Alex O'Connor vs Frank Turek | The Moral Argument DEBATE

[Hollie]

I never used the terms murder or homicide. I said killing.

And you just admitted that society is the force behind what does and does not constitute moral behavior which is what I have been saying all along. Morals change as society changes therefore morals are relative

We have no absolute moral code regarding killing. It is different in different situations. It is changeable. An absolute code cannot be different in different situations by definition.

And a person can indeed objectively analyze his actions. In fact the only thing people can control is there reactions to external events.

You're lying, and you know you're lying. We're both conscious of the fact that my prior questions go directly to our awareness of the extant, universally objective standard of morality. You consciously pretend not to understand that human beings presuppose that standard as they extrapolate the proper outcome from the circumstances of any given situation.

The standard never changes!

Everyone knows that it's evil to violate the life or liberty or property of another, as everyone knows that they would not wish for another to violate their life or liberty or property. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.

The only things that vary are the circumstances of the situation, and the only thing that sustains the precarious state of an injustice is overwhelming force.

We both know there's really no reason to go through your morally obtuse situational propositions as the outcomes relative to the standard are the same, and the only reason you consciously evade the attending concepts of the standard—justice, injustice, right, wrong, good, evil, murder, theft, tyranny and the like—is because you apprehend the futility of your argument and the obfuscations thereof.

Special treatment:

And you just admitted that society is the force behind what does and does not constitute moral behavior which is what I have been saying all along. Morals change as society changes therefore morals are relative.

Another lie. Once again, the distinction I made and you pretend not to understand:

I never said you denied the existence of societal norms and mores (laws), to which you're actually alluding in this instance.​

​

You claimed that moral absolutes do not exist above the shifting norms and mores of human societies in history. That's a moral claim of ontological origin, and you ascribe the origin of morality itself to humans sans any justification anywhere in sight. —Ringtone​

The universally objective standard of morality stands and stays! Chattel slavery, for example, is evil, the shifting norms and mores of any given society in history notwithstanding!

Further, the foundation of morality is logic, which ontologically and historically precedes the existence of mankind. Injustice ≠ justice anymore than a tree = a dinosaur.

There are no moral absolutes as our morals have changed over time. I have given plenty of examples to show that.


And slavery is only evil if the people say it's evil like any other behavior.

In fact the very concept of evil is nothing but a human construct.

The only moral standards that exist are the one we humans have established.

And logic is nothing but another human creation. Logic as we know it is the result of human beings pondering their own reasoning in an attempt to better the quality of their own thinking. Only when a person has developed an intellect capable of such introspection is such a thing possible.

More of the same bullshit sans an ontological justification anywhere in sight, and I suspect, from your slippering disregard for the actual thrust of my argument and the attending concepts thereof, that the reason you will not attempt to justify this bullshit is because you're at least smart enough to recognize the fact that you would necessarily have to assert that God doesn't exist, which of course is an ontologically, scientifically and logically indemonstrable claim fraught with inherent contradictions.

In any event, the universally objective standard of morality, the laws of physics, the laws of mathematics, and the laws of logic ontologically precede and have primacy over the existence of the physical world and human consciousness. That is self-evident.

#Winning

I don't believe any gods exist.

and here we will always be at an impasse.

You are appealing to the authority of the god you believe in. I do not recognize such an authority.

So at this point we are wasting each other's time.

Horse pucky. You know God exists, just like you know that you necessarily and inescapably presuppose an absolute standard of logic and morality every time you open your mouth to assert anything at all.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. . . .​

Settle down, dear. You 'read' like an angry Jimmy Swaggert. There's no reason to begin assaulting others with your gods and your Bibles.

 

[Ringtone]

Settle down, dear. You 'read' like an angry Jimmy Swaggert. There's no reason to begin assaulting others with your gods and your Bibles.

Drop and give me 50, and make it snappy!

 

[Ringtone]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

 

[BreezeWood]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

.

Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights.

.
the rule of law when enacted is the guarantor of civil society, the state when separate from religious infringements.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

 

[Ringtone]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

 

[Ringtone]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm like Tigger in Winnie the Pooh.... I'm the only one.

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

But you a lesbian, baby. I'mma turn you.

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

But you a lesbian, baby. I'mma turn you.

You think everyone is gay.

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

But you a lesbian, baby. I'mma turn you.

You think everyone is gay.

No. Just the one's who claim they are gay. Like you did when you posted as Muddah. Or were you just trolling?

 

[Taz]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

But you a lesbian, baby. I'mma turn you.

You think everyone is gay.

No. Just the one's who claim they are gay. Like you did when you posted as Muddah. Or were you just trolling?

Not saying that I had anything to with Muddah cuz I didn't, but do you believe everything you read online, or just here?

 

[ding]

So what's the standard? Do you know?

Historically, the classical liberalism of natural law is extrapolated from the sociopolitical ramifications of Judeo-Christianity: Love God above all other things, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Hence, God, not the state, is the Source and Guarantor of human rights. These rights are inalienable. They cannot be given, taken or transferred. They can only be violated or suppressed.

As I have written before:

Everyone knows that to violate the life, liberty or property of another is evil, as everyone knows they would not wish that their life, liberty or property be violated by another. Even the apathetic ghouls of sociopathy know that a desperate state of fight or flee ensues on the heels of an injustice.​

So you don't know because you just made that shit up?

You're a sociopath.

Says Dingbat's sock.

I'm not Ding, sociopath.

Taz isn't a sociopath... yet.

Chatting with your sock? What up? No real friends?

Don't be that way, baby. You know you are my favorite.

Just read what ringding says, it's classic dingbat.

Did he say he liked banging your tight ass too? Cause I always liked bending you over and showing you the fifty states.

I always knew you were gay.

But you a lesbian, baby. I'mma turn you.

You think everyone is gay.

No. Just the one's who claim they are gay. Like you did when you posted as Muddah. Or were you just trolling?

Not saying that I had anything to with Muddah cuz I didn't, but do you believe everything you read online, or just here?

Sure you didn't. Wink. Wink.

I rely on my intuition in matters like these.