Zone1 Very few people want to know the Truth

[ding]

“For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.”

Is that sentence in quotes and directly above, true or is it false Saint_Ding?

The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

Catholic Church and slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[surada]

The Catholic Church was against slavery long b4 any other "church" was. Most people who owned slaves in the US were Protestant

Catholics were a minority.. although Savannah and New Orleans had Catholics.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

Catholic Church and slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Very nice of the Catholic Church to “humanize“ the west.


Is the sentence in para ii. True or False?

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth. 240808 {post•153} NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt inserted link w/excerpt: “For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.” nfbw 240809 Vvftwp00153

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Is the sentence in para ii. True or False Saint ding?

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth. 240808 {post•153} NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt inserted link w/excerpt: “For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.” nfbw 240809 Vvftwp00153

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Very few people want to know the Truth 240728 {post•1}. forkintheroad7 Jul’24 Svfpwt: It's pretty scary, but true: People do not want the Truth frknthrdN 240728 Svfpwt00001

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth. 240808 {post•153} NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt inserted link w/excerpt: “For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.” nfbw 240809 Vvftwp00153

Let’s find Truth together starting with paragraph ii. Is it true yes or no?

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre said:
That's fine but it is not critical thinking, It is testing/challenging your beliefs. Two different





And when Saint_Ding disagrees that disagreement automatically converts to absolute truth because he says so.

And those who don't utilize critical thinking generally revert to ad hominem. Once that happens I know any debate utilizing critical thinking isn't going to happen.

 

[surada]

EARLY CHRISTIAN AND CHRISTIAN-LIKE SECTS: THOMASINES, ASCETICS AND MANICHEISM | Facts and Details

factsanddetails.com

Diversity in early Christian theology - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Woodznutz]

And those who don't utilize critical thinking generally revert to ad hominem. Once that happens I know any debate utilizing critical thinking isn't going to happen.

Boy, have you got that right.

 

[Foxfyre]

“For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.”

Is that sentence in quotes and directly above, true or is it false Saint_Ding?

When Emperor Constantine legalized and favored Christianity in the 4th Century AD, the church began a massive expansion throughout the near east, northern Africa, and all of what Europe, i.e. what was then the Roman Empire. And while in that culture in which slavery, including chattel slavery, existed--even Jesus recognized the existence of slavery and did not condemn it in his time--it is true that many, maybe most Church clergy/leaders, even most likely some Saints, owned slaves. But the Church's considerable wealth and newly acquired power came via bequests, acquisitions/large land holdings via expansion, investments.

It is also true that Christian values/morals, no doubt utilizing critical thinking (perhaps due to prodding by the Holy Spirit) came to reject the concept of slavery and was the driving force that made it less and less common throughout the Christian dominated world. By the Middle Ages it was illegal to enslave Christians. The Church, both Catholic and Protestant, in the New World was also the driving force that would end slavery for all, other than in Islamic societies and a few other cultures, more than a millennia later.

The Church like all other human institutions/schools of thought is a mixed bag of right and wrong thinking/beliefs/culture/dogma and has been both a source of infinite good as well as pockets of evil.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Very few people want to know the Truth 240809 {post•170}

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt quotes a Bible verse: “Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind.” (1 Peter 5:2). nfbw 240809 Vvfpwt00170

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth 240808 {post•152}. forkintheroad7 Aug’24 Svfpwt: The Catholic Church was against slavery long before any other "church" was. frknthrd 240808 Svfpwt00152

iii. Very few people want to know the Truth 240809 {post•170}

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt: Let’s be precise in our language if we are honestly attempting to separate truth from falsehood for Saint_Forkintheroad. I have a problem with the use of the word “against” in paragraph ii. above.

When you tell me St. Fork that the Catholic Church was against slavery, is there some kind of exception about the word “against“ when the Church itself was enjoying the filthy lucre from the slave trade apparently with the blessing of the Holy Spirit for 1888 years after a Carpenter named Jesus of Nazareth walked on the desert lands of Northern Africa. nfbw 240809 Vvfpwt00170

 

[ding]

Can anyone make sense of this guy's posts?

Talk about on the spectrum. Yeesh.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Can anyone make sense of this guy's posts?

Talk about on the spectrum. Yeesh.

Is the following statement true or false? Saint_Ding.?

“For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.”

 

[forkintheroad7]

When Emperor Constantine legalized and favored Christianity in the 4th Century AD, the church began a massive expansion throughout the near east, northern Africa, and all of what Europe, i.e. what was then the Roman Empire. And while in that culture in which slavery, including chattel slavery, existed--even Jesus recognized the existence of slavery and did not condemn it in his time--it is true that many, maybe most Church clergy/leaders, even most likely some Saints, owned slaves. But the Church's considerable wealth and newly acquired power came via bequests, acquisitions/large land holdings via expansion, investments.

I'm thinking people who speak for the Catholic Church should probably study --same from a CATHOLIC perspective.. you know.. at least once in awhile?

But usually, it's just some Protestant's biased view of the CC that people go by

 

[whutTHEYsay]

But usually, it's just some Protestant's biased view of the CC that people go by

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Svfpwt: I go by facts in pursuit of truth. Hence, I am asking you a very simple question..

Is the following statement in paragraph i
to true or false Saint_Forkintheroad

nfbw 240809 Vvfpwt00174

i. Very few people want to know the Truth. 240808 {post•153} NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt inserted link w/excerpt: “For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.” nfbw 240809 Vvftwp00153

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth240808 {post•152}. forkintheroad7 Aug’24 Svfpwt:The Catholic Church was against slavery long before any other "church" was. frknthrd 240808 Svfpwt00152

nfbw 240809 Vvfpwt00174

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm thinking people who speak for the Catholic Church should probably study --same from a CATHOLIC perspective.. you know.. at least once in awhile?

But usually, it's just some Protestant's biased view of the CC that people go by

I studied Church history and development of Christian thought with Roman Catholic, Anglican/Episcopalian and other instructors as well as have done a lot of independent study. I'm fairly confident of my knowledge of the Catholic perspective at least from a historical perspective.

 

[forkintheroad7]

i. Very few people want to know the Truth 240728 {post•1}. forkintheroad7 Jul’24 Svfpwt: It's pretty scary, but true: People do not want the Truth frknthrdN 240728 Svfpwt00001

ii. Very few people want to know the Truth. 240808 {post•153} NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vvfpwt inserted link w/excerpt: “For more than a century, the Catholic Church financed its expansion and its institutions with profits made from the purchase and sale of people they enslaved.” nfbw 240809 Vvftwp00153

Let’s find Truth together starting with paragraph ii. Is it true yes or no?

I don't get-- on first or even 2nd glance-- what the deal is in how you word things here. I see only one question.

Why are you depending on me to do your homework 4 u? You have given me ZERO details as to which purported event in Catholic Church history you are referring, assuming any such alluded to event occurred at all.

Another disingenuous poster..

 

[forkintheroad7]

I studied Church history and development of Christian thought with Roman Catholic, Anglican/Episcopalian and other instructors as well as have done a lot of independent study. I'm fairly confident of my knowledge of the Catholic perspective at least from a historical perspective.

The word Catholic means nothing in these modern times. The Catholics had the Vatican stolen out from under them some 65 years ago. The Vatican is NOT Catholic and therefore nothing that emanates therefrom can be trusted.

If you were a true Catholic, you would know that. And yes, I know you are not Catholic..

Fake Catholics stay in the novus ordo sect regardless of hearing such truths as aforementioned. Entrusting oneself to them will likely land you in Hell.

Extra ecclessia nulla sallus .. Outside the Church there is no salvation

That was taught by the real Catholics before 1929 (not certain about the years directly after 1929) when the Lateran Treaty was signed creating the Vatican City State... which led to the Vatican II Council which led to..

francis.. heresy, lawlessness, anti-Catholic BS

 

[Foxfyre]

The word Catholic means nothing in these modern times. The Catholics had the Vatican stolen out from under them some 65 years ago. The Vatican is NOT Catholic and therefore nothing that emanates therefrom can be trusted.

If you were a true Catholic, you would know that. And yes, I know you are not Catholic..

Fake Catholics stay in the novus ordo sect regardless of hearing such truths as aforementioned. Entrusting oneself to them will likely land you in Hell.

Extra ecclessia nulla sallus .. Outside the Church there is no salvation

That was taught by the real Catholics before 1929 (not certain about the years directly after 1929) when the Lateran Treaty was signed creating the Vatican City State... which led to the Vatican II Council which led to..

francis.. heresy, lawlessness, anti-Catholic BS

I allow you your beliefs. I am of the opinion that the Bible strongly teaches of a priesthood of ALL believers and does not specify any particular denomination or Christian group as being being superior or closer to God than any other group. The term 'catholic' (little 'c') is interpreted as the wholeness of the Church, that is all who know of and believe in the salvation of Jesus the Christ. There is caution/admonition for all to beware of false prophets, false teachers, or those who presume to have the whole truth and nobody else does.

I believe all Christians, all Christian congregations, all Christian denominations/orders/groups have elements of truth in their beliefs, dogma, doctrine, catechisms, teaching, theology, probably some a lot more than others. I also believe that no Christian or Christian group being made up of imperfect human beings--all have sinned and fallen short--is without error no matter what its beliefs, dogma, doctrine, etc.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Very few people want to know the Truth 240728 {post•1}. forkintheroad7 Jul’24 Svfpwt: But generally speaking, it looks like people just believe what they want to believe.. frknthrdN 240728 Svfpwt00001

ii. America's Christian Heritage 240310 {post•201}. ding Mar’24 Sachyz: A great nation based upon natural law. A really great accomplishment for the Christian faith. dvng 240310 Sachyz00201

iii. Very few people want to know the Truth 240728 {post•}

In response to paragraph i. Yes! people believing what they want to believe and reject what they don’t want to believe is the heart save soul of Jefferson and Madison’s Separation of Church and State. Are you complaining about it?

 

[forkintheroad7]

I allow you your beliefs. I am of the opinion that the Bible strongly teaches of a priesthood of ALL believers and does not specify any particular denomination or Christian group as being being superior or closer to God than any other group. The term 'catholic' (little 'c') is interpreted as the wholeness of the Church, that is all who know of and believe in the salvation of Jesus the Christ. There is caution/admonition for all to beware of false prophets, false teachers, or those who presume to have the whole truth and nobody else does.

I believe all Christians, all Christian congregations, all Christian denominations/orders/groups have elements of truth in their beliefs, dogma, doctrine, catechisms, teaching, theology, probably some a lot more than others. I also believe that no Christian or Christian group being made up of imperfect human beings--all have sinned and fallen short--is not without error no matter what its beliefs, dogma, doctrine, etc.

I wasn't talking about individuals. I was talking about the Catholic Church, which Christ instituted so as to get people to Heaven. It only stands to reason that the Church Christ founded is the one and only that can succeed in doing that (with a person's cooperation of course). Does that not stand to reason?

Jesus said that only those who are baptized in water and the Spirit will get to Heaven. That is Baptism, a Sacrament. It even makes me feel uncomfortable to say extra ecclessia nulla sallus, but that is what the Catholic Church traditionally taught and so that is what I am compelled to believe. If I don't accept ALL that Christ's Church teaches.. well, that makes me a heretic. That means I have rejected the Church. But the thing is, it only makes sense that this is true. I believe babies go to a special place and those who die b4 the age of reason. But there is no excuse for adults who have heard about Christ's Church all their lives and reject it for their own personal reasons. Many reject it simply because it is exceedingly unpopular.. I ought to know.