Allen West is a disgrace.

[SFC Ollie]

Short of treason, no one who has served in the military long enough to reach the rank of LTC is a disgrace. Being in the military is no guarantee of not making mistakes. Did West make a mistake? Certainly he did, and the fact that he retired rather than face a court martial shows that he knows he did.

Pathetic that someone would call him a disgrace.

Actually he was offered a deal of retiring or being charged. He chose to fight the charge He could have easily faced court martial. It was his commanders decision to then offer him that article 15 which he accepted.

And after that he made the decision to retire. But it was his decision.

 

[TheBrain]

Short of treason, no one who has served in the military long enough to reach the rank of LTC is a disgrace. Being in the military is no guarantee of not making mistakes. Did West make a mistake? Certainly he did, and the fact that he retired rather than face a court martial shows that he knows he did.

Pathetic that someone would call him a disgrace.

Actually he was offered a deal of retiring or being charged. He chose to fight the charge He could have easily faced court martial. It was his commanders decision to then offer him that article 15 which he accepted.

And after that he made the decision to retire. But it was his decision.

Okay I didn't know all of the facts , doesn't change the fact that he is NOT a disgrace as the moron OP suggested.

 

[Jack Fate]

No, he is not a disgrace. I don't care what regulations he broke. When you pissants start laying responsibility where it belongs and condemn the hatred spewing out of the ME then you might have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, kiss my ass and I believe millions of other Americans agree with me.

 

[pinqy]

You are my enemy. I look at you and see the same thing.

And yet I have 23 years of honorable service, my last Article 15 was in 1993 and never followed me past PCS, I've served in Desert Storm and just got back from Afghanistan last year. So if I'm your enemy, whose side are you on?

 

[Jack Fate]

You are my enemy. I look at you and see the same thing.

And yet I have 23 years of honorable service, my last Article 15 was in 1993 and never followed me past PCS, I've served in Desert Storm and just got back from Afghanistan last year. So if I'm your enemy, whose side are you on?

I'm on Alan West's side. Whose side are you on? The muslim terrorist at Ft. Hood wore a US Army uniform also.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Nowhere can you show he was forced to retire.....Nowhere did Odierno say he was forced to retire.....Nowhere in the article 15 proceedings does it say he was forced to retire.

An Article 15 would never say someone was forced to retire. Are you trying to claim it would?

Facts: An Article 15 is a career killer for an O-5.
Relieved of command for cause is a career killer for any officer.

LTC West would never have made Colonel if he had stayed in, certainly never put on a star.

So, faced with a career that will not advance, he retired as soon as possible.

How again is that a free choice and not essentially being force out?

No, Zona and a couple of others are trying to claim that it would......Don't twist my words, I don't play that shit.

I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

 

[pinqy]

[I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Yeah, because you were a PFC. PFCs get Article 15's all the time, and it almost never affects their career. Officers are different, and field grade officers almost never get an Art 15, so you can't even compare. Plus he was relieved for cause. Even without an article 15, that kills an officer's career.

Now if you want to pretend a PFC receiving an article 15 for a minor drug infraction is the same as an LTC being relieved for cause and receiving an art 15 for assault, I ain't buying it, and you can't believe it either.

 

[mudwhistle]

I like American soldiers that try to save lives. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt every time. Alan West is a hero.

That actually brings up the question of whose life he was trying to save. The attacks had been going on for a while. Why did LTC West get involved and order an unauthorized interrogation only after he learned that he was specifically targetted? Why does it seem that right after he learns he's a target for assassination he goes all gung-ho?

But in any case, there's no benefit of the doubt, because there's nothing to doubt.

• He was not authorized to conduct interrogations.
• He had no training or knowledge of interrogations.
• He was not trained in intel at all.
• Hamoodi was detained solely on West's orders, not from S-2 recommendations.
• West committed assault as defined in Art 128.
• No corroboration of anything Hamoodi said was ever found: no weapons, no plans, nothing.

So what benefit of the doubt are you giving? Do you dispute anything in that list?

Did he get a court martial, and was he found guilty?

If not then STFU.

Anyone who attacks him gives comfort to the enemy, which in my book makes them the enemy as well.

 

[MikeK]

I like American soldiers that try to save lives. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt every time. Alan West is a hero.

That actually brings up the question of whose life he was trying to save. The attacks had been going on for a while. Why did LTC West get involved and order an unauthorized interrogation only after he learned that he was specifically targetted? Why does it seem that right after he learns he's a target for assassination he goes all gung-ho?

But in any case, there's no benefit of the doubt, because there's nothing to doubt.

• He was not authorized to conduct interrogations.
• He had no training or knowledge of interrogations.
• He was not trained in intel at all.
• Hamoodi was detained solely on West's orders, not from S-2 recommendations.
• West committed assault as defined in Art 128.
• No corroboration of anything Hamoodi said was ever found: no weapons, no plans, nothing.

So what benefit of the doubt are you giving? Do you dispute anything in that list?

I don't doubt anything on your list. We don't give a damn about your list. You don't get it. Alan West is fighting a vile vicious evil entity. You are my enemy. I look at you and see the same thing.

Who is this "vile, vicious entity?"

If you are capable of abstract reasoning you should understand that the invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and a categorical war crime which real Americans have cause to be ashamed of being deceptively led to allow. There was absolutely nothing defensive or justifiable about it.

George W. Bush's war crime has already cost well over 4,000 American lives and caused the maiming of tens of thousands more. It now is exposing more of our troops to the risks inherent in imposing occupation on a people who never did a goddam thing to us. Now, if you are capable of understanding that you should be capable of understanding that there are Iraqi patriots who are doing to our troops what many American patriots would be doing to Iraqi soldiers if the situation were reversed.

So the bottom line in this discussion is you are your own enemy and you're doing your best to not know it. Alan West is an ambitious grandstander who had absolutely no business doing what he did. And sooner or later some G.I.(s) will pay the price for his audacity.

 

[Jack Fate]

That actually brings up the question of whose life he was trying to save. The attacks had been going on for a while. Why did LTC West get involved and order an unauthorized interrogation only after he learned that he was specifically targetted? Why does it seem that right after he learns he's a target for assassination he goes all gung-ho?

But in any case, there's no benefit of the doubt, because there's nothing to doubt.

• He was not authorized to conduct interrogations.
• He had no training or knowledge of interrogations.
• He was not trained in intel at all.
• Hamoodi was detained solely on West's orders, not from S-2 recommendations.
• West committed assault as defined in Art 128.
• No corroboration of anything Hamoodi said was ever found: no weapons, no plans, nothing.

So what benefit of the doubt are you giving? Do you dispute anything in that list?

I don't doubt anything on your list. We don't give a damn about your list. You don't get it. Alan West is fighting a vile vicious evil entity. You are my enemy. I look at you and see the same thing.

Who is this "vile, vicious entity?"

If you are capable of abstract reasoning you should understand that the invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and a categorical war crime which real Americans have cause to be ashamed of being deceptively led to allow. There was absolutely nothing defensive or justifiable about it.

George W. Bush's war crime has already cost well over 4,000 American lives and caused the maiming of tens of thousands more. It now is exposing more of our troops to the risks inherent in imposing occupation on a people who never did a goddam thing to us. Now, if you are capable of understanding that you should be capable of understanding that there are Iraqi patriots who are doing to our troops what many American patriots would be doing to Iraqi soldiers if the situation were reversed.

So the bottom line in this discussion is you are your own enemy and you're doing your best to not know it. Alan West is an ambitious grandstander who had absolutely no business doing what he did. And sooner or later some G.I.(s) will pay the price for his audacity.

Come back when you find out who the vile vicious enemy is. If you don't know who your enemy is then how can I expect you to carry on an intelligent conversation? Duh! Go play games with someone else.

 

[Zona]

I like American soldiers that try to save lives. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt every time. Alan West is a hero.

That actually brings up the question of whose life he was trying to save. The attacks had been going on for a while. Why did LTC West get involved and order an unauthorized interrogation only after he learned that he was specifically targetted? Why does it seem that right after he learns he's a target for assassination he goes all gung-ho?

But in any case, there's no benefit of the doubt, because there's nothing to doubt.

• He was not authorized to conduct interrogations.
• He had no training or knowledge of interrogations.
• He was not trained in intel at all.
• Hamoodi was detained solely on West's orders, not from S-2 recommendations.
• West committed assault as defined in Art 128.
• No corroboration of anything Hamoodi said was ever found: no weapons, no plans, nothing.

So what benefit of the doubt are you giving? Do you dispute anything in that list?

Did he get a court martial, and was he found guilty?

If not then STFU.

Anyone who attacks him gives comfort to the enemy, which in my book makes them the enemy as well.

The Army "attacked" him and found him guilty of two violations. Are they the enemy?

You know how dumb you look here.

 

[Zona]

Nowhere can you show he was forced to retire.....Nowhere did Odierno say he was forced to retire.....Nowhere in the article 15 proceedings does it say he was forced to retire.

An Article 15 would never say someone was forced to retire. Are you trying to claim it would?

Facts: An Article 15 is a career killer for an O-5.
Relieved of command for cause is a career killer for any officer.

LTC West would never have made Colonel if he had stayed in, certainly never put on a star.

So, faced with a career that will not advance, he retired as soon as possible.

How again is that a free choice and not essentially being force out?

No, Zona and a couple of others are trying to claim that it would......Don't twist my words, I don't play that shit.

I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Are you drunk? Oh and if they found weed residue in your possession, and you were not kicked out, I have to ask you..how long ago did this happen? I know they immediately gave you a urinalysis test. How did you do? You got into ranger school with a drug hit on your record? Really? Damn. When your record came up on a board for advancement, and they saw you (as a kid) had a drug hit on your record, this didnt have any affect on their decision when they were considering you for advancement to E-7 or above? REally? They are sitting at an advancement board and you have a drug hit, and they advanced you? I have 20 years in and I have never heard of such a thing. AGain, I have to ask, what year was this? I retired in 04, so maybe this was way way before my time.

ed.

I just spoke with a buddy who Just retired...He is/was a NCCS (Navy) and he said this about your situation...

Ya... drug bust then special forces seems a little weird..... but hey... we've been at war for several years now... with some of those guys on their 7th or 8th tour... wouldn't be surprised at the leniency when it comes to programs and retention... but it does seem a bit weird.


He is under the impression this just happened to you. I am thinking this happened years ago (you attempting to get into the rangers). Could you clear this up please?

 

[Zona]

[I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Yeah, because you were a PFC. PFCs get Article 15's all the time, and it almost never affects their career. Officers are different, and field grade officers almost never get an Art 15, so you can't even compare. Plus he was relieved for cause. Even without an article 15, that kills an officer's career.

Now if you want to pretend a PFC receiving an article 15 for a minor drug infraction is the same as an LTC being relieved for cause and receiving an art 15 for assault, I ain't buying it, and you can't believe it either.

Have you ever seen an officer who was relieved of command ever get promoted? I haven't. I guess its possible but West knew he had to retire since he was guilty of assault.

He is a disgrace.

 

[TheBrain]

An Article 15 would never say someone was forced to retire. Are you trying to claim it would?

Facts: An Article 15 is a career killer for an O-5.
Relieved of command for cause is a career killer for any officer.

LTC West would never have made Colonel if he had stayed in, certainly never put on a star.

So, faced with a career that will not advance, he retired as soon as possible.

How again is that a free choice and not essentially being force out?

No, Zona and a couple of others are trying to claim that it would......Don't twist my words, I don't play that shit.

I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Are you drunk? Oh and if they found weed residue in your possession, and you were not kicked out, I have to ask you..how long ago did this happen? I know they immediately gave you a urinalysis test. How did you do? You got into ranger school with a drug hit on your record? Really? Damn. When your record came up on a board for advancement, and they saw you (as a kid) had a drug hit on your record, this didnt have any affect on their decision when they were considering you for advancement to E-7 or above? REally? They are sitting at an advancement board and you have a drug hit, and they advanced you? I have 20 years in and I have never heard of such a thing. AGain, I have to ask, what year was this? I retired in 04, so maybe this was way way before my time.

ed.

I just spoke with a buddy who Just retired...He is/was a NCCS (Navy) and he said this about your situation...

Ya... drug bust then special forces seems a little weird..... but hey... we've been at war for several years now... with some of those guys on their 7th or 8th tour... wouldn't be surprised at the leniency when it comes to programs and retention... but it does seem a bit weird.


He is under the impression this just happened to you. I am thinking this happened years ago (you attempting to get into the rangers). Could you clear this up please?

You seem awful concerned with another poster's private life.

 

[slukasiewski]

[I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Yeah, because you were a PFC. PFCs get Article 15's all the time, and it almost never affects their career. Officers are different, and field grade officers almost never get an Art 15, so you can't even compare. Plus he was relieved for cause. Even without an article 15, that kills an officer's career.

Now if you want to pretend a PFC receiving an article 15 for a minor drug infraction is the same as an LTC being relieved for cause and receiving an art 15 for assault, I ain't buying it, and you can't believe it either.

Have you ever seen an officer who was relieved of command ever get promoted? I haven't. I guess its possible but West knew he had to retire since he was guilty of assault.

He is a disgrace.

A disgrace to whom? You? If that's the case, do you think he gives a ****? He was Art. 15'd. As severe as a speeding ticket. It's not on his permanent record. It's Non-Judicial punishment. So please - shut your racist pie-hole. Just becuase the man is black doesn't give trailer-trash like you a license to bash him.

Speaking of disgrace, when/where did you serve, BTW?

 

[Zona]

No, Zona and a couple of others are trying to claim that it would......Don't twist my words, I don't play that shit.

I received an article 15 at Ft. Wainwright Alaska for three weed seeds on my baracks room floor as a young PFC, that were sniffed out by a loadie dog.....Received a fine of half months pay, and 45 days extra duty cleaning offices at Battalion HQ. I was allowed to maintain my rank for the simple fact that I was honest, and didn't try to lie my way out of it....It had no effect on attending any advancement schools like RANGER, NCO, ETC., nor did it hinder making further rank.

Are you drunk? Oh and if they found weed residue in your possession, and you were not kicked out, I have to ask you..how long ago did this happen? I know they immediately gave you a urinalysis test. How did you do? You got into ranger school with a drug hit on your record? Really? Damn. When your record came up on a board for advancement, and they saw you (as a kid) had a drug hit on your record, this didnt have any affect on their decision when they were considering you for advancement to E-7 or above? REally? They are sitting at an advancement board and you have a drug hit, and they advanced you? I have 20 years in and I have never heard of such a thing. AGain, I have to ask, what year was this? I retired in 04, so maybe this was way way before my time.

ed.

I just spoke with a buddy who Just retired...He is/was a NCCS (Navy) and he said this about your situation...

Ya... drug bust then special forces seems a little weird..... but hey... we've been at war for several years now... with some of those guys on their 7th or 8th tour... wouldn't be surprised at the leniency when it comes to programs and retention... but it does seem a bit weird.


He is under the impression this just happened to you. I am thinking this happened years ago (you attempting to get into the rangers). Could you clear this up please?

You seem awful concerned with another poster's private life.

Hi skippy. He posted what happened to him on a bulletin board. A BULLETIN BOARD. He said he was guilty of a drug infringement while he was in the military. ON A BULLETIN BOARD. I commented on it. Thanks for playing.

 

[TheBrain]

Are you drunk? Oh and if they found weed residue in your possession, and you were not kicked out, I have to ask you..how long ago did this happen? I know they immediately gave you a urinalysis test. How did you do? You got into ranger school with a drug hit on your record? Really? Damn. When your record came up on a board for advancement, and they saw you (as a kid) had a drug hit on your record, this didnt have any affect on their decision when they were considering you for advancement to E-7 or above? REally? They are sitting at an advancement board and you have a drug hit, and they advanced you? I have 20 years in and I have never heard of such a thing. AGain, I have to ask, what year was this? I retired in 04, so maybe this was way way before my time.

ed.

I just spoke with a buddy who Just retired...He is/was a NCCS (Navy) and he said this about your situation...

Ya... drug bust then special forces seems a little weird..... but hey... we've been at war for several years now... with some of those guys on their 7th or 8th tour... wouldn't be surprised at the leniency when it comes to programs and retention... but it does seem a bit weird.


He is under the impression this just happened to you. I am thinking this happened years ago (you attempting to get into the rangers). Could you clear this up please?

You seem awful concerned with another poster's private life.

Hi skippy. He posted what happened to him on a bulletin board. A BULLETIN BOARD. He said he was guilty of a drug infringement while he was in the military. ON A BULLETIN BOARD. I commented on it. Thanks for playing.

You did more than that. You apparently are so concerned that you talked to a friend about, then you came back here digging for more information. Now I don't really care, it just seems like obsessive type behavior, I for one cease to think about posters on a message board the moment I click the X, so don't understand taking a message board conversation into my real life. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Zona]

Yeah, because you were a PFC. PFCs get Article 15's all the time, and it almost never affects their career. Officers are different, and field grade officers almost never get an Art 15, so you can't even compare. Plus he was relieved for cause. Even without an article 15, that kills an officer's career.

Now if you want to pretend a PFC receiving an article 15 for a minor drug infraction is the same as an LTC being relieved for cause and receiving an art 15 for assault, I ain't buying it, and you can't believe it either.

Have you ever seen an officer who was relieved of command ever get promoted? I haven't. I guess its possible but West knew he had to retire since he was guilty of assault.

He is a disgrace.

A disgrace to whom? You? If that's the case, do you think he gives a ****? He was Art. 15'd. As severe as a speeding ticket. It's not on his permanent record. It's Non-Judicial punishment. So please - shut your racist pie-hole. Just becuase the man is black doesn't give trailer-trash like you a license to bash him.

Speaking of disgrace, when/where did you serve, BTW?

Do you not get it. He was booted out and fined 5k. because he was guilty of assult (He lost his command because of it). This is a speeding ticket?

Seriously, respond to what I just posted...he was given a choice, retire, get fined 5k or face courts martial and face 10 years.

He lost his command, he was guilty of assult and was fined 5k on his way out the door. You considder this a traffic ticket? He is a ******* disgrace.

Damn...Oh and I was Navy....(aviation side) 84-04 since you asked.

 

[slukasiewski]

Have you ever seen an officer who was relieved of command ever get promoted? I haven't. I guess its possible but West knew he had to retire since he was guilty of assault.

He is a disgrace.

A disgrace to whom? You? If that's the case, do you think he gives a ****? He was Art. 15'd. As severe as a speeding ticket. It's not on his permanent record. It's Non-Judicial punishment. So please - shut your racist pie-hole. Just becuase the man is black doesn't give trailer-trash like you a license to bash him.

Speaking of disgrace, when/where did you serve, BTW?

Do you not get it. He was booted out and fined 5k. because he was guilty of assult (He lost his command because of it). This is a speeding ticket?

Seriously, respond to what I just posted...he was given a choice, retire, get fined 5k or face courts martial and face 10 years.

He lost his command, he was guilty of assult and was fined 5k on his way out the door. You considder this a traffic ticket? He is a ******* disgrace.

Damn...Oh and I was Navy....(aviation side) 84-04 since you asked.

Well, brown shoe - any dummy in the military knows an article 15/NJP/Mast doesn't carry over onto one's civilian record.

Well, at least most dummies know this.

There are exceptions.

 

[MikeK]

Are you drunk? Oh and if they found weed residue in your possession, and you were not kicked out, I have to ask you..how long ago did this happen? I know they immediately gave you a urinalysis test. How did you do? You got into ranger school with a drug hit on your record? Really? Damn. When your record came up on a board for advancement, and they saw you (as a kid) had a drug hit on your record, this didnt have any affect on their decision when they were considering you for advancement to E-7 or above? REally? They are sitting at an advancement board and you have a drug hit, and they advanced you? I have 20 years in and I have never heard of such a thing. AGain, I have to ask, what year was this? I retired in 04, so maybe this was way way before my time.

ed.

I just spoke with a buddy who Just retired...He is/was a NCCS (Navy) and he said this about your situation...

Ya... drug bust then special forces seems a little weird..... but hey... we've been at war for several years now... with some of those guys on their 7th or 8th tour... wouldn't be surprised at the leniency when it comes to programs and retention... but it does seem a bit weird.


He is under the impression this just happened to you. I am thinking this happened years ago (you attempting to get into the rangers). Could you clear this up please?

Zona,

The only reason I see this message by Wicked Jester is it's contained within yours. He's been on my Ignore list for some time now and it's saved many pages of space and wasted time. He likes to sling shit and I have him pegged as an adolescent masturbator who reads a lot of Tom Clancy-type material and talks to people on-line the way he wouldn't dare in face-to-face transactions.

He is a stereotype. They're all the same and they are what the Ignore feature was designed for.

Regards.