All the House GOP and the President - what an unfair advantage!!!

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's see, be concerned that Willow et al are unhappy or be glad that BHO reached out to the GOP congress and said, essentially, "Quit being turds, get on board, and let's govern this country."

Yepper, whacko loony ranting here from the activist agenda-driven far right is nothing more than a pile of crap on the ground. And when someone pokes a stick into it and stirs, like the whackos are doing here, it merely smells even worse.

Of course I'm a real Republican, come on inside and I'll show you my credentials

 

[Murf76]

Liberals have repeatedly denied that we're going to ration healthcare to Granny. But just who is it that decides what is "waste"? How is that determination made? How is it that we have nearly a HALF TRILLION dollars in "waste" and no heads have rolled? How can we trust a central government that has already tolerated a half trillion dollars in "waste" without addressing it before now? If they knew it was there, why didn't they ALREADY do something about it?

You guys are really quick to complain about the use of the phrase "death panel", but what else would you call it when THE GOVERNMENT dictates healthcare choices to patients? [And before you start squawking about how insurance companies dictate patient choice as well... be prepared, because my next question will be WHY do you stand with them instead of against them in the matter of limited competition? Holding insurance choices to a half dozen or less per state makes it EASIER, not harder, for insurance providers to ration treatment.

Certainly you're aware that rationing takes place everyday and is done by private insurance. As an example, the poor girl who died because Cigna wouldn't give her a liver transplant, is just one of thousands of similar cases.

Did I not warn you what my next question would be? (See above in bold)

So... why don't you educate the class on how limiting competition to just a handful of companies per state is going to stop insurance companies from rationing care and bring down costs. And tell us why they wouldn't be shitting their pants if they were forced to compete for business with 1300 other companies nationwide.

I'll be back later. I expect it'll take awhile for you to shovel that much bullshit out of the barn.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Liberals have repeatedly denied that we're going to ration healthcare to Granny. But just who is it that decides what is "waste"? How is that determination made? How is it that we have nearly a HALF TRILLION dollars in "waste" and no heads have rolled? How can we trust a central government that has already tolerated a half trillion dollars in "waste" without addressing it before now? If they knew it was there, why didn't they ALREADY do something about it?

You guys are really quick to complain about the use of the phrase "death panel", but what else would you call it when THE GOVERNMENT dictates healthcare choices to patients? [And before you start squawking about how insurance companies dictate patient choice as well... be prepared, because my next question will be WHY do you stand with them instead of against them in the matter of limited competition? Holding insurance choices to a half dozen or less per state makes it EASIER, not harder, for insurance providers to ration treatment.

Certainly you're aware that rationing takes place everyday and is done by private insurance. As an example, the poor girl who died because Cigna wouldn't give her a liver transplant, is just one of thousands of similar cases.

Did I not warn you what my next question would be? (See above in bold)

So... why don't you educate the class on how limiting competition to just a handful of companies per state is going to stop insurance companies from rationing care and bring down costs. And tell us why they wouldn't be shitting their pants if they were forced to compete for business with 1300 other companies nationwide.

I'll be back later. I expect it'll take awhile for you to shovel that much bullshit out of the barn.

Wow. a real live dissection of a librul talking point right out in the open. Nicely done

To the left is the Alinsky Gland...

 

[Murf76]

You must have watched this on Fox, because they only showed the questions and played commentary over any Obama answers. Then, after 40 minutes, they changed to Glenn Beck.

Before I go, I've just got to say... This preoccupation with Fox and the left's complete hysteria over it is not just a source of amusement to me... but a source of real hope.

It means that you'll continue along the path of political disaster, never understanding that it's your POLICIES which are objectionable. And rather than change them, you'll continue to point fingers and insult voters.

Keep up the good work. We'll be free of you yet.

 

[JimH52]

If only the GOP Standard Bearer, Rush Limbaugh, had been there, maybe they would have given a better showing. Or Palin could have stolen the show with her winks and "Eh"s. If only!

 

[Bfgrn]

Well in this debate I must admit you have a clear advantage...I call it the utopian right wing solution...there is never any cost in human capital in right wing solutions...everyone would agree with you scum bags if men women and children and the aged would evaporate.

You right wing pea brains need to send the kids off to the factories for pennies a day, work 7 days a week for peanuts, see you neighbor come home from work in a box, watch Grandma and Grandpa struggle from being forced to work until they die and forfeit all YOU'VE gained off the sweat and blood those hated 'progressives'

THEN, you would have to grow the spine to fight for those things yourself...

the REPUBLICAN plan...THAT would be the cartel run health care system we HAVE... otherwise Republicans would have addressed it in all those years they were in power after they sabotaged Clinton's plan. Oh I forgot...they DID pass the biggest unpaid entitlement plan that was a windfall for the cartels...Medicare D, you know, the one that screws Grandma and Grandpa.

The current "we have ideas' reactionary Republican 'plan' is a joke and a huge rip off... it costs 1/2 as much, but would only cover less than 1/10 as many people. Only a pea brain would not be able to do THAT math...

Oh... cry me a river. It's not Republicans who plan to defund Medicare of nearly a half trillion dollars in order to fund their healthcare folly. It's not Republicans who plan to dictate treatment options in the guise of Comparative Effectiveness Research. Not Bush who would give Grannie "a pill" rather than bypass surgery. It's not the Republican plan which guarantees business as usual for the "insurance cartels".

And you are most welcome to show me any example of Republicans pushing FOR child labor.
Good grief, man. What a reach. Although, Lord knows, teenagers who NEED jobs, who need the life experience of learning to work, can't find them anymore. Everything this administration does is designed to discourage employers from taking on part-time workers. Why pay healthcare for 20 part-timers if you can pay for 8 full-timers?

YOUR version of "compassion" robs from one citizen to ostensibly improve the life of another. But under the "progressive" system we've experienced for decades, our cities are crumbling and our citizens are enslaved by debt. If your way worked, why hasn't it worked in the cities and states where progressives reign supreme?

Yea, Democrats are going to defund Medicare by cutting the tentacles private cartels now have into it...they're going to cut into corporate socialism and welfare...poor babies!

Medicare...a program that wouldn't exist if it weren't for Democrats and progressives. Now the Democrats and progressives want to 'off' the people Medicare saved?

I thought you right wingers were business savvy? The way to lower costs in any industry is through what you slander as Comparative Effectiveness Research. Responsible adults and business people call it 'best practices' or 'evidence based practices'. Heaven forbid a doctor or a hospital have access to a database of proven methods and practices! There are models like the Mayo Clinic that have lowered cost AND improved out comes.

Compassion? Your version of socialism and welfare never applies when it's corporations gaining subsidies that undermine a true free market. They are allowed to pass along their costs and wastes to you and me. We get to pay for it with our money, our health and our lives. Bringing illness and even death to Americans is acceptable by the right..why is that?

Child labor reform - Damn progressives! Don't they know the negative impacts on the right's beloved corporate bottom line!

In the early decades of the twentieth century, the numbers of child laborers in the U.S. peaked. Child labor began to decline as the labor and reform movements grew and labor standards in general began improving, increasing the political power of working people and other social reformers to demand legislation regulating child labor. Union organizing and child labor reform were often intertwined, and common initiatives were conducted by organizations led by working women and middle class consumers, such as state Consumers’ Leagues and Working Women’s Societies. These organizations generated the National Consumers’ League in 1899 and the National Child Labor Committee in 1904, which shared goals of challenging child labor, including through anti-sweatshop campaigns and labeling programs. The National Child Labor Committee’s work to end child labor was combined with efforts to provide free, compulsory education for all children, and culminated in the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, which set federal standards for child labor.

WHAT we've experienced for decades in America is crumbling and decline as a direct result of the Republican's systematic dismantling of the New Deal and turning their backs on REAL compassionate Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower and Goldwater, who were builders not destroyers. Our cities and society's decline took seed during the Nixon administration when we last had a living wage in this country. I was alive to witness it.

The middle class in America is standing on the precipice of the Banzai Cliffs of Saipan and you right wing Republicans are yelling 'jump'

But don't feel bad...decades of right wing rule made America number one in one area...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If only the GOP Standard Bearer, Rush Limbaugh, had been there, maybe they would have given a better showing. Or Palin could have stolen the show with her winks and "Eh"s. If only!

It's the first time since he announce for Presidency that Obama's agreed to appear before a group that won't faint, so I give him some credit for finally manning up. I mean it's not saying much since the GUY IS THE ******* PRESIDENT OF THE USA, but it's nice to see him finally find the courage to directly face people who don't adore him.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well in this debate I must admit you have a clear advantage...I call it the utopian right wing solution...there is never any cost in human capital in right wing solutions...everyone would agree with you scum bags if men women and children and the aged would evaporate.

You right wing pea brains need to send the kids off to the factories for pennies a day, work 7 days a week for peanuts, see you neighbor come home from work in a box, watch Grandma and Grandpa struggle from being forced to work until they die and forfeit all YOU'VE gained off the sweat and blood those hated 'progressives'

THEN, you would have to grow the spine to fight for those things yourself...

the REPUBLICAN plan...THAT would be the cartel run health care system we HAVE... otherwise Republicans would have addressed it in all those years they were in power after they sabotaged Clinton's plan. Oh I forgot...they DID pass the biggest unpaid entitlement plan that was a windfall for the cartels...Medicare D, you know, the one that screws Grandma and Grandpa.

The current "we have ideas' reactionary Republican 'plan' is a joke and a huge rip off... it costs 1/2 as much, but would only cover less than 1/10 as many people. Only a pea brain would not be able to do THAT math...

Oh... cry me a river. It's not Republicans who plan to defund Medicare of nearly a half trillion dollars in order to fund their healthcare folly. It's not Republicans who plan to dictate treatment options in the guise of Comparative Effectiveness Research. Not Bush who would give Grannie "a pill" rather than bypass surgery. It's not the Republican plan which guarantees business as usual for the "insurance cartels".

And you are most welcome to show me any example of Republicans pushing FOR child labor.
Good grief, man. What a reach. Although, Lord knows, teenagers who NEED jobs, who need the life experience of learning to work, can't find them anymore. Everything this administration does is designed to discourage employers from taking on part-time workers. Why pay healthcare for 20 part-timers if you can pay for 8 full-timers?

YOUR version of "compassion" robs from one citizen to ostensibly improve the life of another. But under the "progressive" system we've experienced for decades, our cities are crumbling and our citizens are enslaved by debt. If your way worked, why hasn't it worked in the cities and states where progressives reign supreme?

Yea, Democrats are going to defund Medicare by cutting the tentacles private cartels now have into it...they're going to cut into corporate socialism and welfare...poor babies!

Medicare...a program that wouldn't exist if it weren't for Democrats and progressives. Now the Democrats and progressives want to 'off' the people Medicare saved?

I thought you right wingers were business savvy? The way to lower costs in any industry is through what you slander as Comparative Effectiveness Research. Responsible adults and business people call it 'best practices' or 'evidence based practices'. Heaven forbid a doctor or a hospital have access to a database of proven methods and practices! There are models like the Mayo Clinic that have lowered cost AND improved out comes.

Compassion? Your version of socialism and welfare never applies when it's corporations gaining subsidies that undermine a true free market. They are allowed to pass along their costs and wastes to you and me. We get to pay for it with our money, our health and our lives. Bringing illness and even death to Americans is acceptable by the right..why is that?

Child labor reform - Damn progressives! Don't they know the negative impacts on the right's beloved corporate bottom line!

In the early decades of the twentieth century, the numbers of child laborers in the U.S. peaked. Child labor began to decline as the labor and reform movements grew and labor standards in general began improving, increasing the political power of working people and other social reformers to demand legislation regulating child labor. Union organizing and child labor reform were often intertwined, and common initiatives were conducted by organizations led by working women and middle class consumers, such as state Consumers’ Leagues and Working Women’s Societies. These organizations generated the National Consumers’ League in 1899 and the National Child Labor Committee in 1904, which shared goals of challenging child labor, including through anti-sweatshop campaigns and labeling programs. The National Child Labor Committee’s work to end child labor was combined with efforts to provide free, compulsory education for all children, and culminated in the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, which set federal standards for child labor.

WHAT we've experienced for decades in America is crumbling and decline as a direct result of the Republican's systematic dismantling of the New Deal and turning their backs on REAL compassionate Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower and Goldwater, who were builders not destroyers. Our cities and society's decline took seed during the Nixon administration when we last had a living wage in this country. I was alive to witness it.

The middle class in America is standing on the precipice of the Banzai Cliffs of Saipan and you right wing Republicans are yelling 'jump'

But don't feel bad...decades of right wing rule made America number one in one area...

Have you ever heard of a bleeding heart Republican?
Paul Craig Roberts - the father of Reaganomics

Which part of the New Deal was "dismantled" and don't lie

 

[Liability]

* * * *

Which part of the New Deal was "dismantled" and don't lie

I don't think you can say that to Bfgrn. It's akin to telling him not to breathe.

 

[beowolfe]

If only the GOP Standard Bearer, Rush Limbaugh, had been there, maybe they would have given a better showing. Or Palin could have stolen the show with her winks and "Eh"s. If only!

It's the first time since he announce for Presidency that Obama's agreed to appear before a group that won't faint, so I give him some credit for finally manning up. I mean it's not saying much since the GUY IS THE ******* PRESIDENT OF THE USA, but it's nice to see him finally find the courage to directly face people who don't adore him.

You do know the POTUS has met with congressional republicans before, don't you? It just wasn't televised. This time the GOP agreed to have this televised. I've read that they're regretting the decision. So they must not think they showed too well.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And I watched as Rudy Giuliani's Conservative principles changed NYC from a crime infested, Third World Calcutta shithole where my co worker was mugged at gunpoint on the corner of 51st and Madison into a world class city where violent street crime in all but non-existent and the value of the real estate has increased by at least an order of magnitude.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

* * * *

Which part of the New Deal was "dismantled" and don't lie

I don't think you can say that to Bfgrn. It's akin to telling him not to breathe.

Since i don't expect an honest answer, it's a wash.

 

[NYcarbineer]

LOL!


Oh sure. Like the GOP wouldn't come even better prepared to expose President Obama's endless and tiresome litany of lies and posturing?

After that sublimely absurd "advice," you are possibly, now, JUST ridiculous enough to merit a job as a political advisor to the President.

The Republicans weren't prepared? I thought they invited him.

I can't help but notice that you dishonest liberoidals all strain to twist perfectly clear words.

I never said (nor did I suspect or suggest) that the GOP reps were not prepared. That's just your dishonesty bubbling up again.

What I did say (all your dishonest efforts to spin it notwithstanding) was that in the future they would be even BETTER prepared.

Most of are like that. We learn from experience. I realize this is often untrue with you liberoids. But, that's your problem.

Then you should be FOR more of these events. You should agree with me that they should be standard practice.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I watched a good deal of it. The President was presidential. Where the Republicans talked about the good and welfare of the country openly and honestly, the President responded accordingly. Where they played politics, he slapped them into place.

Come on, Pubs, if we want to play, we gotta follow the rules. It's not hard, is it? Particularly if the other side controls the rule book right now, can change it on us, and make us look even more stupid than we do right now?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I watched a good deal of it. The President was presidential. Where the Republicans talked about the good and welfare of the country openly and honestly, the President responded accordingly. Where they played politics, he slapped them into place.

Come on, Pubs, if we want to play, we gotta follow the rules. It's not hard, is it? Particularly if the other side controls the rule book right now, can change it on us, and make us look even more stupid than we do right now?

The Constitution is the rule book and the Dems don't control it

 

[Liability]

I watched a good deal of it. The President was presidential. Where the Republicans talked about the good and welfare of the country openly and honestly, the President responded accordingly. Where they played politics, he slapped them into place.

Come on, Pubs, if we want to play, we gotta follow the rules. It's not hard, is it? Particularly if the other side controls the rule book right now, can change it on us, and make us look even more stupid than we do right now?

Nobody could possibly make you look any stupider than you already do!

By the way, Jokey, to assist you in your tiresome effort to fool anybody, you should probably know that, with very few exceptions, nobody who isn't a liberal Democratic refers to Republicans as "Pubs" or as "pubes."

No need to thank me, Jokey.


As to the "merits" of your post, you are largely wrong. The President seemed only marginally Presidential and even then just occasionally.

If you were objective (and, of course, you aren't) you'd also admit that he didn't effectively slap anyone. He tried. He failed. That might be his mantra. It should be.

 

[Bfgrn]

THE NEW DEAL WORKED; THE GOP'S DISMANTLING OF IT IS WHAT GOT US INTO THIS TROUBLE

In the early 1980s, under the leadership of Ronald Reagan, conservative Republicans set about dismantling this system. Regulations were gutted or not enforced, the social safety net was largely unraveled, and government tax policy shifted money from the middle class to the wealthiest. Since 1980 the result has been a nasty recession in the early 1990s, caused by the failure to regulate the savings and loan industry, and two devastating downturns, one in the early 1980s and the one we're in right now.

More than that, during the 30 years in which we've moved away from the New Deal, the middle class has stagnated. As wealth and assets have shifted to the top 10 percent, the middle class has survived largely on credit cards and home equity loans. Now millions have no way to pay that piper.

The system the New Deal initiated kept us from experiencing a second Great Depression for nearly half a century. We are in our current mess in large measure because we dismantled that system. Republicans would have us be afraid of a new New Deal. But based on the track record of the original, a new New Deal is just what we need.



Reagan: The Great American Socialist

Let's go back to the early 1980's. In 1981, Reagan signed a law that sharply reduced the income tax for the wealthiest Americans and corporations. The president asserted his program would create jobs, purge inflation and, get this, trim the budget deficit. However, following the tax cut, the deficit soared from 2.5 percent of GDP to over 6 percent, alarming financial markets, sending interest rates sky high, and culminating in the worst recession since the 1930's.

Soon the president realized he needed new revenues to trim the deficit, bring down interest rates and improve his chances for reelection. He would not rescind the income tax cut, but other taxes were acceptable. In 1982, taxes were raised on gasoline and cigarettes, but the deficit hardly budged. In 1983, the president signed the biggest tax rise on payrolls, promising to create a surplus in the Social Security system, while knowing all along that the new revenue would be used to finance the deficit.

The retirement system was looted from the first day the Social Security surplus came into being, because the legislation itself gave the president a free hand to spend the surplus in any way he liked. Thus began a massive transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class, especially the self-employed small businessman, to the wealthy. The self-employment tax jumped as much as 66 percent.

In 1986, Reagan slashed the top tax rate further. His redistributionist obsession led to a perversity in the law. The wealthiest faced a 28 percent tax rate, while those with lower incomes faced a 33 percent rate; in addition, the bottom rate climbed from 11 percent to 15 percent. For the first time in history, the top rate fell and the bottom rate rose simultaneously. Even unemployment compensation was not spared. The jobless had to pay income tax on their benefits. A year later, the man who would not spare unemployment compensation from taxation called for a cut in the capital gains tax. Thus, Reagan was a staunch socialist, totally committed to his cause of wealth redistribution towards the affluent.

How much wealth transfer has occurred through Reagan's policies? At least $3 trillion.

The Social Security hike generated over $2 trillion in surplus between 1984 and 2007, and if it had been properly invested, say, in AAA corporate bonds it could have earned another trillion by now. At present, the fund is empty, because it has been used up to finance the federal deficits resulting from frequent cuts in income tax rates. If this is not redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, what else is?

Thus, Reagan was the first Republican socialist - and a great one, because his wealth transfer occurred on a massive scale. His accomplishment dwarfs even FDR's, and if today the small businessman suffers a crippling tax burden, he must thank Reagan the redistributionist. However, FDR took pains to help the poor, while Reagan took pains to help the wealthiest like himself.

 

[Maple]

After watching the 'teleprompter'-less Commander in Chief take on a room full of House Republicans at their retreat, it's clear their was an unfair advantage....

They needed a lot more Republicans!

Point, set, match...Obama

Obama was toying with them. Took their best shots and destroyed them with his reply.

And the Republicans expect to win in 2012?

Paraphrased:

"Mr. President. Your administration continually claims that the GOP never offer up ideas. Seeing as we have, maybe you should ask the Speaker why those ideas have never reached your desk"

After a few seconds of "deer in headlights stare"....

"they HAVE been put on my desk"

"Then why does your administration continually say we have not offered any ideas?"

After a few more seconds of deer in headlight stare....

"Becuase I do not see that your ideas will work"

So in other words...

He believes having ideas that he does not agree with is the same as not having ideas at all.

The exchange spoke voumes of what he is all about..

"My way or the highway"

Have you noticed all his statements about " I want, or I won't accept", What he doesn't seem to be aware of is that their are millions of Americans who don't want what he wants and we don't care what he accepts or not. Arrogance in abundance with this guy.

 

[Darkwind]

Has anyone yet figure out that Obama really didn't say anything?

 

[traveler52]

But But...I thought he was "reaching out?" He should be preaching to and scolding the partisan hacks in his own party. They're the ones locking people out of meeting rooms. Why should the Republicans be Bi-Partisan now? This President and this Democrat controlled Congress have been by far the most bitter partisan hacks in History. Maybe the Republicans should just stay locked out and watch this Democrat Titanic sink to the bottom? Their whole "Bi-Partisanship" routine just seems so disingenuous at this point. Give the Republicans a good reason to go back to the meetings and then maybe we can talk. Preachy lectures just aren't gonna cut it.

THIS was the GOP's golden opportunity to unleash all of their "ideas" to Obama and the American public. What happened?

In a word, "NOTHING." The biggest mistake the Repugs made was to allow the Q&A to be televized. With over One Hundred Forty (140) Repugs in the room, and just one lone Democratic President, all they proved was they had NOTHING...ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING AND NONE.

Memo to the repugs, never invite a man who is way smater than you are to answer your questions, you tend get embareassed.