Allen West is a disgrace.

[The T]

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

I have serious issues with the Rules of Engagement of this Administration.

I imagine West did too. Anyone with any decency about them would.

They are designed to handcuff the troops, draw out the war, discredit the troops, embarrass this nation.....etc.

And part of what Obama's "World Apology Tour '09" was all about.

 

[TheBrain]

Who said anything about an article 15 following one into a civilian life? I said he was guilty of assult, lost his command and was charged 5k on his way out the door. West went out in disgrace. Any military officer or senior enlisted member will tell you if you lose your command, you are disgraced.

What the hell are you talking about?

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

 

[Liberty]

Haha this thread really lured the leftist racists out of the woodwork.

 

[mudwhistle]

Haha this thread really lured the leftist racists out of the woodwork.

Funny thing is....none of us have called them bigots or racists for attacking Col West when we could have.

Guess we don't want to act like the always do.

 

[MikeK]

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

The word disgrace has acquired a certain moral connotation that makes it seem inappropriate as used in the example of LtCol. West's conduct. But according to Webster's Collegiate the flexibility of the word disgrace shows it to be perfectly allowable in that example. (See option 1):

disgrace (dis gras)

n.

1 the state of being in disfavor, as because of bad conduct

2 loss of favor or respect; public dishonor; ignominy; disrepute; shame

3 a person or thing that brings shame, dishonor, or reproach (to one, etc.)

vt.

-graced, -gracing [Fr disgracier < It disgraziare < the n.]

1 to bring shame or dishonor upon; be a discredit to; be unworthy of [to disgrace one's family]

2 to dismiss from a position of favor; punish by degrading; humiliate

Etymology

[Fr disgrace < It disgrazia < dis- (L dis-), not + grazia, favor < L gratia: see grace]

 

[TheBrain]

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

The word disgrace has acquired a certain moral connotation that makes it seem inappropriate as used in the example of LtCol. West's conduct. But according to Webster's Collegiate the flexibility of the word disgrace shows it to be perfectly allowable in that example. (See option 1):

disgrace (dis gras)

n.

1 the state of being in disfavor, as because of bad conduct

2 loss of favor or respect; public dishonor; ignominy; disrepute; shame

3 a person or thing that brings shame, dishonor, or reproach (to one, etc.)

vt.

-graced, -gracing [Fr disgracier < It disgraziare < the n.]

1 to bring shame or dishonor upon; be a discredit to; be unworthy of [to disgrace one's family]

2 to dismiss from a position of favor; punish by degrading; humiliate

Etymology

[Fr disgrace < It disgrazia < dis- (L dis-), not + grazia, favor < L gratia: see grace]

Correct, which makes the act that earned him the Article 15 disgraceful. I doubt anyone would argue that. It does NOT make the MAN who committed the act a disgrace though. In the grand scheme of things it was a relatively minor transgression.

 

[The T]

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

Board Rules prohibit any more REP...from me to you...

 

[Bass v 2.0]

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

I served as an officer and when officers are passed up for promotion or screw up they are forced to basically get out, in West's case he broke the rules, plain and simple so he had to go, he was relieved of command and when you get relieved your days are over, stop making excuses for West.

 

[westwall]

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

I served as an officer and when officers are passed up for promotion or screw up they are forced to basically get out, in West's case he broke the rules, plain and simple so he had to go, he was relieved of command and when you get relieved your days are over, stop making excuses for West.

So what did you do to get booted?

 

[TheBrain]

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

I served as an officer and when officers are passed up for promotion or screw up they are forced to basically get out, in West's case he broke the rules, plain and simple so he had to go, he was relieved of command and when you get relieved your days are over, stop making excuses for West.

Completely inaccurate. Officers can survive being passed over for one promotion. Usually they can't survive a second pass over. Also there are varying degrees of screwing up, and not all of them result in being asked to resign.

Also, I made NO attempt to defend West, in fact quite the opposite I quite clearly said that IMO his actions were wrong.

 

[The Gadfly]

He has an honorable discharge hanging.
Sorry if MSNBC has you brainwashed otherwise.
I can't cure stupid.

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

I have serious issues with the Rules of Engagement of this Administration.

I imagine West did too. Anyone with any decency about them would.

They are designed to handcuff the troops, draw out the war, discredit the troops, embarrass this nation.....etc.

Precisely! One rule of thumb to keep in mind here; the more any ROE defy common sense, and/or are ridiculously impracticable, the more likely it is that said ROE will be violated. Troops are not the "brain-dead robots" the left likes to think they are, and they are not stupid, either. In fairness, Rumsfeld and Co. weren't much better at understanding that, than the current bunch.

 

[Jroc]

This is why the left wants to hates Allen West, it has nothing to do with what he did in Iraq they just use that as a means to discredit him he is a threat to them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XTscyMtMg&playnext=1&list=PL33A7A4EDBD3135FB]YouTube - Allen West --"I'm the Liberals' Worst Nightmare"[/ame]

 

[Bass v 2.0]

This is why the left wants to hates Allen West, it has nothing to do with what he did in Iraq they just use that as a means to discredit him he is a threat to them.

YouTube - Allen West --"I'm the Liberals' Worst Nightmare"

Thats about the most retarded and stupid explanation I've seen anyone post, at first there is no reason to attack Palin, the left is just scared of her, and now Allen West is all so good, the left is also just scared of him, what the hell does anyone have to fear from a fly in a batch of buttermilk in the Republitard party who is anti-Islamic and has nothing more but a big mouth? Actions put people in fear, not big mouths who just talk and talk, West will never get any significant, if any, support from blacks and the only support from whites he'll get are fringe retards just as looney as himself so what is there to fear jackass?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Yes, I know he went out with an honorable forced discharge...but here is the ting. Ask any military person if a officer is made..forced to give up his command and then forced to retire and be fined 5k, if that officer is disgraced. Honorable discharge or not.

If you dont mention names and just those facts, see what they say.

I have serious issues with the Rules of Engagement of this Administration.

I imagine West did too. Anyone with any decency about them would.

They are designed to handcuff the troops, draw out the war, discredit the troops, embarrass this nation.....etc.

Precisely! One rule of thumb to keep in mind here; the more any ROE defy common sense, and/or are ridiculously impracticable, the more likely it is that said ROE will be violated. Troops are not the "brain-dead robots" the left likes to think they are, and they are not stupid, either. In fairness, Rumsfeld and Co. weren't much better at understanding that, than the current bunch.

Apparently you have a problem with understanding how the military works, West was a commander of a battalion and had never conducted interrogations, nor was it his job to do so and it is not up to the soldiers on the ground to decided which ROE they will and will not follow, orders are orders and West disobeyed orders and broke the UCMJ, you never do that especially when you are a commander of an battalion sized element and also when its not your expertise and job, thats why he lost his job, jackass.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

You say you've served? If that's true, then you would know that MANY officers are "forced" to retire for many reasons, and that they are not always "disgraced" as you put it.

Certainly West's chances for advancement would have been nil after the Article 15. But he probably could have survived and served until his next promotion board at which time the Army would have told him it was time for him to move on; which they may or may not have done irrespective of the Article 15, just depends on whether he was eligible for promotion and there was a spot for him to move up to anyway.

The point is officers resign everyday with the understanding that even though they are resigning they didn't really have a choice in the matter and it isn't disgraceful.

I won't question your service, because only a total scumbag loser would EVER question another person's military service without cold concrete fact that they are lying, but I will question whether you are being honest here. I think you KNOW that an officer can be forced to resign without it being disgraceful.

I served as an officer and when officers are passed up for promotion or screw up they are forced to basically get out, in West's case he broke the rules, plain and simple so he had to go, he was relieved of command and when you get relieved your days are over, stop making excuses for West.

Completely inaccurate. Officers can survive being passed over for one promotion. Usually they can't survive a second pass over. Also there are varying degrees of screwing up, and not all of them result in being asked to resign.

Also, I made NO attempt to defend West, in fact quite the opposite I quite clearly said that IMO his actions were wrong.

In this modern military in West's case, once you get a relieved for cause you will be passed over and will never get promoted, thats just the way the military works. The military is ultra competitive and either you get it right the first time or you're out especially field grade officers.

 

[Jroc]

This is why the left wants to hates Allen West, it has nothing to do with what he did in Iraq they just use that as a means to discredit him he is a threat to them.

YouTube - Allen West --"I'm the Liberals' Worst Nightmare"

Thats about the most retarded and stupid explanation I've seen anyone post, at first there is no reason to attack Palin, the left is just scared of her, and now Allen West is all so good, the left is also just scared of him, what the hell does anyone have to fear from a fly in a batch of buttermilk in the Republitard party who is anti-Islamic and has nothing more but a big mouth? Actions put people in fear, not big mouths who just talk and talk, West will never get any significant, if any, support from blacks and the only support from whites he'll get are fringe retards just as looney as himself so what is there to fear jackass?

Not getting support from idiots like you is a resume enhancement.. And if you think Allen West would not get significant African American support your defiantly clueless

 

[Bass v 2.0]

This is why the left wants to hates Allen West, it has nothing to do with what he did in Iraq they just use that as a means to discredit him he is a threat to them.

YouTube - Allen West --"I'm the Liberals' Worst Nightmare"

Thats about the most retarded and stupid explanation I've seen anyone post, at first there is no reason to attack Palin, the left is just scared of her, and now Allen West is all so good, the left is also just scared of him, what the hell does anyone have to fear from a fly in a batch of buttermilk in the Republitard party who is anti-Islamic and has nothing more but a big mouth? Actions put people in fear, not big mouths who just talk and talk, West will never get any significant, if any, support from blacks and the only support from whites he'll get are fringe retards just as looney as himself so what is there to fear jackass?

Not getting support from idiots like you is a resume enhancement.. And if you think Allen West would not get significant African American support your defiantly clueless

He would not and is not getting any significant African American support, hardly any black media outlets cover anything he says or even sees him as relevant, thats a sure sign that he isn't and that you're a retard who who doesn't know African Americans. Dumb retard.

 

[Jroc]

Thats about the most retarded and stupid explanation I've seen anyone post, at first there is no reason to attack Palin, the left is just scared of her, and now Allen West is all so good, the left is also just scared of him, what the hell does anyone have to fear from a fly in a batch of buttermilk in the Republitard party who is anti-Islamic and has nothing more but a big mouth? Actions put people in fear, not big mouths who just talk and talk, West will never get any significant, if any, support from blacks and the only support from whites he'll get are fringe retards just as looney as himself so what is there to fear jackass?

Not getting support from idiots like you is a resume enhancement.. And if you think Allen West would not get significant African American support your defiantly clueless

He would not and is not getting any significant African American support, hardly any black media outlets cover anything he says or even sees him as relevant, thats a sure sign that he isn't and that you're a retard who who doesn't know African Americans. Dumb retard.

Please..."black media outlets" give me a break they are bought and paid for by the libs, and you don't know who I know alright? I could walk into a room filled with African Americans and blend right in I might be a little light skin but other then that no problem

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Not getting support from idiots like you is a resume enhancement.. And if you think Allen West would not get significant African American support your defiantly clueless

He would not and is not getting any significant African American support, hardly any black media outlets cover anything he says or even sees him as relevant, thats a sure sign that he isn't and that you're a retard who who doesn't know African Americans. Dumb retard.

Please..."black media outlets" give me a break they are bought and paid for by the libs, and you don't know who I know alright? I could walk into a room filled with African Americans and blend right in I might be a little light skin but other then that no problem

my point stands, West will and would never get a significant amount of the black vote, I don't give a damn where you would blend in at, there are plenty of house Negroes who don't know anything about African Americans and you are no different from them if you think most black voters would vote for West. He didn't get a significant amount of the black vote during his election then and would get any now.

 

[Jroc]

He would not and is not getting any significant African American support, hardly any black media outlets cover anything he says or even sees him as relevant, thats a sure sign that he isn't and that you're a retard who who doesn't know African Americans. Dumb retard.

Please..."black media outlets" give me a break they are bought and paid for by the libs, and you don't know who I know alright? I could walk into a room filled with African Americans and blend right in I might be a little light skin but other then that no problem

my point stands, West will and would never get a significant amount of the black vote, I don't give a damn where you would blend in at, there are plenty of house Negroes who don't know anything about African Americans and you are no different from them if you think most black voters would vote for West. He didn't get a significant amount of the black vote during his election then and would get any now.

I never said most, I said a significant amount, and I never heard of "house Negroes' If you used that term to any of my friends in Detroit, I guarantee you you’re ass would be stomped.