All Hell Is Breaking Out in Egypt.

[LibocalypseNow]

Amen. Yea it could be another Iran situation over there. Who knows who's really waiting in the wings to take over that nation. It could be the deranged Islamic Clerics,just like in Iran. It would be wise to get Americans out of there.

 

[saveliberty]

Why can't unrest in the Middle East bring gas prices down?

Because the MidEast oil for the most part must be shipped through the Suez Canal. Painfully close to Egypt. Supply interuptions mean shortages, which in turn means price increases.

painfully close?

Being gentle with the geographically challenged.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm interested in seeing the true will of the Egyptian people. I watch this movement with interest. I would also like to see all monies extended to Egypt, Israel and Jordan ended.

It has stopped this movement for too long and has interfered in Israeli politics as well. Stop it all including monies from the US to Gaza/West Bank.

My personal view? Let the people all over the middle east decide what they wish and let the world know their minds.



Because it isn't yours?

Then who do the resources of the world belong to ?
Are we breathing American air ? Drinking American water ?

Come on. Do you believe that the resources of the Middle East are the property of everyone who wants them?

He asked you a question. Who does the water and air belong to? What if WE were the only ones who had it?

 

[L.K.Eder]

Then who do the resources of the world belong to ?
Are we breathing American air ? Drinking American water ?

Come on. Do you believe that the resources of the Middle East are the property of everyone who wants them?

He asked you a question. Who does the water and air belong to? What if WE were the only ones who had it?

then i will answer.

everything what is on or above or under US american soil belongs to the USA.

everything else belongs to those who grab it.

okay? fair and balanced?

 

[draper]

Uh, my God burying the oil post was a joke, folks. Hence the winky.

 

[Samson]

In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.

And its been that way for about 4,000 years.

 

[High_Gravity]

In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.

And its been that way for about 4,000 years.

All those fucking billions we gave to Mobarak, and it all went to line the pockets of the regime and to the Military, maybe they should have put some of that into their economy?

 

[WillowTree]

In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.

And its been that way for about 4,000 years.

All those fucking billions we gave to Mobarak, and it all went to line the pockets of the regime and to the Military, maybe they should have put some of that into their economy?

that's what happens to most of our money. have you looked at Haiti? Have you. The US should cut off all foreign aid immediately.

 

[Samson]

In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.

And its been that way for about 4,000 years.

All those fucking billions we gave to Mobarak, and it all went to line the pockets of the regime and to the Military, maybe they should have put some of that into their economy?

Why?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

 

[L.K.Eder]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

thanks for your opinion about a whole region. and millions of people.

 

[Trajan]

I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.

ha! I have a co-worker who is supposed to be going over there for 3 weeks next Thursday....

 

[LordBrownTrout]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

thanks for your opinion about a whole region. and millions of people.

My mistake for generalizing. Thanks for the correction. I truly believe that Iran wants a democracy and needs to throw the clerics out.

 

[Intense]

I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.

ha! I have a co-worker who is supposed to be going over there for 3 weeks next Thursday....

Not a good idea. State Dept is advising Americans to leave Egypt.

 

[Trajan]

It might be wise to remember that we thought we had a chance at trading up, because Iran wanted to be 'democratic' as we let the shah go down.
interesting article...

Will democratic movements in Tunisia and Egypt heed lessons of Iran's revolution?

An exiled former president of Iran explains that an open future for the Arab world could mean the flowering of democracy – or resurgent dictatorship. To keep a new strongman from taking over, certain conditions must be met.


By removing a despot who was the main obstacle to democracy, the Tunisian revolt has immense importance for the Arab and Islamic world. Above all, it has opened up a future which, due to the iron grip of an authoritarian political system backed by European and Arab governments, had been considered closed.

As we see already from the burgeoning demonstrations in Egypt, it is not lost on others in the region that ousting corrupt autocrats is no longer just an impossible dream. Tunisia’s message to others in the region is that despotism is not a lot in life to which they must submit. That message is spreading fast because the Tunisian democratic movement is legitimately homegrown and not tied to a Western sponsor, as was the case with the US invasion of Iraq.

As I well know from personal experience, however, an open future includes not only the possibility of democracy, but the possibility of resurgent dictatorship in one form or another.


In order to achieve democracy and diminish the prospect of a new strongman taking over, certain conditions have to be fulfilled.
Distance from old regimes and elites

First, the movement has to distance itself from the old regime and its elites. Revolutions only happen when the system is thoroughly dismantled and rebuilt. For now, the political and neo-liberal economic structures which supported Ben Ali’s dictatorship, although shaken and fragile, are to a large extent still intact. The same elites are still in charge.

From this perspective, it was a mistake for the movement to enter into negotiations to form a coalition government with the old elites. They can be trusted only when they voluntarily resign and allow themselves to be replaced by others elected by the people.

Second, the entire structure of the despotic regime – the executive, judiciary and legislative branches – should be revolutionized. It would be a mistake to limit the objectives of the movement to simply changing personalities.


the money shot-
snip-

The unfortunate lesson of the Iranian revolution was that most political organizations did not commit themselves to democracy. Lacking the unity of a democratic front, one by one they became targets of power-seeking clergy in the form of the Islamic Republic Party, and were pushed aside.


more at-
Will democratic movements in Tunisia and Egypt heed lessons of Iran's revolution? - CSMonitor.com

 

[L.K.Eder]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

thanks for your opinion about a whole region. and millions of people.

My mistake for generalizing. Thanks for the correction. I truly believe that Iran wants a democracy and needs to throw the clerics out.

and tunisians and algerians, and jordanians and egyptians?

they don't want democracy?

to me it looks like you americans are whipped into a "fear the mooslim" frenzy again.


decades ago it was the "fear the socialist/commie" frenzy. that's when mossadegh, lumumba, allende were replaced by the shah, mobutu and pinochet. and that's just a start.

 

[Trajan]

I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.

ha! I have a co-worker who is supposed to be going over there for 3 weeks next Thursday....

Not a good idea. State Dept is advising Americans to leave Egypt.

well, I told her that it may be settled by next week, OR not, and be even more volatile, but she says that her tour grp. is small at 8 people and the organizer tour manager how will escort them is a husband and wife team how are Egyptian and live in Cairo.....they are starting out there and heading south directly.

 

[Ropey]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

I'm not so sure of that. Most Egyptians do not want Western Democracy. Some do. Some want a Democracy that does not separate Church and State.

Some want no Democracy and only an autocratic religion. Most of those are in Lebanon though, and Mubarak has not let Shia have any control (Egypt has the best Arab intelligence/counter intelligence in the region). I don't see another Iran. There's simiply not enough angst in Egypt.

Egypt has quite a bit of secular roots and many also see themselves as of the Egyptian race and not Arabs.

So, let them have at it and let them decide as a people. It's time. America thought it could pay to keep peace. It worked. That day seems over and I think that there is a chance of good with it being over. No, Egypt is not Iran. Will the Army beat down the people? Possibly, but not for long. One can not hold back the tide.

It is upon us. I watch with great interest.

 

[zzzz]

The people are restless. They are hungry and they are poor. They want change. But it matters not how much they change the government there is no food or jobs to give. It's going to be a long violent year.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

People have to want democracy. The ME doesn't want democracy.

I'm not so sure of that. Most Egyptians do not want Western Democracy. Some do. Some want a Democracy that does not separate Church and State.

Some want no Democracy and only an autocratic religion. Most of those are in Lebanon though, and Mubarak has not let Shia have any control (Egypt has the best Arab intelligence/counter intelligence in the region). I don't see another Iran. There's simiply not enough angst in Egypt.

Egypt has quite a bit of secular roots and many also see themselves as of the Egyptian race and not Arabs.

So, let them have at it and let them decide as a people. It's time. America thought it could pay to keep peace. It worked. That day seems over and I think that there is a chance of good with it being over. No, Egypt is not Iran. Will the Army beat down the people? Possibly, but not for long. One can not hold back the tide.

It is upon us. I watch with great interest.

Interesting and good incite. Thanks for the perspective. How would you explain the clerics suppression of the uprising in Iran a couple of years ago?