Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[catzmeow]

How does being forced to live in poverty and in the complete control of a mother who did not want you equate to being allowed to live? Do you think those are conditions which promote life?

False dichotomy. The majority of women who choose to have abortions are upper income whites. Furthermore, you are presuming that a woman who doesn't have an abortion will elect to raise the child herself.

Maybe rent Juno and see if you can think of another possibility.

 

[catzmeow]

When the responsibility is forced and shoved off onto them it's very bad for the baby. Ever hear of child abuse and infanticide?

You are nothing more than a standard issue suburban white shill for the abortion industry repeating misinformation as if it were fact.

The vast majority of abortions in this country are by white women, most of whom are not living in poverty. POOR MINORITY WOMEN are far more likely to give birth than upper income women.

But, I love how you equate poverty with child abuse and infanticide. The poor are just evil, aren't they? Your arrogance is astounding. It's good that they have middle class white women like you, Anguille, to protect them from themselves.

You're no different Margaret Sanger, it appears. And you've bought her eugenics-based approach to population control hook, line and sinker.

Furthermore, there are other options besides giving birth and abusing the child. Adoption, for one.

 

[Ravi]

How does being forced to live in poverty and in the complete control of a mother who did not want you equate to being allowed to live? Do you think those are conditions which promote life?

False dichotomy. The majority of women who choose to have abortions are upper income whites. Furthermore, you are presuming that a woman who doesn't have an abortion will elect to raise the child herself.

Maybe rent Juno and see if you can think of another possibility.

That's just not true, Kitty.

WHO HAS ABORTIONS?

• Fifty percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 17%.[7]
• Thirty-seven percent of abortions occur to black women, 34% to non-Hispanic white women, 22% to Hispanic women and 8% to women of other races.**
• Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic.[3]
• Women who have never married obtain two-thirds of all abortions.[3]
• About 60% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children.[7]
• The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women[3,1]
• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[8]

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

 

[Ravi]

Talk about victimology.

I work with the research on risk factors every day. It would be intellectually retarded for me to fail to recognize that being a single parent puts my children more at risk.

How do you know the risk factor isn't attributed to the teens having a parent or parents that are criminals themselves? Or how do you know the risk factor isn't poverty?

You make a lot of assumptions based on your personal interactions but it is quite possible you are only seeing what you want to see.

 

[catzmeow]

How do you know the risk factor isn't attributed to the teens having a parent or parents that are criminals themselves? Or how do you know the risk factor isn't poverty?

You make a lot of assumptions based on your personal interactions but it is quite possible you are only seeing what you want to see.

There are multiple risk factors that impact children. Family norms that condone anti-social behavior is indeed one. Poverty is another one (though it is far less strong in terms of effect).

If you want to learn more about risk factors (there are dozens), look up Hawkins & Catellano.

 

[catzmeow]

My bad, Ravi. However, poverty is NOT the most compelling issue in abortions:

Women who have abortions tend to be low income, but that could be a
factor of their age rather than their poverty status. 57% of women who seek an abortion have incomes that are below twice the federal
poverty level. However, the portrait that it paints of them as poor could be misleading. 52% of women who have an abortion are under the age of 25. Young people simply earn less than older people and single people earn far less than married people. For example, a 2003 census bureau study found that those under 25 with a bachelor’s degree earned on average $22,000 while those between 25 and 29 with the same degree earned $39,000.x Thus, these women could have low incomes, but they could
also have wealthy or middle class parents.

• Only one in four women who sought an abortion had income levels above 300% of poverty ($42,000).
• Only 21% of women said inadequate finances was the main reason for choosing an abortion.xi

http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/17/demographics_of_abortion.pdf

And, whites account for 41% of abortions.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Good for you, kits, you admitted a mistake. I'm proud of you.

 

[catzmeow]

Good for you, kits, you admitted a mistake. I'm proud of you.

Shut the **** up, you self-absorbed lint licker. Was I talking to you?

 

[Andrew2382]

Good for you, kits, you admitted a mistake. I'm proud of you.

Shut the **** up, you self-absorbed lint licker. Was I talking to you?

edit:

aww Catz...I liked the original version more

 

[catzmeow]

aww Catz...I liked the original version more

Me too, but I'm trying to be a pacifist here, Andrew.

 

[Andrew2382]

aww Catz...I liked the original version more

Me too, but I'm trying to be a pacifist here, Andrew.

always go with your gut instinct, it tends to be right

 

[catzmeow]

always go with your gut instinct, it tends to be right

My first instinct was "gash." But then, I felt it might be perceived as being too emulative of Manifold. Also, I like the almost but not quite a lesbian slur of "lint licker."

 

[Ravi]

How do you know the risk factor isn't attributed to the teens having a parent or parents that are criminals themselves? Or how do you know the risk factor isn't poverty?

You make a lot of assumptions based on your personal interactions but it is quite possible you are only seeing what you want to see.

There are multiple risk factors that impact children. Family norms that condone anti-social behavior is indeed one. Poverty is another one (though it is far less strong in terms of effect).

If you want to learn more about risk factors (there are dozens), look up Hawkins & Catellano.

I couldn't find the one that said single parents were a risk factor. Could you give me a link?

 

[Andrew2382]

always go with your gut instinct, it tends to be right

My first instinct was "gash." But then, I felt it might be perceived as being too emulative of Manifold. Also, I like the almost but not quite a lesbian slur of "lint licker."

Yes, i see what you did there

Bravo

 

[Ravi]

My bad, Ravi. However, poverty is NOT the most compelling issue in abortions:

Women who have abortions tend to be low income, but that could be a
factor of their age rather than their poverty status. 57% of women who seek an abortion have incomes that are below twice the federal
poverty level. However, the portrait that it paints of them as poor could be misleading. 52% of women who have an abortion are under the age of 25. Young people simply earn less than older people and single people earn far less than married people. For example, a 2003 census bureau study found that those under 25 with a bachelor’s degree earned on average $22,000 while those between 25 and 29 with the same degree earned $39,000.x Thus, these women could have low incomes, but they could
also have wealthy or middle class parents.

• Only one in four women who sought an abortion had income levels above 300% of poverty ($42,000).
• Only 21% of women said inadequate finances was the main reason for choosing an abortion.xi

http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/17/demographics_of_abortion.pdf

And, whites account for 41% of abortions.

lol, that's some pretty creative spin. Doesn't matter if their grandma is the Queen of England, if they are living below the poverty level they are poor. Just wanted to point out that your statement that it is mostly upper income white women having abortions was incorrect.

 

[xsited1]

What a great pick-up line: "Abstinence is not realistic."

Look, everybody is doing it and as long as we use protection we should be fine. After all, "Abstinence is not realistic." Ha!

 

[catzmeow]

Surprisingly, this wiki does a good job of describing risks associated with single parents:

Single parent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Single parent families are at a higher risk of poverty than couple families, and on average single mothers have poorer health than couple mothers [2].

Single parenting is strongly associated with an increased risk of a number of negative social, behavioral and emotional outcomes for children. However while the association is strong, on balance the effect size and the actual numbers affected are modest. Most children from single parent families do well. Many factors influence how children develop in single-parent families: the parent's age, education level, and occupation; the family's income, and the family's support network of friends and extended family members (including the non-resident parent, if available). Disadvantages in these factors that often accompany single parenting appear to cause most of this association rather than single parenting itself [13] [14].

Shocking headlines do get published; for example a 2003 Swedish study, stated that those living with a single parent were about three times more likely to either kill themselves or end up in the hospital after an attempted suicide by the age of 26 than children living with two parents, however this only happened to 2.2 percent of girls and 1 percent of boys [15]. While such a finding is concerning, clearly the vast majority of the children of single parents do not kill themselves and are underrepresented.

A variety of viewpoints do exist, with different readings of the research possible. The Institute for the Study of Civil Society reports that children of single parents, after controlling for other variables like family income, are more likely to have problems [16]. There are impacts of sole parenting on children, however the weight of the evidence does not appear to support a view that sole parents are a major cause of societal ills and are doing irreparable damage to their children [14].

I strongly agree with the last sentence, btw. There ARE impacts. However, it is not the MAJOR risk factor for any youth high risk behavior by itself. It is, however, part of the picture.

 

[AllieBaba]

Blacks and minorities are disproportionately represented in abortion...but the truth is, we have no way to keep track of the numbers because the ABORTION CLINICS WON'T PROVIDE THEM. All this theorizing about the stupid poor people needing to have their children aborted to keep them from hurting them is pure hogwash and comes straight from the brain-washed echoing brain pans of eugenecists who show time and again what they really want is forced sterilization, control and the eventual elimination of the unwashed masses.

Another interesting tidbit..one of the factoids we actually DO have about abortion is a HUGE number (also disproportionate to the whole) of girls who get abortions have much, MUCH older (and often married) **** buddies.

It's old men getting young girls pregnant. You, of all people, Ravi, should want to put an end to that. You had such a cow over the idea of girls under 18 getting married in the FLDS church. You were ready to de-ball those guys without a trial or anything else.

 

[Andrew2382]

I was always a fan of

if your left leg is christmas and right leg is new years, can I vist you in between the holidays?

 

[Ravi]

Surprisingly, this wiki does a good job of describing risks associated with single parents:

Single parent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Single parent families are at a higher risk of poverty than couple families, and on average single mothers have poorer health than couple mothers [2].

Single parenting is strongly associated with an increased risk of a number of negative social, behavioral and emotional outcomes for children. However while the association is strong, on balance the effect size and the actual numbers affected are modest. Most children from single parent families do well. Many factors influence how children develop in single-parent families: the parent's age, education level, and occupation; the family's income, and the family's support network of friends and extended family members (including the non-resident parent, if available). Disadvantages in these factors that often accompany single parenting appear to cause most of this association rather than single parenting itself [13] [14].

Shocking headlines do get published; for example a 2003 Swedish study, stated that those living with a single parent were about three times more likely to either kill themselves or end up in the hospital after an attempted suicide by the age of 26 than children living with two parents, however this only happened to 2.2 percent of girls and 1 percent of boys [15]. While such a finding is concerning, clearly the vast majority of the children of single parents do not kill themselves and are underrepresented.

A variety of viewpoints do exist, with different readings of the research possible. The Institute for the Study of Civil Society reports that children of single parents, after controlling for other variables like family income, are more likely to have problems [16]. There are impacts of sole parenting on children, however the weight of the evidence does not appear to support a view that sole parents are a major cause of societal ills and are doing irreparable damage to their children [14].

I strongly agree with the last sentence, btw. There ARE impacts. However, it is not the MAJOR risk factor for any youth high risk behavior by itself. It is, however, part of the picture.

No, it isn't a major risk factor but you'd be surprised to learn that many wingnuts think it is...there's a big shortage of critical thinking out there.