Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[Ravi]

Blacks and minorities are disproportionately represented in abortion...but the truth is, we have no way to keep track of the numbers because the ABORTION CLINICS WON'T PROVIDE THEM. All this theorizing about the stupid poor people needing to have their children aborted to keep them from hurting them is pure hogwash and comes straight from the brain-washed echoing brain pans of eugenecists who show time and again what they really want is forced sterilization, control and the eventual elimination of the unwashed masses.

Another interesting tidbit..one of the factoids we actually DO have about abortion is a HUGE number (also disproportionate to the whole) of girls who get abortions have much, MUCH older (and often married) **** buddies.

It's old men getting young girls pregnant. You, of all people, Ravi, should want to put an end to that. You had such a cow over the idea of girls under 18 getting married in the FLDS church. You were ready to de-ball those guys without a trial or anything else.

Old guys having sex with underage girls should be put in jail. That's a separate topic from the abortion topic.

 

[catzmeow]

This publication also mentions it: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/190106.pdf

If you see page 4 of that publication, the risk factors for gang involvement are listed. The risk factors for delinquency are similar, as are the risk factors for teen parents and/or drug/alcohol use.

If you look at single parents, you will see that they rate a 2.4, which puts that risk factor in the middle of the pack, on par with parental attitudes favorable to anti-social behavior, for instance, in terms of risk. It is not THE MOST SEVERE risk factor, nor is it the least. It is of medium impact.

And, the issue with most young people and high risk behaviors is that it is an ACCUMULATION of risk factors that is really what matters.

So, it is something to be considered. It is not the worst thing in the world, but it definitely has impact.

Thus, single parents need to be aware that it poses a challenge for their children, and take steps to MITIGATE the impact of this risk factor. That can be done by having a high level of bonding with your children (a protective factor), being an effective parent (another protective factor), giving your children opportunities to have pro-social responsibilities and a voice in their family's activities (another protective factor), giving them rewards for positive accomplishment (another protective factor), supporting their school endeavors, etc.

From my perspective, it is important to realize that it exists and assure that your children don't accumulate ADDITIONAL risk factors that will also impact them negatively, if that makes sense.

 

[catzmeow]

lol, that's some pretty creative spin. Doesn't matter if their grandma is the Queen of England, if they are living below the poverty level they are poor. Just wanted to point out that your statement that it is mostly upper income white women having abortions was incorrect.

Actually, no it isn't, if they are of college age (and that is the age group that gets the most abortions). Many 22-year-old girls, on their own income, would count as "low-income," but are being supported by relatively wealthy parents.

The key is that 80% of women who obtain abortions aren't doing so because of financial difficulties.

 

[catzmeow]

No, it isn't a major risk factor but you'd be surprised to learn that many wingnuts think it is...there's a big shortage of critical thinking out there.

Actually it IS a MAJOR risk factor, but it has the most impact when coupled with other risk factors. However, I am not going to defend an extreme position that does not represent critical thought on the matter or my own opinion.

 

[AllieBaba]

lol, that's some pretty creative spin. Doesn't matter if their grandma is the Queen of England, if they are living below the poverty level they are poor. Just wanted to point out that your statement that it is mostly upper income white women having abortions was incorrect.

Actually, no it isn't, if they are of college age (and that is the age group that gets the most abortions). Many 22-year-old girls, on their own income, would count as "low-income," but are being supported by relatively wealthy parents.

The key is that 80% of women who obtain abortions aren't doing so because of financial difficulties.

And the women that the left hates so, the ones who will hurt their children if they have them, the ones the left thinks should be sterilized and not permitted to breed...they aren't interested in getting abortions.

 

[Againsheila]

They are saying they want to kill their babies is what they're saying.

In your mind they probably are. But that isn't the reality of the situation

Babble, is it really that difficult for you to put yourself in someone else's shoes?

Like I said before, I have a hard time with it being strictly up to the woman as to the difference between a baby and a fetus. A woman can abort at 6 months, if a man were to force her to abort (ie, kick her in the stomach etc.) in some states, he can be charged with murder. How is that fair?

Either it's a fetus or a baby, it can't be one or the other depending solely on the mother's say so.

I think we need some new laws on that.

Can you imagine being a man and knowing that your girlfriend/wife/ex, aborted your child when you wanted that child?

Abortion, like suicide, is something you can't take back. I know several women who've had abortions and with one exception, they've all regretted it. The one exception has had multiple abortions and uses it as a form of birth control, her ONLY form of birth control.

 

[Againsheila]

Talk about victimology.

I work with the research on risk factors every day. It would be intellectually retarded for me to fail to recognize that being a single parent puts my children more at risk.

How do you know the risk factor isn't attributed to the teens having a parent or parents that are criminals themselves? Or how do you know the risk factor isn't poverty?

You make a lot of assumptions based on your personal interactions but it is quite possible you are only seeing what you want to see.

Saw a talk show one day. A bunch of unwed pregnant teens and their mothers. All of their mothers had them when they were unwed teens. All but one of the teens wanted to have and keep the baby. The other one had agreed to an open adoption because she said she could never give her child what she deserved. All of the mother's of the teens were against their daughters having the babies but all of the teens said basically, "Well, you did it, why can't I?"

Kids learn by example, not by the Simon Says method.

 

[AllieBaba]

It comes from the left who wants some crimes to be okay, provided they think they're justifiable. They pretend the objection to abortion from the right comes from a desire to "control" people, when it's just the opposite. We adamantly refuse to accept that murder is "okay" so long as it's an unwanted population. Abortion is population control, and it's murder besides. And that is why the right is against it. It isn't because we want to "force" women to have children. It's because we will protect children regardless of the idiotic justifications the left comes up with to kill them, and no matter how the left tries to sexualize and reduce the value of children.

They are people, they're valuable, and we don't have the right to kill them just because they're an annoyance.

 

[Againsheila]

You think living with the consequences of your actions is punishment?

thank you for proving my point.

And who cares what "these kids" are told when they get older? When you boil it down the "reason" any of us were, are or will be born is because two people had intercourse.

And please tell me where I said a child was a punishment. What I said was:

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market

How in your mind does that equal saying a child is punishment?

Not in my mind, but apparently in yours. "******* mistake". Is that what you would name your kid?

So one cannot become pregnant via a mistake? I never said the child was a mistake.

Let me use small words so you understand.

If a young man or woman find themselves in a situation where an unplanned pregnancy occurs, a mistake if you will, they should be held 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

that means if abortion is their choice, they and they alone pay for it.

That means if they choose to give the resulting offspring up for adoption, they pay for 100% of the care until the adoption is final.

Is that so hard to understand?

The correct verbiage... is "surprise". When my cousin got pregnant with her 3rd child, they called her a surprise.

 

[Againsheila]

So one cannot become pregnant via a mistake? I never said the child was a mistake.

Let me use small words so you understand.

If a young man or woman find themselves in a situation where an unplanned pregnancy occurs, a mistake if you will, they should be held 100% responsible for the consequences of their actions.

that means if abortion is their choice, they and they alone pay for it.

That means if they choose to give the resulting offspring up for adoption, they pay for 100% of the care until the adoption is final.

Is that so hard to understand?

Repeating for the second time, your own words:

"Maybe if we let these young adults have to live with the consequences of their actions, you know no free abortions, no safe haven laws, etc.

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market ."

That punishes the babies. Are those words and are innocent babies small enough for you?

I'm all for safe haven laws...and making adoption easier and quicker. Children should never have to pay for their parents actions.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Surprisingly, this wiki does a good job of describing risks associated with single parents:

Single parent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Single parent families are at a higher risk of poverty than couple families, and on average single mothers have poorer health than couple mothers [2].

Single parenting is strongly associated with an increased risk of a number of negative social, behavioral and emotional outcomes for children. However while the association is strong, on balance the effect size and the actual numbers affected are modest. Most children from single parent families do well. Many factors influence how children develop in single-parent families: the parent's age, education level, and occupation; the family's income, and the family's support network of friends and extended family members (including the non-resident parent, if available). Disadvantages in these factors that often accompany single parenting appear to cause most of this association rather than single parenting itself [13] [14].

Shocking headlines do get published; for example a 2003 Swedish study, stated that those living with a single parent were about three times more likely to either kill themselves or end up in the hospital after an attempted suicide by the age of 26 than children living with two parents, however this only happened to 2.2 percent of girls and 1 percent of boys [15]. While such a finding is concerning, clearly the vast majority of the children of single parents do not kill themselves and are underrepresented.

A variety of viewpoints do exist, with different readings of the research possible. The Institute for the Study of Civil Society reports that children of single parents, after controlling for other variables like family income, are more likely to have problems [16]. There are impacts of sole parenting on children, however the weight of the evidence does not appear to support a view that sole parents are a major cause of societal ills and are doing irreparable damage to their children [14].

I strongly agree with the last sentence, btw. There ARE impacts. However, it is not the MAJOR risk factor for any youth high risk behavior by itself. It is, however, part of the picture.

No, it isn't a major risk factor but you'd be surprised to learn that many wingnuts think it is...there's a big shortage of critical thinking out there.

You're not kidding. Wingnuts substitute insults for facts.

 

[Ravi]

lol, that's some pretty creative spin. Doesn't matter if their grandma is the Queen of England, if they are living below the poverty level they are poor. Just wanted to point out that your statement that it is mostly upper income white women having abortions was incorrect.

Actually, no it isn't, if they are of college age (and that is the age group that gets the most abortions). Many 22-year-old girls, on their own income, would count as "low-income," but are being supported by relatively wealthy parents.

The key is that 80% of women who obtain abortions aren't doing so because of financial difficulties.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, please show us. Your statement that the majority of those getting abortions are upper income white women is laughable...you are basing it on some notion that mainly white college girls get abortions. So prove it.

 

[Ravi]

No, it isn't a major risk factor but you'd be surprised to learn that many wingnuts think it is...there's a big shortage of critical thinking out there.

Actually it IS a MAJOR risk factor, but it has the most impact when coupled with other risk factors. However, I am not going to defend an extreme position that does not represent critical thought on the matter or my own opinion.

Both your links proved otherwise.

 

[Ravi]

It comes from the left who wants some crimes to be okay, provided they think they're justifiable. They pretend the objection to abortion from the right comes from a desire to "control" people, when it's just the opposite. We adamantly refuse to accept that murder is "okay" so long as it's an unwanted population. Abortion is population control, and it's murder besides. And that is why the right is against it. It isn't because we want to "force" women to have children. It's because we will protect children regardless of the idiotic justifications the left comes up with to kill them, and no matter how the left tries to sexualize and reduce the value of children.

They are people, they're valuable, and we don't have the right to kill them just because they're an annoyance.

Horse kick you in the head again?

 

[AllieBaba]

lol, that's some pretty creative spin. Doesn't matter if their grandma is the Queen of England, if they are living below the poverty level they are poor. Just wanted to point out that your statement that it is mostly upper income white women having abortions was incorrect.

Actually, no it isn't, if they are of college age (and that is the age group that gets the most abortions). Many 22-year-old girls, on their own income, would count as "low-income," but are being supported by relatively wealthy parents.

The key is that 80% of women who obtain abortions aren't doing so because of financial difficulties.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, please show us. Your statement that the majority of those getting abortions are upper income white women is laughable...you are basing it on some notion that mainly white college girls get abortions. So prove it.

You can't prove anything about the numbers. Your theories are laughable, and the only numbers that exist are amorphous, to say the least. The college girl theory is based upon polling. And we all know how polling works.

 

[AllieBaba]

It comes from the left who wants some crimes to be okay, provided they think they're justifiable. They pretend the objection to abortion from the right comes from a desire to "control" people, when it's just the opposite. We adamantly refuse to accept that murder is "okay" so long as it's an unwanted population. Abortion is population control, and it's murder besides. And that is why the right is against it. It isn't because we want to "force" women to have children. It's because we will protect children regardless of the idiotic justifications the left comes up with to kill them, and no matter how the left tries to sexualize and reduce the value of children.

They are people, they're valuable, and we don't have the right to kill them just because they're an annoyance.

Horse kick you in the head again?

It says volumes about you that you consider anyone who states they will defend children as somehow deficient.

And no, I don't get kicked by my horses. I know how to handle them.

 

[Amanda]

Why do good conversations always have to turn into mudslinging contests?

 

[AllieBaba]

"Women who obtained legal abortions in 1995 were predominately white and unmarried. As in 1994, one fifth of women who obtained legal abortions in 1995 were adolescents (aged less than or equal to 19 years); 33% were aged 20-24 years. Curettage (suction and sharp) remained the primary abortion procedure (99% of all procedures). As in previous years, more than half of legal abortions (54%) were performed during the first 8 weeks of gestation; specifically, 16% were at less than or equal to 6 weeks; 17% at 7 weeks; and 21% at 8 weeks. Approximately 88% of abortions were performed during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy."

".....However, approximately 36% of abortions were reported from states without centralized reporting of abortions (four states) or from states whose state health departments did not collect, and therefore could not provide, information about characteristics (e.g., age or race) of women obtaining legal abortions (four states). To assist efforts to prevent unintended pregnancy, each state needs an accurate assessment of abortion on an ongoing basis (including the number and characteristics of women obtaining legal abortions)."



Reported by: Statistics and Computer Resources Br, Div of Reproductive Health, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, CDC.
Abortion Statistics - United States.

 

[catzmeow]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, please show us. Your statement that the majority of those getting abortions are upper income white women is laughable...you are basing it on some notion that mainly white college girls get abortions. So prove it.

I admitted that I was wrong on the white versus minority issue, but in surveys (and I saw this on your link, AND mine), only 21% of women said they were getting abortions for financial reasons.

Of course, you realize that if you look in the footnotes of the link you provided that the racial demographics come from a very indirect method because the abortion industry WANTS to portray itself as eradicating poor minorities who shouldn't be breeding anyway.

And, I'm not even exaggerating here.

 

[AllieBaba]

The majority of women who get abortions ARE grown white women, many, many are married and/or attending school.

Blacks and minorities are disproportionately represented...but they are not the majority of those getting abortions.