Adapting Infrastructure to Rising Sea Levels

[Stephanie]

They can do whatever they want as long as it's not my money going into it...

I don't live there...get all them wealthy liberals/progressives together and ADAPT it

Albert (bore) Gore for starters, the leader of the globull warming cult

 

[Abraham3]

They can do whatever they want as long as it's not my money going into it...

Really? I don't know where you live, but I'm quite certain that you and your neighbors face certain threats from the environment: weather extremes, flooding, drought, earthquakes, even volcanoes. The federal government directly, and indirectly through assistance to your local governments, provides a number of supports to help you and the rest of your community deal with such threats. Why would you deny those sorts of services to others? You can hardly deny that the world's sea level is rising and that such a situation presents a threat to all coastal inhabitants.

I don't live there.

Yes you do. Both as an American and as a caring human being.

..get all them wealthy liberals/progressives together and ADAPT it

Natural disasters pay no mind to class or income. And an attitude like this is not the sort on which this nation was founded. It is the sort of attitude from which our founders fled and against which they and many generations of our forefathers have repeatedly fought.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's not a coincidence that every single denialist on this thread is a loony right-wing-extremist-cult crackpot. Outside of the kook right fringe in nations dominated by a nutty conservative English-speaking media, denialism essentially doesn't exist.

As I keep pointing out, denialism isn't the cult. Bitter nutball right-wing-extremism is the cult. Denialism is just one of the many crazy mantras that the righty cultists are required to chant. To them, this is entirely about finding reasons to hate liberals. They stink so badly at the science because they actively try to stink at it. Westwall here has enough intelligence to be smart about the topic if he wanted to. Instead, he's devoted all of his intelligence and energy into being stupid about it, because that's what his cult commands.

In contrast, AGW science is non-political, crossing all political boundaries all around the world. Because it's actual science. The denialists will keep trying to make it all about politics, but we rationalists will keep ignoring their deflections. Instead, we'll keep doing what enrages denialists the most, which is talk about the science and the data.

It's true, most people against the AGW government overreach are those who are already against government overreach.
People who already love huge government have no issue with more government.
And they'll support bad science to get it.

In contrast, AGW science is non-political, crossing all political boundaries all around the world.

Does that explain the left-wing support for fracking and nuclear power?
Oh, right, left wing enviro-wackos support neither.

 

[mamooth]

It's a computer enhancement of the sidescan radar.

No, it barely resembles the radar scan. It's something that somebody drew up freehand, based on what they imagined the underwater alien city would look like.

New Underwater Finds Raise Questions About Flood Myths

"Cuba's Sunken City"

And there were lots of articles about the Face On Mars too. Hence, there must be a real giant face-shaped alien monument on Mars.

 

[westwall]

They can do whatever they want as long as it's not my money going into it...

Really? I don't know where you live, but I'm quite certain that you and your neighbors face certain threats from the environment: weather extremes, flooding, drought, earthquakes, even volcanoes. The federal government directly, and indirectly through assistance to your local governments, provides a number of supports to help you and the rest of your community deal with such threats. Why would you deny those sorts of services to others? You can hardly deny that the world's sea level is rising and that such a situation presents a threat to all coastal inhabitants.

I don't live there.

Yes you do. Both as an American and as a caring human being.

..get all them wealthy liberals/progressives together and ADAPT it

Natural disasters pay no mind to class or income. And an attitude like this is not the sort on which this nation was founded. It is the sort of attitude from which our founders fled and against which they and many generations of our forefathers have repeatedly fought.

Yes, the worlds sea level is rising so blindingly fast that there is no difference between a photograph taken of Ocean Beach, near San Diego, from one taken 100 years ago and today.

And you are correct, government does indeed put a lot of money out to help people in time of disaster. Sometimes it is money well spent and sometimes not. CAGW has no support either scientifically or historically.

You wish to forcefully take money from people, give it to a few already wealthy people and hope, hope, hope, that by doing that the global temperature will be one degree lower in 100 years.

All the while not being able to point to a single time in the past 8,000 years, when there have been times that it was MUCH warmer, that any of your catastrophes have occurred. Not one.

 

[Abraham3]

Yes, the worlds sea level is rising so blindingly fast that there is no difference between a photograph taken of Ocean Beach, near San Diego, from one taken 100 years ago and today.

So, based on this single pair of photographs you conclude that the world's sea level is NOT rising? That it will not continue to rise at an accelerating pace? Is that what you are saying? Based on this single pair of photographs you contend that the thousands of tidal gauge records, the satellite altimetry, the work of whole departments of degreed scientists are all false? Is that what you are saying?

And you are correct, government does indeed put a lot of money out to help people in time of disaster. Sometimes it is money well spent and sometimes not.

And... you here oppose such expenditures but you seem remarkably unwilling to say so outright.

CAGW has no support either scientifically or historically.

I have been a little puzzled at your use of the term "CAGW" and its use by several deniers at this forum when I know of not a single instance of any one of us here who agrees with the mainstream IPCC position EVER using the term. Could it be that you do not actually wish to reject AGW, only that it's harm will not come in a catastrophic fashion? Is that your position? Is that what we should assume when one of you tacks that "C" on there? I suspect so.

As to the statement itself: AGW has never taken place before. Thus there is no historical basis to accept or reject it. Scientific evidence, however, is mountainous. Once again I direct you to the more than 1500 pages of reference, analysis and discussion of the peer-reviewed work of thousands scientists which may be found in WG1 of AR5 at IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. To state there is no evidence is - undeniably - nothing more than a lie.

You wish to forcefully take money from people, give it to a few already wealthy people and hope, hope, hope, that by doing that the global temperature will be one degree lower in 100 years.

My position and that of others, that global warming represents an actual and significant threat to human well being and that governments should act to prevent it, is rational and extremely well supported by the evidence as well as by the opinions of the vast majority of the experts in the field. To characterize the position that our governments should take actions as you have done here: as taking money by force, is an empty and deceptive tactic which could be applied just as easily and just as accurately to medical research, to feeding starving children, to defending us from forest fires, to defending us from foreign aggression. And your contention that we seek to give money to "a few already wealthy people" is a complete and completely egregious fabrication. All the activities of government make use of funds acquired with the implicit threat of force: they call it taxation - and unless you are actually advocating complete and total anarchy, your position here is specious.

All the while not being able to point to a single time in the past 8,000 years, when there have been times that it was MUCH warmer, that any of your catastrophes have occurred. Not one.

At no time in the past 8,000 years or the past 800,000 have human actions presented ANY such threat, though you have to go back at least that far (the latter, not the former) and likely many times that far, to find CO2 levels as high as they are today. And at no time since the Chicxulub impact, 65 million years ago - an event that ended the 200 million year long age of the dinosaurs, can we find CO2 levels rising as rapidly as they are rising today. And I find it odd that you would here restrict yourself to 8,000 years of history when you have all repeatedly attempted to apply the planet's entire five billion year history as a basis for what would constitute an unprecedented situation. Looking at the complete history of life on this planet, there have been a multiplicity of occasions like the KT Event, when catastrophic climate change from a variety of causes have decimated life on this planet. The threat to our our well being that our climate has intermittently presented is not that it fails to be consistent but that it occasionally exercises that inconsistency at a pace too rapid for adaptation, for acclimatization, to take place. Life is the product of change, but it cannot survive if the rate of that change is too high. The rate of change the current situation will produce is just such an occasion. No one is predicting an extinction event. But changes that will cost the human species hundreds of trillions of dollars and the well being - the suffering and the lives - of billions of individuals are unavoidable under a continuation of the current scenario - a scenario you claim to prefer.

We must act. It is too late to prevent all suffering simply because in our innocent ignorance we have spent decades upon decades crafting our current future and a momentum that will not easily abate. But we CAN ease the harm, we can prevent some of the suffering and save some of the lives that the next few centuries under your scenario would cost. To fail to act in the face of overwhelming evidence and with complete disregard for the massive scale of harm your inaction will incur verges on a criminal assault against humanity. I firmly believe future generations: your children and their children for generations, will treat your posterity in precisely that manner.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL.

"Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars
Julian Ryall in Tokyo
for National Geographic News
September 19, 2007"

Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars

When the evidence refuses to support your theory, real scientists know it time for a new theory; the AGWCult on the other hand, alters, destroys or just plain ignores that evidence.

Oddly enough they look just like the natural formations in the same area that are above water. What an amazing coincidence!

Care to link to those. I can't find any.

I would not expect a 'true believer' to find any.

Robert M. Schoch: Yonaguni

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's a computer enhancement of the sidescan radar.

No, it barely resembles the radar scan. It's something that somebody drew up freehand, based on what they imagined the underwater alien city would look like.

New Underwater Finds Raise Questions About Flood Myths

"Cuba's Sunken City"

And there were lots of articles about the Face On Mars too. Hence, there must be a real giant face-shaped alien monument on Mars.

AGWCult Reality denial defense engaged.

It's not a sunken city because of Mann's tree rings

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The structures off Okinawa and Cuba, in the opinions of archaeologists and geologists that have examined the sites, are that they are geological. The one in Cuba is ridiculously deep to even consider it could be man made. The structure off Okinawa is virtually identical to structures ashore that are known to be natural.

If you want to see a city underwater, try Old Tyre in the Mediterranean or Port Royal, Jamaica. I am not denying that there are formerly coastal structures all over the world. But the only ones I know of that have been submerged solely by rising water would likely be those bronze age dwellings on the ancent shores of the Black Sea when what was formerly a medium large lake was catastrophically flooded by waters pouring through the newly formed Bosporus Straits. Sea levels have simply not risen sufficiently since humans began building durable structures. In some areas, subsidence can add enough change, but it is unlikely that 2 meters over 8,000 years is going to catch anyone unawares.

LOL.

"Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars
Julian Ryall in Tokyo
for National Geographic News
September 19, 2007"

Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars

When the evidence refuses to support your theory, real scientists know it time for a new theory; the AGWCult on the other hand, alters, destroys or just plain ignores that evidence.

Oddly enough they look just like the natural formations in the same area that are above water. What an amazing coincidence!

Wow.

But not surprising given that OldRocks is a 33rd Degree AGWCultist.

 

[Old Rocks]

They can do whatever they want as long as it's not my money going into it...

I don't live there...get all them wealthy liberals/progressives together and ADAPT it

Albert (bore) Gore for starters, the leader of the globull warming cult

People in singlewides don't pay taxes, anyway. What are you worried about

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's not a coincidence that every single denialist on this thread is a loony right-wing-extremist-cult crackpot. Outside of the kook right fringe in nations dominated by a nutty conservative English-speaking media, denialism essentially doesn't exist.

As I keep pointing out, denialism isn't the cult. Bitter nutball right-wing-extremism is the cult. Denialism is just one of the many crazy mantras that the righty cultists are required to chant. To them, this is entirely about finding reasons to hate liberals. They stink so badly at the science because they actively try to stink at it. Westwall here has enough intelligence to be smart about the topic if he wanted to. Instead, he's devoted all of his intelligence and energy into being stupid about it, because that's what his cult commands.

In contrast, AGW science is non-political, crossing all political boundaries all around the world. Because it's actual science. The denialists will keep trying to make it all about politics, but we rationalists will keep ignoring their deflections. Instead, we'll keep doing what enrages denialists the most, which is talk about the science and the data.

There's no such thing as "AGW science" the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

I have no doubt that when called to present your "evidence" before the APS, the AGWCult will scream "racism!" or some other irrelevant rant and run away claiming victory.

Michelson Morley missed a great opportunity in not calling Einstein and other scientists "Ether Deniers"

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL.

"Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars
Julian Ryall in Tokyo
for National Geographic News
September 19, 2007"

Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars

When the evidence refuses to support your theory, real scientists know it time for a new theory; the AGWCult on the other hand, alters, destroys or just plain ignores that evidence.

Oddly enough they look just like the natural formations in the same area that are above water. What an amazing coincidence!

Wow.

But not surprising given that OldRocks is a 33rd Degree AGWCultist.

Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars

"I'm not convinced that any of the major features or structures are manmade steps or terraces, but that they're all natural," said Robert Schoch, a professor of science and mathematics at Boston University who has dived at the site.

"It's basic geology and classic stratigraphy for sandstones, which tend to break along planes and give you these very straight edges, particularly in an area with lots of faults and tectonic activity."

And neither the Japanese government's Agency for Cultural Affairs nor the government of Okinawa Prefecture recognize the remains off Yonaguni as an important cultural property, said agency spokesperson Emiko Ishida.

 

[Old Rocks]

It's not a coincidence that every single denialist on this thread is a loony right-wing-extremist-cult crackpot. Outside of the kook right fringe in nations dominated by a nutty conservative English-speaking media, denialism essentially doesn't exist.

As I keep pointing out, denialism isn't the cult. Bitter nutball right-wing-extremism is the cult. Denialism is just one of the many crazy mantras that the righty cultists are required to chant. To them, this is entirely about finding reasons to hate liberals. They stink so badly at the science because they actively try to stink at it. Westwall here has enough intelligence to be smart about the topic if he wanted to. Instead, he's devoted all of his intelligence and energy into being stupid about it, because that's what his cult commands.

In contrast, AGW science is non-political, crossing all political boundaries all around the world. Because it's actual science. The denialists will keep trying to make it all about politics, but we rationalists will keep ignoring their deflections. Instead, we'll keep doing what enrages denialists the most, which is talk about the science and the data.

There's no such thing as "AGW science" the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

I have no doubt that when called to present your "evidence" before the APS, the AGWCult will scream "racism!" or some other irrelevant rant and run away claiming victory.

Michelson Morley missed a great opportunity in not calling Einstein and other scientists "Ether Deniers"

My, my, what is the American Physical Society's policy statement on Global Warming?

Climate Change

National Policy
07.1 CLIMATE CHANGE
(Adopted by Council on November 18, 2007)
Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.
The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring.
If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.
Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oddly enough they look just like the natural formations in the same area that are above water. What an amazing coincidence!

Wow.

But not surprising given that OldRocks is a 33rd Degree AGWCultist.

Japan's Ancient Underwater "Pyramid" Mystifies Scholars

"I'm not convinced that any of the major features or structures are manmade steps or terraces, but that they're all natural," said Robert Schoch, a professor of science and mathematics at Boston University who has dived at the site.

"It's basic geology and classic stratigraphy for sandstones, which tend to break along planes and give you these very straight edges, particularly in an area with lots of faults and tectonic activity."

And neither the Japanese government's Agency for Cultural Affairs nor the government of Okinawa Prefecture recognize the remains off Yonaguni as an important cultural property, said agency spokesperson Emiko Ishida.

Right. Because then they'd have to explain who built them and when. So, like you, better to just ignore the obvious

 

[mamooth]

Looks like the denialsts are now officially embracing underwater UFOlogy. It goes along well with their official embrace of the astrology used by the Farmer's Almanac.

Frank, do crystal healing powers, magnetic bracelets, homeopathy, reflexology and reincarnation also refute global warming? If you could, give us a list of all the fuzzyheaded touchyfeely woo that is now offically embraced by your cult.

 

[westwall]

Yes, the worlds sea level is rising so blindingly fast that there is no difference between a photograph taken of Ocean Beach, near San Diego, from one taken 100 years ago and today.

So, based on this single pair of photographs you conclude that the world's sea level is NOT rising? That it will not continue to rise at an accelerating pace? Is that what you are saying? Based on this single pair of photographs you contend that the thousands of tidal gauge records, the satellite altimetry, the work of whole departments of degreed scientists are all false? Is that what you are saying?

And you are correct, government does indeed put a lot of money out to help people in time of disaster. Sometimes it is money well spent and sometimes not.

And... you here oppose such expenditures but you seem remarkably unwilling to say so outright.



I have been a little puzzled at your use of the term "CAGW" and its use by several deniers at this forum when I know of not a single instance of any one of us here who agrees with the mainstream IPCC position EVER using the term. Could it be that you do not actually wish to reject AGW, only that it's harm will not come in a catastrophic fashion? Is that your position? Is that what we should assume when one of you tacks that "C" on there? I suspect so.

As to the statement itself: AGW has never taken place before. Thus there is no historical basis to accept or reject it. Scientific evidence, however, is mountainous. Once again I direct you to the more than 1500 pages of reference, analysis and discussion of the peer-reviewed work of thousands scientists which may be found in WG1 of AR5 at IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. To state there is no evidence is - undeniably - nothing more than a lie.

You wish to forcefully take money from people, give it to a few already wealthy people and hope, hope, hope, that by doing that the global temperature will be one degree lower in 100 years.

My position and that of others, that global warming represents an actual and significant threat to human well being and that governments should act to prevent it, is rational and extremely well supported by the evidence as well as by the opinions of the vast majority of the experts in the field. To characterize the position that our governments should take actions as you have done here: as taking money by force, is an empty and deceptive tactic which could be applied just as easily and just as accurately to medical research, to feeding starving children, to defending us from forest fires, to defending us from foreign aggression. And your contention that we seek to give money to "a few already wealthy people" is a complete and completely egregious fabrication. All the activities of government make use of funds acquired with the implicit threat of force: they call it taxation - and unless you are actually advocating complete and total anarchy, your position here is specious.

All the while not being able to point to a single time in the past 8,000 years, when there have been times that it was MUCH warmer, that any of your catastrophes have occurred. Not one.

At no time in the past 8,000 years or the past 800,000 have human actions presented ANY such threat, though you have to go back at least that far (the latter, not the former) and likely many times that far, to find CO2 levels as high as they are today. And at no time since the Chicxulub impact, 65 million years ago - an event that ended the 200 million year long age of the dinosaurs, can we find CO2 levels rising as rapidly as they are rising today. And I find it odd that you would here restrict yourself to 8,000 years of history when you have all repeatedly attempted to apply the planet's entire five billion year history as a basis for what would constitute an unprecedented situation. Looking at the complete history of life on this planet, there have been a multiplicity of occasions like the KT Event, when catastrophic climate change from a variety of causes have decimated life on this planet. The threat to our our well being that our climate has intermittently presented is not that it fails to be consistent but that it occasionally exercises that inconsistency at a pace too rapid for adaptation, for acclimatization, to take place. Life is the product of change, but it cannot survive if the rate of that change is too high. The rate of change the current situation will produce is just such an occasion. No one is predicting an extinction event. But changes that will cost the human species hundreds of trillions of dollars and the well being - the suffering and the lives - of billions of individuals are unavoidable under a continuation of the current scenario - a scenario you claim to prefer.

We must act. It is too late to prevent all suffering simply because in our innocent ignorance we have spent decades upon decades crafting our current future and a momentum that will not easily abate. But we CAN ease the harm, we can prevent some of the suffering and save some of the lives that the next few centuries under your scenario would cost. To fail to act in the face of overwhelming evidence and with complete disregard for the massive scale of harm your inaction will incur verges on a criminal assault against humanity. I firmly believe future generations: your children and their children for generations, will treat your posterity in precisely that manner.

How many times has the temperature in the last 8000 years been warmer than the current time? I'll give you a clue....it is 4 times. Did ANY of the catastrophes you claim we will cause, occur then? If they didn't occur then, why not? Is it only because man is around that such a catastrophe can occur now? Now that someone is here to hear it the tree falling in the wood can finally be heard... is that what you're claiming?

 

[Old Rocks]

Links to prove how many times it has been warmer than at present? How many times has the CO2 and CH4 levels been where they are today in the last 8000 years? And I expect both will double what they are today before we do anything.

The warming from the present levels of GHGs is just starting. It will be another 50 years before we feel the full impact of what is in the atmosphere today, and, by then, there will be a lot more for the next 50 years.

In the last interglacial, there was a period when the CO2 level was about 300 ppm. The sea level was 3 to 6 meters higher than today. Today the CO2 level is at 400 ppm. And the climate has not had time to adjust. But it will.

 

[Kosh]

Once again the far left/AGW cultists making an invalid argument.

Sea levels have been on the rise long before the AGW propaganda came along.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Looks like the denialsts are now officially embracing underwater UFOlogy. It goes along well with their official embrace of the astrology used by the Farmer's Almanac.

Frank, do crystal healing powers, magnetic bracelets, homeopathy, reflexology and reincarnation also refute global warming? If you could, give us a list of all the fuzzyheaded touchyfeely woo that is now offically embraced by your cult.

Your lack of any real scientific evidence refuted "global warming" as a theory.

Pointing out that the sea levels have varied greatly through human history is just icing on the cake.

Walk me through the presentation you and Neil would make before the APS.

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's not a coincidence that every single denialist on this thread is a loony right-wing-extremist-cult crackpot. Outside of the kook right fringe in nations dominated by a nutty conservative English-speaking media, denialism essentially doesn't exist.

As I keep pointing out, denialism isn't the cult. Bitter nutball right-wing-extremism is the cult. Denialism is just one of the many crazy mantras that the righty cultists are required to chant. To them, this is entirely about finding reasons to hate liberals. They stink so badly at the science because they actively try to stink at it. Westwall here has enough intelligence to be smart about the topic if he wanted to. Instead, he's devoted all of his intelligence and energy into being stupid about it, because that's what his cult commands.

In contrast, AGW science is non-political, crossing all political boundaries all around the world. Because it's actual science. The denialists will keep trying to make it all about politics, but we rationalists will keep ignoring their deflections. Instead, we'll keep doing what enrages denialists the most, which is talk about the science and the data.

There's no such thing as "AGW science" the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

I have no doubt that when called to present your "evidence" before the APS, the AGWCult will scream "racism!" or some other irrelevant rant and run away claiming victory.

Michelson Morley missed a great opportunity in not calling Einstein and other scientists "Ether Deniers"

My, my, what is the American Physical Society's policy statement on Global Warming?

Climate Change

National Policy
07.1 CLIMATE CHANGE
(Adopted by Council on November 18, 2007)
Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.
The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring.
If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.
Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.

That's why you guys are so fucked now. You essentially faked that the APS backed your theory and all you did was embarrass people who do real science 24/7.

What evidence will the Warmers present

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk