All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Willing to live in peace (Not Arab Palestinians)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Neither has any authority over Palestine's borders.

(COMMENT)

You (in some very strange way) have your concept twisted backward.

◈ The Israelis establish the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

◈ The Jordanians establish the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

◈ A peaceful agreement between the Israelis and the Jordanian establish the common demarcation between the territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

Now you are talking about the Arab Palestinians. I don't see where the Arab Palestinians established the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule. The old demarcations that established the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were the British and the French. Their authority came from the Principle Allied Powers, and the demarcation was authorized to be established within such boundaries as may be fixed by them.

The territorial boundaries came from the British and the French. NOT from the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians WERE NOT involved with the decisions behind ANY territorial integrity nor any ground truth for the extension of sovereign rule.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, however, the powers decided to create new states with the ceded territories. They laid out those new states according to international law. They defined the international borders. The people became nationals and citizens of their respective territories. They created the Mandate system to assist those new states to independence.

No foreign power has any authority to change any of that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Do you mean that fake state inside those fake armistice lines?

Link?

Look at any map of your so called Israel. Its supposed territory is defined by the 1949 UN armistice lines. Those lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Where are Israel's real borders?

Israel’s real borders are the ones that are defined by treaties with Jordan and Egypt. Interesting how no mention of Palestine was in there

Edit: forgot to mention how Israel’s borders are internationally recognized. Palestine however, does not have borders .. what a shame .

Palestine however, does not have borders

It depends on who you ask.

No. It doesn’t.

Who asked you?

The Zionists have been trying to disappear Palestine for over a hundred years. The Palestinians aren't buying it.

The Palestinians aren't buying it.

Exactly!
The Palestinians have been disappearing themselves just fine.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: No country east of the Suez Canal/Gulf and the Red Sea was acquired without a military confrontation.

At one time, during the early 20th Century, nearly half of the Levant (south of Aleppo • north of Aqaba) was under The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). And all of that half of the Levant (formerly under the OETA) established independence, except for the (greedy and uncooperative) West Bank and Gaza Strip.

They were both military occupations. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

Your blanket statement is just too broad.

terra nullius ‘The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection
with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over
territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty
over territory otherwise than by cession or succession, it was a cardinal condition of a valid
“occupation” that the territory should be terra nullius — a territory belonging to no-one—at
the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation” . . .’:
SOURCE: Parry & Grant encyclopaedic dictionary of international law / John P. Grant and
J. Craig Barker. -- 3rd ed. Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc

In the case of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, both were militarily occupied by elements of the Arab League, before the Israelis. When the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, in 1988, it was a peaceful transition. When the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, it was left to the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[toastman]

The amount of time the Palestinians have lied and only told half the story makes your article not believable . Palestinians and lies to hand in hand (as does propaganda , falsifying information; playing the victim etc....)

 

[Hollie]

Whatever happened to Shirley Temper appearing for a contrived photo op? I suppose at 11 years old she was useful to the gee-had. Now, not so much.

 

[Hollie]

Well, once again, we westerners fail to understand that our welfare dollars showered on Islamic terrorists only serves to aid and abet the Islamic gee-had.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Whatever happened to Shirley Temper appearing for a contrived photo op? I suppose at 11 years old she was useful to the gee-had. Now, not so much.

She is still out there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian Elections: Abbas faces ‘revolt’ over Fatah’s electoral list

Some Palestinians said on Saturday that the mounting tensions marked the beginning of an unprecedented mutiny against Abbas and the veteran Fatah leadership.

www.jpost.com

 

[Hollie]

Whatever happened to Shirley Temper appearing for a contrived photo op? I suppose at 11 years old she was useful to the gee-had. Now, not so much.

She is still out there.

Still being exploited.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Interesting → I wonder if the people are walking up?

Palestinian Elections: Abbas faces ‘revolt’ over Fatah’s electoral list

Some Palestinians said on Saturday that the mounting tensions marked the beginning of an unprecedented mutiny against Abbas and the veteran Fatah leadership.

www.jpost.com

(COMMENT)

We will have to wait and see...

She is still out there.

(COMMENT)

Ahed Tamimi is just trying to capitalize on her 15 minutes of fame. But is she actually a force for good, or merely a means of incitement?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Willing to live in peace (Not Arab Palestinians)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Neither has any authority over Palestine's borders.

(COMMENT)

You (in some very strange way) have your concept twisted backward.

◈ The Israelis establish the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

◈ The Jordanians establish the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

◈ A peaceful agreement between the Israelis and the Jordanian establish the common demarcation between the territory over which they extend sovereign rule.​

Now you are talking about the Arab Palestinians. I don't see where the Arab Palestinians established the ground truth for territory over which they extend sovereign rule. The old demarcations that established the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, were the British and the French. Their authority came from the Principle Allied Powers, and the demarcation was authorized to be established within such boundaries as may be fixed by them.

The territorial boundaries came from the British and the French. NOT from the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians WERE NOT involved with the decisions behind ANY territorial integrity nor any ground truth for the extension of sovereign rule.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, however, the powers decided to create new states with the ceded territories. They laid out those new states according to international law. They defined the international borders. The people became nationals and citizens of their respective territories. They created the Mandate system to assist those new states to independence.

No foreign power has any authority to change any of that.

Indeed, what ''new states''?

This ''new states'' conspiracy theory you fixate on is rather silly. This conspiracy theory is one you have promoted for years even though debunked.

You can't identify these ''new states'' so isn't it about time to stop the nonsense?

 

[toastman]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Willing to live in peace (Not Arab Palestinians)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have absolutely nothing to do with the former Armistice Agreement. In the case of the 1949 Armistice Agreements, they were between the "military commands" of Israel and the commands of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to any of the four agreements.

Look at any map of your so called Israel. Its supposed territory is defined by the 1949 UN armistice lines. Those lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Where are Israel's real borders?

(COMMENT)

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan. The Peace Treaty (Israel-Jordan) was signed on 26 October 1994. THEN the Oslo Accord II (Israel-Palestine Liberation Organization {PLO}) was agreed on 28 September 1995 (after the Israeli-Jordan Treaty).

The Israeli-Jordan Treaty ignored any prior claim on the territory formerly sovereign to Jordan. Jordan agreed the boundary between Israel and Jordan would be recognized as an "administrative boundary between" Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”

The PLO never entered into good-faith talks on the Permanent Status of Negotiations (including "settlements").

You can forget the Armistice Lines (except for historical reference purposes). The Armistice lines were only in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved (Article XII(2) of the Armistice Agreement) → 26 October 1994. On that date, the new agreement on the International Boundary took effect.

On the matter of the Gaza Strip, the Israelis unilaterally withdrew leaving the territory to the powers that be. The official blockade of Blockade of Gaza Strip took effect on January 2009, as an entirely separate action.

The blockade was established on similar grounds to Item 13, Part II Measures to prevent and combat terrorism, Annex Plan of Action to A/RES/60/288:

To step up national efforts and bilateral, subregional, regional and international cooperation, as appropriate, to improve border and customs controls in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives.​

Most Respectfully,
R

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan.

Neither has any authority over Palestine's borders.

What borders ? How can a mythical country have borders? Israel has internationally recognized borders which has been proven countless times to you with links.
If Palestine had borders, what are they and when did they become a reality ? Link ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Willing to live in peace (Not Arab Palestinians)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have absolutely nothing to do with the former Armistice Agreement. In the case of the 1949 Armistice Agreements, they were between the "military commands" of Israel and the commands of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to any of the four agreements.

Look at any map of your so called Israel. Its supposed territory is defined by the 1949 UN armistice lines. Those lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Where are Israel's real borders?

(COMMENT)

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan. The Peace Treaty (Israel-Jordan) was signed on 26 October 1994. THEN the Oslo Accord II (Israel-Palestine Liberation Organization {PLO}) was agreed on 28 September 1995 (after the Israeli-Jordan Treaty).

The Israeli-Jordan Treaty ignored any prior claim on the territory formerly sovereign to Jordan. Jordan agreed the boundary between Israel and Jordan would be recognized as an "administrative boundary between" Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”

The PLO never entered into good-faith talks on the Permanent Status of Negotiations (including "settlements").

You can forget the Armistice Lines (except for historical reference purposes). The Armistice lines were only in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved (Article XII(2) of the Armistice Agreement) → 26 October 1994. On that date, the new agreement on the International Boundary took effect.

On the matter of the Gaza Strip, the Israelis unilaterally withdrew leaving the territory to the powers that be. The official blockade of Blockade of Gaza Strip took effect on January 2009, as an entirely separate action.

The blockade was established on similar grounds to Item 13, Part II Measures to prevent and combat terrorism, Annex Plan of Action to A/RES/60/288:

To step up national efforts and bilateral, subregional, regional and international cooperation, as appropriate, to improve border and customs controls in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives.​

Most Respectfully,
R

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan.

Neither has any authority over Palestine's borders.

What borders ? How can a mythical country have borders? Israel has internationally recognized borders which has been proven countless times to you with links.
If Palestine had borders, what are they and when did they become a reality ? Link ?

I have posted links so many times yet you continue to ask the same stupid question.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Demarcations
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: He is trying to use the "Nationality" Subsection (Treaty of Lausanne) as a tool to override the "Territorial" Subsection. And he is trying to use the boundaries agreed upon in the Franco-British Convention of 23 December 1920 (ie the agreement between the British and the French) as a permanent and immutable international border to override the current international agreements concluded between Israel and the current adjacent states (see Notes below) which are governed by international law [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969)]. It is simply a very bad argument.

"Nationality" Subsection = Section II • Article 30​

"Territorial" Subsection = Section I • Article 16​

I have posted links so many times yet you continue to ask the same stupid question.

(COMMENT)

No matter what any agreement said prior to the implementation of the International Instruments Concerning Israel and the Current Adjacent States in force today, NOTHING changes the Demarcations the adjacent states actually enforce today (the ground truth).

None of the agreements set a century ago, concerning the Territory formerly subject to the Mandate for Palestine, has lasted or remained unchanged.

In regards to the "Stupid Question" remark: I would argue that it is YOU that has been NOT listening or paying attention, to the opposing respondents and their citations. If there is a "DOOFUS" (a stupid person) in this discussion and engaged, it certainly is not "toastman" or "Hollie."

Most Respectfully,
R

NOTES .

Current International Instruments Concerning Israel and the Current Adjacent States. See Posting #300, in the Discussion Thread "Debates."

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​

◈ Golan Heights Law •​

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace •​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

◈ Lebanese Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​

See Posting 631, RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
See Posting 18112 RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
See Posting # 78 RE: Israel's Lies

 

[P F Tinmore]

In regards to the "Stupid Question" remark: I would argue that it is YOU that has been NOT listening or paying attention, to the opposing respondents and their citations.

Foreign powers have no authority over international borders. Territorial integrity.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Willing to live in peace (Not Arab Palestinians)
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have absolutely nothing to do with the former Armistice Agreement. In the case of the 1949 Armistice Agreements, they were between the "military commands" of Israel and the commands of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to any of the four agreements.

Look at any map of your so called Israel. Its supposed territory is defined by the 1949 UN armistice lines. Those lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Where are Israel's real borders?

(COMMENT)

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan. The Peace Treaty (Israel-Jordan) was signed on 26 October 1994. THEN the Oslo Accord II (Israel-Palestine Liberation Organization {PLO}) was agreed on 28 September 1995 (after the Israeli-Jordan Treaty).

The Israeli-Jordan Treaty ignored any prior claim on the territory formerly sovereign to Jordan. Jordan agreed the boundary between Israel and Jordan would be recognized as an "administrative boundary between" Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”

The PLO never entered into good-faith talks on the Permanent Status of Negotiations (including "settlements").

You can forget the Armistice Lines (except for historical reference purposes). The Armistice lines were only in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved (Article XII(2) of the Armistice Agreement) → 26 October 1994. On that date, the new agreement on the International Boundary took effect.

On the matter of the Gaza Strip, the Israelis unilaterally withdrew leaving the territory to the powers that be. The official blockade of Blockade of Gaza Strip took effect on January 2009, as an entirely separate action.

The blockade was established on similar grounds to Item 13, Part II Measures to prevent and combat terrorism, Annex Plan of Action to A/RES/60/288:

To step up national efforts and bilateral, subregional, regional and international cooperation, as appropriate, to improve border and customs controls in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives.​

Most Respectfully,
R

With respect, to the West Bank, the Peace Treaty which established the International Boundary (without prejudice) between Israel and Jordan.

Neither has any authority over Palestine's borders.

What borders ? How can a mythical country have borders? Israel has internationally recognized borders which has been proven countless times to you with links.
If Palestine had borders, what are they and when did they become a reality ? Link ?

I have posted links so many times yet you continue to ask the same stupid question.

Still nothing on those “new states” you claim were invented by the Treaty of Lausanne? Just blurt it out when you know the names of those “new states”.

 

[Hollie]

In regards to the "Stupid Question" remark: I would argue that it is YOU that has been NOT listening or paying attention, to the opposing respondents and their citations.

Foreign powers have no authority over international borders. Territorial integrity.

Is this connected to those “new states” you claim were created by the Treaty of Lausanne?