Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[AllieBaba]

My sister got pregnant using a diaphram.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Naw. You're not worth it. Calling me a 'rug muncher' isn't worthy of a lawsuit. It just demonstrate that when you lose your temper with lesbians you tend to use angry slurs. Your homophobia shows.

trt to be accurate. i called you a *rug*muncher-you know, like a carpetgobbler.
i don't lose my temper, but you keep whining about it if it makes you feel better. i'm laughing at you, you buffoon, and the fact that your gay menas less than nothing to me. is this starting to sink in yet?

Yeah, it means nothing--that's because you're a liar.

rug muncher:

1. A person who performs cunninlingus; a cunnilinctor . See cunnilinctor or cunnilinctrice for synonyms.
2. Disparaging appellation for a lesbian .



that why you had to forward my pms to all your friends for a laugh. Is that starting to sink in yet?

oh oh.....i guess i belong to that club.....and guess what.....there is a long line of guys behind me....real long.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I have no doubt I'm hetero, I just did some things in the past that I wouldn't have done if I was sober. I'll pick it up with you later, it's getting harder and harder to type anything coherent. Thank God for red underlined squigglies or this would all be complete gibberish like I posted last night.

If you've no doubt you're heterosexual, why are you interested in the sex life of someoone who is a complete stranger to you.

Why are you interested in lesbian sex?

I suggest watching some movies. Maybe it just turns you on and you and your boyfriend can watch some and make nice vanilla heterosexual sex.

No... it doesn't turn me on... I don't think... er... maybe.

I was going to do this between just us but since you bring it up and I don't give a ****...

I have made out with a few girls and a few times did um... a little more.

I like the way girls kiss and touch me. But I don't know it's just wrong. I don't know why but I feel so dirty for even doing it beside enjoying it. I was hoping we would talk about it and you could tell me why you think it's ok and I could make some sense of it and rationalize it so I didn't feel the way I do. More than just making out I like boys better. I like the power and strength of a man, I don't know hpow to describe it, it just mke sme breathless. But therewas something about the gentleness of girls that I can't get out of my mind. I don't think it's natural or right and it makes me feel a little sick at the same time but I wish boys could be... I dunno just more like girls with me at first.

I like the way boys smell. Girls semms I don't know artificial to me, cos maybe I know the work they put in but I know how boys are they just ARE so it's like all so real.

I dunno does any of this make sense? It doen't to me.

look now im popping a woody reading this shit,and then i see Amandas avitar...............................................................................................................

 

[catzmeow]

pearls of wisdom

Is that a new euphemism for boobs?

 

[catzmeow]

I'd hyperventilate or die in the midwest.

Well, hello Princess Hyperbole of the Republic of Dramalia.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You bet, catz. If you want to banish me to hell send me to the midwest.

 

[Againsheila]

What a shame. Did Anne Coulter write it?

I think if your daughter respects you, she will respect your opinion. Also, if she respects herself, there is less sex with boys just to validate your self worth.


So, is it true what they say?

Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder?

Your ignorance is showing. Obviously you've never worked with women and girls who have absent or loser fathers.

Thank you Allie, how sweet of you to say that!

No, I am just raising a daughter whose father has choosen not to be in her life since she was 2, so I think I DO know what I'm talking about.

Yes, boys and girls need a father and a mother, but sometimes life doesn't work out that way. Do you know any single parents Allie?

Yes, a child raised by two parents does better on every measurable level than a child raised by one parent. I think it's important to accept that fact. I also think it's important to realize that some people are single parents, not by choice, and they are doing the best they can. A child without a father in the home also does better if there is a father figure in their life, grandpa, neighbor, whatever. And yes, some single parents can overcome the handicap of being a single parent and do wonders with their kids, but it's not easy nor is it a given.

 

[Anguille]

Your ignorance is showing. Obviously you've never worked with women and girls who have absent or loser fathers.

Thank you Allie, how sweet of you to say that!

No, I am just raising a daughter whose father has choosen not to be in her life since she was 2, so I think I DO know what I'm talking about.

Yes, boys and girls need a father and a mother, but sometimes life doesn't work out that way. Do you know any single parents Allie?

Yes, a child raised by two parents does better on every measurable level than a child raised by one parent. I think it's important to accept that fact. I also think it's important to realize that some people are single parents, not by choice, and they are doing the best they can. A child without a father in the home also does better if there is a father figure in their life, grandpa, neighbor, whatever. And yes, some single parents can overcome the handicap of being a single parent and do wonders with their kids, but it's not easy nor is it a given.

Nor is it a given that two parents in an unhappy marriage can overcome that handicap and provide a good home and good examples.
Father figures need not be fathers. Even in homes with a father, the father figure is not necessarily the father. Grandfathers, older brothers, uncles even a teacher can fill that role.

 

[Againsheila]

Thank you Allie, how sweet of you to say that!

No, I am just raising a daughter whose father has choosen not to be in her life since she was 2, so I think I DO know what I'm talking about.

Yes, boys and girls need a father and a mother, but sometimes life doesn't work out that way. Do you know any single parents Allie?

Yes, a child raised by two parents does better on every measurable level than a child raised by one parent. I think it's important to accept that fact. I also think it's important to realize that some people are single parents, not by choice, and they are doing the best they can. A child without a father in the home also does better if there is a father figure in their life, grandpa, neighbor, whatever. And yes, some single parents can overcome the handicap of being a single parent and do wonders with their kids, but it's not easy nor is it a given.

Nor is it a given that two parents in an unhappy marriage can overcome that handicap and provide a good home and good examples.
Father figures need not be fathers. Even in homes with a father, the father figure is not necessarily the father. Grandfathers, older brothers, uncles even a teacher can fill that role.

No, it's not a given, but it is a rule. There are always exceptions to the rule, but they are just that, exceptions.

 

[catzmeow]

Yes, a child raised by two parents does better on every measurable level than a child raised by one parent. I think it's important to accept that fact. I also think it's important to realize that some people are single parents, not by choice, and they are doing the best they can. A child without a father in the home also does better if there is a father figure in their life, grandpa, neighbor, whatever. And yes, some single parents can overcome the handicap of being a single parent and do wonders with their kids, but it's not easy nor is it a given.

This is exactly true. I am a single mom, and I have great kids, but there is no question that it puts my kids more at risk to have a (mostly) absent father who is not very involved in their lives.

It is a myth that a single parent can do as well at the job as two parents could, and I'm saying that as someone who does the job daily. It is MUCH, MUCH easier when there are two parents.

 

[catzmeow]

Nor is it a given that two parents in an unhappy marriage can overcome that handicap and provide a good home and good examples.
Father figures need not be fathers. Even in homes with a father, the father figure is not necessarily the father. Grandfathers, older brothers, uncles even a teacher can fill that role.

In almost every measure, kids raised in a single parent home are more at risk for anti-social and negative behaviors. Pretending otherwise doesn't help.

Having said that: shit happens. You deal with the hand of cards you're dealt. But, it doesn't do anyone any favors, least of all single moms (of which I am one), to pretend that it isn't a deficit to not have a two-parent home.

If you really have questions about that, I'd encourage you to read "The Culture of Divorce," which looks at literally hundreds of studies on the impact of divorce on children. In almost EVERY study, kids do better with both parents, even when there is a high level of conflict in the home, than they do with just one parent.

It is what it is. I know that the prevailing viewpoint is that one parent is just as good as two. The problem is that this viewpoint is not validated by research, even though it makes us feel better.

 

[Againsheila]

Nor is it a given that two parents in an unhappy marriage can overcome that handicap and provide a good home and good examples.
Father figures need not be fathers. Even in homes with a father, the father figure is not necessarily the father. Grandfathers, older brothers, uncles even a teacher can fill that role.

In almost every measure, kids raised in a single parent home are more at risk for anti-social and negative behaviors. Pretending otherwise doesn't help.

Having said that: shit happens. You deal with the hand of cards you're dealt. But, it doesn't do anyone any favors, least of all single moms (of which I am one), to pretend that it isn't a deficit to not have a two-parent home.

If you really have questions about that, I'd encourage you to read "The Culture of Divorce," which looks at literally hundreds of studies on the impact of divorce on children. In almost EVERY study, kids do better with both parents, even when there is a high level of conflict in the home, than they do with just one parent.

It is what it is. I know that the prevailing viewpoint is that one parent is just as good as two. The problem is that this viewpoint is not validated by research, even though it makes us feel better.

I'd rep you for this one too, but it won't let me.

 

[Anguille]

The ratio of children to parents is a major factor. I think Echo Zulu is a great parent, her daughter is enjoying an excellent home life and I don't think that family is any exception to any "rule".

Family means more than some textbook formula.

 

[Agnapostate]

I think we should teach girls and boys (separately) that its best to wait and tell them the horrors of teenage pregnancy.

I don't know of much basis for making that claim. I've thoroughly mentioned this before, so it will be undoubtedly repetitive, but seeing as I was never rebutted the last time by our resident "expert" on studies and what not...

Many studies on teenage pregnancy and childbearing commit several critical methodological errors in that they fail to measure external environmental factors of different women who gave birth in their teenage years, one of the most critical of these being their family background. Researchers Geronimus and Korenman have conducted an analysis of the available data without committing this critical error, and thus find that the the "costs" of teenage childbearing are drastically overstated.


The Socioeconomic Costs of Teen Childbearing Reconsidered

Teen childbearing is commonly belied to cause long-term socioeconomic disadvantages for mothers and their children. However, earlier cross-sectional studies may have inadequately accounted for marked differences in family backgrounds among women who have first births at different ages. We present new estimates that take into account unmeasured family background heterogeneity by comparing sisters who timed their first births at different ages. In two of the three data sets we examine, sister comparisons suggest that biases from family background heterogeneity are important, and, therefore, that earlier studies may have overstated the consequences of teen childbearing.

To underscore this point even further, I would also point to an interesting study conducted for the federal white paper, Kids Having Kids, that did not fall into the trap of committing several methodological errors of the nature that other studies on teenage pregnancy do.

In Kids Having Kids, (my note: this is an oxymoron) researchers Hotz, Sanders, and McElroy used a new and innovative research approach that potentially controls for individual risk factors that cannot be directly measured and that can potentially lead to misleading (biased) estimates of the impact of a mother’s age at birth. This new approach used a “natural experiment”—that is, a group of women who became pregnant and had a birth as a teen are compared to a group of women who became pregnant as a teen but had a miscarriage—as a way to approximate the results of a random assignment to having a teen birth. While there are concerns about sample sizes and other related measurement issues in this particular application, the Hotz et al. approach has substantial value in measuring true causal impacts… and its results have become the research standard at this point and they are used here for that reason (pp 20, 22).

Moreover, while reviewing Hotz et al., it is curious to note that their study goes even further than that of Geronimus and Korenman in rebutting the claims that teenage pregnancy is a cause of numerous socioeconomic problems. In fact, Hotz et al. found the precise opposite to be true.

Our major finding is that many of the apparent negative consequences of teenage child bearing on the subsequent socioeconomic attainment of teen mothers are much smaller than those found in studies that use alternative methodologies to identify the causal effects of teenage childbearing. We also find evidence that teenage mothers earn more in the labor market at older ages than they would have earned if they had delayed their births.

This point is emphasized and re-emphasized repeatedly, highlighting just how great a contradiction of the "usual wisdom" it is, and how woefully inadequate that "usual wisdom" becomes when methodological errors used to find it are uncovered.

Our results suggest that much of the “concern” that has been registered regarding teenage childbearing is misplaced, at least based on its consequences for the subsequent educational and economic attainment of teen mothers. In particular, our estimates imply that the “poor” outcomes attained by such women cannot be attributed, in a causal sense, primarily to their decision to begin their childbearing at an early age. Rather, it appears that these outcomes are more the result of social and economic circumstances than they are the result of the early childbearing of these women. Furthermore, our estimates suggest that simply delaying their childbearing would not greatly enhance their educational attainment or subsequent earnings or affect their family structure…For most outcomes, the adverse consequences of early childbearing are short-lived. For annual hours of work and earnings, we find that a teen mother would have lower levels of each at older ages if they had delayed their childbearing.

They determine that teenage childbearing may in fact function as an economic strategy in some aspects.

Concentrating their childbearing at early ages may prove to be more compatible with their labor market career options than postponing their childbearing to older ages would be…The magnitudes of these estimated effects of teenage childbearing on subsequent labor market earnings are sizeable. Over the ages of 21 through 35, teen mothers earned an average $7,917 per year (in 1994 dollars). Based on the “All Covariates” estimates in Table 6, teen mothers would have earned an average of 31 percent less per year if they had delayed their childbearing.

It is also critical to note that because of the innovative research method that it uses, Hotz et al. does not fall prey to the numerous methodological issues mentioned by Geronimus and Korenman.

In this study, we have used an alternative and innovative strategy to estimate the causal effects associated with teenage childbearing in the U.S. In particular, we have focused on women who first become pregnant as teenagers and employ a natural experiment to obtain a more comparable,and plausible, comparison group with which to derive estimates of counterfactual outcomes for teen mothers. Our results suggest that much of the “concern” that has been registered regarding teenage childbearing is misplaced, at least based on its consequences for the subsequent educational and economic attainment of teen mothers. In particular, our estimates imply that the “poor” outcomes attained by such women cannot be attributed, in a causal sense, primarily to their decision to begin their childbearing at an early age. Rather, it appears that these outcomes are more the result of social and economic circumstances than they are the result of the early childbearing of these women. Furthermore, our estimates suggest that simply delaying their childbearing would not greatly enhance their educational attainment or subsequent earnings or affect their family structure.

Hence, I would question the veracity of the "studies" typically released in regards to the "effects" of teenage pregnancy.

 

[catzmeow]

I think Echo Zulu is a great parent, her daughter is enjoying an excellent home life and I don't think that family is any exception to any "rule".

You're a sloppy thinker, Anguille. This isn't personal.

I'm absolutely certain that Echo Zulu is a great mom. Frankly, I'm a great mom. But, having two parents in a home provides greater balance and stability than having one parent. It also makes it less likely that the family will struggle economically. Having two parents allows the parents to spell each other and provide relief. Two perspectives, rather than one, allows for greater effectiveness in problem-solving. And, research studies have found that girls with absent fathers often compensate for that missing relationship through precocious sexual experimentation. Boys with missing fathers may have identity issues about becoming a man.

None of that means that single parents can't effectively raise children. It DOES mean that it is more difficult. And, having a single parent IS a risk factor (Hawkins & Catellano, et. al.) for many high-risk behaviors.

Furthermore, children raised in single parent homes are at a SUBSTANTIALLY greater risk of sexual abuse by a boyfriend or male companion of their mother.

Again, on the personal level, I know many GREAT single parents. I consider myself a great mom.

BUT, I also know what the research says. Multiple studies over decades have found that kids in 1-parent homes are, on average, less successful than kids in 2-parent homes, for a variety of reasons.

It is what it is.

 

[Andrew2382]

No... it doesn't turn me on... I don't think... er... maybe.

I was going to do this between just us but since you bring it up and I don't give a ****...

I have made out with a few girls and a few times did um... a little more.

I like the way girls kiss and touch me. But I don't know it's just wrong. I don't know why but I feel so dirty for even doing it beside enjoying it. I was hoping we would talk about it and you could tell me why you think it's ok and I could make some sense of it and rationalize it so I didn't feel the way I do. More than just making out I like boys better. I like the power and strength of a man, I don't know hpow to describe it, it just mke sme breathless. But therewas something about the gentleness of girls that I can't get out of my mind. I don't think it's natural or right and it makes me feel a little sick at the same time but I wish boys could be... I dunno just more like girls with me at first.

I like the way boys smell. Girls semms I don't know artificial to me, cos maybe I know the work they put in but I know how boys are they just ARE so it's like all so real.

I dunno does any of this make sense? It doen't to me.

Lesbian stories are usually dismissed around here unless you provide some pics.

 

[Anguille]

I think Echo Zulu is a great parent, her daughter is enjoying an excellent home life and I don't think that family is any exception to any "rule".

You're a sloppy thinker, Anguille. This isn't personal.

I'm absolutely certain that Echo Zulu is a great mom. Frankly, I'm a great mom. But, having two parents in a home provides greater balance and stability than having one parent. It also makes it less likely that the family will struggle economically. Having two parents allows the parents to spell each other and provide relief. Two perspectives, rather than one, allows for greater effectiveness in problem-solving. And, research studies have found that girls with absent fathers often compensate for that missing relationship through precocious sexual experimentation. Boys with missing fathers may have identity issues about becoming a man.

None of that means that single parents can't effectively raise children. It DOES mean that it is more difficult. And, having a single parent IS a risk factor (Hawkins & Catellano, et. al.) for many high-risk behaviors.

Furthermore, children raised in single parent homes are at a SUBSTANTIALLY greater risk of sexual abuse by a boyfriend or male companion of their mother.

Again, on the personal level, I know many GREAT single parents. I consider myself a great mom.

BUT, I also know what the research says. Multiple studies over decades have found that kids in 1-parent homes are, on average, less successful than kids in 2-parent homes, for a variety of reasons.

It is what it is.

And you are what you are, catz.

 

[AllieBaba]

Good question.

Why IS it the man's responsibility, but the woman's choice?

That's what I wonder.

What I really love is the women who lie not only to the guy but in a court of law to the judge on whether the kid that occurred in the marriage was really his.

So because the guy didn't distrust his wife enough to get a DNA test in the first year, he's stuck paying child support for whatever kids occurred in said marriage for the next 18 years.

And the court system actually helps the women do such a thing. By threatening to throw the guy in jail, take away his license among other things,etc if he doesn't pay.

News flash. Be careful who you marry, wait until you're married to have sex, and face the fact that once you are married, hers become yours, regardless of whether or not they really are.

If you have a problem with that, then hell yeah, get a paternity test for every kid she has while she's with you. Sounds like a great relationship.

 

[sealybobo]

This is just another topic where the GOP's position is unrealistic/wrong. Gay rights, they are wrong. Free markets where corporations police themselves? Give even more tax breaks to the rich when giving them tax breaks didn't work in the first place? Suggesting that Iraq was going according to plan, or that it was for the good of America (and not just 1% of us)

Newt Gingrich admitted that the GOP's position on Global warming is because they don't want the regulations or taxes that will come with going green. So we know why they lied about that one.

The GOP advocate abstenence only because it is the position that religous right wingers have. Otherwise, even the GOP knows that it doesn't work. But Palin has to promote abstenence only becuse the rapid dogs (pitbulls with lipstick) that vote for her insist.

 

[Andrew2382]

waiting until you're married to screw each other has always been the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

Lets be serious

******* is a major part of Marriage....its why one gets married to begin with...

Marriages meaning is to be someone you love so you enjoy each other's company and can now bang freely without the bullshit of dating and meeting new people.

What happens if you get married, then bang on the honeymoon and despise it. The guy gets the girl who only wants missionary, the girl gets the guy who wants to launch one onto her grill. It could get ugly.

Bang while you are dating and engaged, and the rest will fall into place

Sincerely,

The love doctor