Abortions: Should Women be Allowed to Choose?

[JoeB131]

The primary problem that nutters have with this issue is that they consider a fetus to be a human being.

Get that fixed.....and you can turn your attention to preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place as your best method to reduce the number of abortions.

Maybe you could enlighten us on when an unborn child becomes human. 1 years? 6 months? 1 min? What's the difference between a 1 min old baby and one due in 1 min?

Maybe it is your goulish attitude that needs fixed.

Irrelevent to any sensible conversation.

Women are not having abortions 1 minute before the baby is due.

Only 1% of abortions are performed in the third trimester. Usually for valid medical reasons- threat to her life or the fetus is going to be horribly deformed.

 

[Wicked Jester]

That is only one opinion. As I said earlier, you do not think that others are entitled to their opinion b

Nooooo, everbody is entitled to their opinion, just as i'm entitled to tell them their opinion is full o' shit.

If you don't like it, go cry me raging river, lib.

But you must resort to childish name calling if someone has a different opinion.

This isn't Ireland.....This is a free country, and we have a beautiful thing called the 1st amendment, and I damn sure use it, regularly, lib.

Like I said, if you don't like it, go cry me a raging river, lib.....I really don't give a rats ass what some ex-pat libprog thinks.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The problem for anti-abortionists is that their argument for when life begins demands that any abortion be considered murder, a capital crime.

That means that an illegal abortion should be treated as a capital crime, in their view.

Unfortunately for them, that is an extremist position held by maybe 2 or 3% of the population.

So the 'life begins at conception' argument is either an extremist one, if applied logically,

or an illogical one, if not applied logically.

 

[paperview]

The list of countries where abortion is illegal:

Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Venezuela,
Angola, Benin, Central African Rep.Chad, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Gabon, Guinea- Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Mali, Mauretania, Mauritius, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda.
Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Oman, Sudan (r), Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.
Bangladesh, Indonesia, Laos, Myanmar, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Sri Lanka.\\\

Notice a common string there?

Not going there, GOP extremists. Not.

 

[NoNukes]

Yeah, as if wantonely killing life in the wonb as a matter of convenience is "civilized," eh?

Christ, the hypocrisy from you ghouls is laughable.

It is legal according to the highest court in the land.

True that.....And that is why it needs to be fought tooth and nail to have it changed.

Murder is murder, after all.

According to the highest court in the land, you are wrong.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What new born can live on its own? If that is your criteria then they don't become human until what? Three?

I'm really in over my head with you, huh? You are too sharp for me.

When do YOU think a fetus becomes a human being?

Glad you admit what everyone else knows.

Well if you quit spouting liberal BS maybe I wouldn't keep asking you questions you don't answer. When is unborn child worthy of protection? That is for the law to decide. But that time certainly is not after the unborn child is born, I don't believe there is one law that makes such a distinction. Only liberals that wish to sooth their conscience make such statements.

If we are going to send a drunken conservative who wrecks his car and kills an unborn child (fetus to you) to jail then lets be consistent in definitions.

Then you tell us, under the law as you would like to have it, how old need the fetus be before the woman who has the abortion should be prosecuted for murder?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Freewill,

Are you going to answer my question?

By the way.....funny nickname for a dude with your POV on this issue.

 

[Wicked Jester]

a fetus is called a fetus for a reason.

Its called that until it can survive on its own outside the uterous.


Yes it is a human fetus but it also is not viable on its own.

Oh and BTW this country has already decided that a woman has a right to deside what happens inside her own body.

Your never going to chang that here.

I suggest you move to Sadui arabia they agree with you

You don't even know what the true definition of a fetus is.

Once again, never informed and always wrong.....it's the TM way.

 

[JoeB131]

[True that, contraception doesn't always work, and it's a sad fact that many women use abortion as their main method of birth control.....And it's quite obvious that many women are ignorant of how their own bodies work.....And then are those that understand full well how their bodies work, yet they won't step up and take responsibility for their actions when their bodies produce human life. Nope, it's much easier to kill the inconvient lil' bastards, then it is to step up and do the right thing, and take resposibilty for their actions.

I consider terminating a pregnancy that you aren't ready for to be stepping up and doing the right thing.

But here's a reality. It isn't that people don't know how their bodies work. It's that people are fallible.

For instance, I don't always remember to take my blood pressure medicine every day. I should. I don't.

The problem is, in your philosophy, a fetus is a human life. In some people, it isn't. So the sensible solution is, you don't force people to carry babies they don't want, and they won't force you to have abortions you don't want. I think this is referred to as "Freedom", something you conservatives claim you are for when it's the ability of rich people to screw over the people who work for them.

Here's the thing, I'm a pragmatist. I would be all for there being less abortions, but you don't get there by outlawing them. Every country that has tried has failed miserably.

You do it by educating people, by providing support, etc.

But that would be the discussion we would be having if we were having a sensible conversation about how to have less abortion.

This is a conversation about how you use religion as an excuse for your misogyny.

 

[NoNukes]

Nooooo, everbody is entitled to their opinion, just as i'm entitled to tell them their opinion is full o' shit.

If you don't like it, go cry me raging river, lib.

But you must resort to childish name calling if someone has a different opinion.

This isn't Ireland.....This is a free country, and we have a beautiful thing called the 1st amendment, and I damn sure use it, regularly, lib.

Like I said, if you don't like it, go cry me a raging river, lib.....I really don't give a rats ass what some ex-pat libprog thinks.

Ireland is freer than the US. And of course you do not listen to anyone who has a different opinion than you, hence your ignorance.

 

[freedombecki]

Great. So you want to punish the woman for getting pregnant by forcing her to have a baby she doesn't want.
Not to mention your rotten views on rape.

GTFO of a woman's body. Abortion is HER decision, not yours.

And no sweetie, I don't want to punish women. I don't want to punish anyone.

Pregnancy is their decision; not mine.

You however seem to want to punish an innocent fetus for something they have nothing to do with.

A fetus is not innocent. It is nothing.

You want to punish women for having sex. You hate women and wish to control them. You are a sick freak.

A fetus is not innocent. It is nothing.

Nothing produces nothing. It is a fact that every person here who is a human now was a fetus at the beginning of their life. Are we nothing?

Dictators tell their police and soldiers in the field are told to regard their personal enemies "nothing" or even detrimental insects. When they get out, there are plenty of people spitting on them about killing human beings, and it is a crushing thing for some of them to realize. The soldier is then trapped between military people who used them to achieve a victory for someone who doesn't ultimately care for what happens to them and a society of fools, who once served, have no idea that their right to say evil things about soldiers comes from the free speech soldiers earned their right to speak freely, and nothing else.

You can lie and tell a woman that the life inside her is "nothing." Ultimately, after you have used her to make yourself feel better about having taken a side with irresponsible people to prosper, you toss her aside if her conscience drives her mad and she opposes abortion thereafter.

She will hate you with the fire of eternity once she realizes you fooled her into killing her own baby, particularly if she has several abortions and is sterile when she comes to want her own baby with a man she finds who wants children and cares for her. Sometimes when he realizes what she has done, he also realizes that having children requires respect, and that she had none for several others, which is a dangerous precedent for the future life of a family. He will break both their hearts to get out of such a relationship that goes nowhere.

You saying a fetus is "nothing" is not what the American lawsuit was all about. However, its shining failure is that no justices and no politicians fought back as its black outcome was put on the back burner to raise a new world in which women became the downfall of humanity, which it was given the propaganda that people forming are nothing, unwanted children deserve death, no future there.

I don't know what to say to someone who regards OTHER PEOPLE less well-developed than themselves as "nothing."

Since I cannot do that, I will have to put you on permanent ignore until I can agree with you that my fellow human beings are nothing. I can't do that on this side of the grave. I don't buy into the "other people are nothing" propaganda that you are spouting. It prospers the worst kind of iniquity I know of--war on human beings regarded as nothing by people who are so vain you can't pry their heads out of their own colons and that of people who view humanity's future as "nothing".

That's the most sinister thing about such a selfish notion that a woman is not responsible for small lives she has created from pleasure if she doesn't feeeeeeeeel like it.

Roe v. Wade is a curse on mankind, and I am truly starting to hate the Supreme Court for creating a monster. How dare they prosper such a creepy case against little Americans who can't punch people in the nose for taking their entire future away from them. They only have the right to be acknowledged as a life when the court wants to get even with a lying, cheating Scott Peterson for murdering his wife Lacey and unborn child so he can marry somebody else without having to go through a divorce and 18 years of child support for a legitimate child.

The Supreme Court is the tool, not people who oppose bullies bent on killing their little secret inside with extinguishment the court gave respectability to 40 years ago.

 

[paperview]

To me, it is a matter of rights, and whose rights trump who.

I think the woman's right of her own body trumps what is growing inside her.

Though I would never counsel a woman to have an abortion, I cannot insist that she *must* carry to term. I just can't do that. It is her life, her circumstances, and I am not her. I do think at the point of viability, the question changes, and we are talking a different matter here.
That's my cut off point.

For those before, in the first trimester, when over 90% of abortions are performed, it comes down to whether I think the State should have control of her Uterus.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The problem with the 'abortion is murder' crowd is that except for a very small number of extremists,

none of them even believe what they claim they believe.

They will spout off about life beginning at conception, and abortion being murder, all day...

...but not one of them would be willing to sign the death warrant for a woman who had an abortion.

It's all irrational raving on their part.

 

[Esmeralda]

[True that, contraception doesn't always work, and it's a sad fact that many women use abortion as their main method of birth control.....And it's quite obvious that many women are ignorant of how their own bodies work.....And then are those that understand full well how their bodies work, yet they won't step up and take responsibility for their actions when their bodies produce human life. Nope, it's much easier to kill the inconvient lil' bastards, then it is to step up and do the right thing, and take resposibilty for their actions.

I consider terminating a pregnancy that you aren't ready for to be stepping up and doing the right thing.

But here's a reality. It isn't that people don't know how their bodies work. It's that people are fallible.

For instance, I don't always remember to take my blood pressure medicine every day. I should. I don't.

The problem is, in your philosophy, a fetus is a human life. In some people, it isn't. So the sensible solution is, you don't force people to carry babies they don't want, and they won't force you to have abortions you don't want. I think this is referred to as "Freedom", something you conservatives claim you are for when it's the ability of rich people to screw over the people who work for them.

Here's the thing, I'm a pragmatist. I would be all for there being less abortions, but you don't get there by outlawing them. Every country that has tried has failed miserably.

You do it by educating people, by providing support, etc.

But that would be the discussion we would be having if we were having a sensible conversation about how to have less abortion.

This is a conversation about how you use religion as an excuse for your misogyny.

The irony is that if you try to create a society that 'educates' people about reproduction, these people who want to outlaw abortions get very angry that the 'State' is telling them what to do: i.e, sex education for youth, contraception advertized on television, etc. They get very upset if the 'State' tries to 'tell them what to do' or how to educate their children about reproduction because they think the 'State' should stay out of their personal business. But they have no qualms telling women they can't have an abortion, one of the most personal and sensitive decisions any woman has to make.

It's basically not about fair play at all; it's about they want to impose their religious beliefs on others. They should go live in a theocracy.

 

[Katzndogz]

[True that, contraception doesn't always work, and it's a sad fact that many women use abortion as their main method of birth control.....And it's quite obvious that many women are ignorant of how their own bodies work.....And then are those that understand full well how their bodies work, yet they won't step up and take responsibility for their actions when their bodies produce human life. Nope, it's much easier to kill the inconvient lil' bastards, then it is to step up and do the right thing, and take resposibilty for their actions.

I consider terminating a pregnancy that you aren't ready for to be stepping up and doing the right thing.

But here's a reality. It isn't that people don't know how their bodies work. It's that people are fallible.

For instance, I don't always remember to take my blood pressure medicine every day. I should. I don't.

The problem is, in your philosophy, a fetus is a human life. In some people, it isn't. So the sensible solution is, you don't force people to carry babies they don't want, and they won't force you to have abortions you don't want. I think this is referred to as "Freedom", something you conservatives claim you are for when it's the ability of rich people to screw over the people who work for them.

Here's the thing, I'm a pragmatist. I would be all for there being less abortions, but you don't get there by outlawing them. Every country that has tried has failed miserably.

You do it by educating people, by providing support, etc.

But that would be the discussion we would be having if we were having a sensible conversation about how to have less abortion.

This is a conversation about how you use religion as an excuse for your misogyny.

We murder people by mistake every day. Accidents happen. We try to minimize that accidents. A woman having her third or more abortion hasn't made a mistake. She doesn't care. A man that leaves the rifle where his three year old could get it makes a mistake. A man that leaves the rilfle where four minor children could get it hasn't made a mistake. It's intentional.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Should women be allowed to choose what they do with their bodies? Absolutely.

And they have plenty of options to choose from. Birth control pills, condoms, abstinence and natural sex.

Those are all choices.

Pregnancy isn't a choice; it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice.

And abortions aren't about a woman's body; they're about another body, very much alive, forming within the woman's body. So a woman's "right-to-choose" should be about what the woman does with her body; not the body of an infant she chose to have.

And if we can all agree that every human being is born with the inherent right to live, then abortions are clear violations of this right. As the baby is never consulted with when abortions are decided.

So which is it, are you advocating placing women and their doctors in prison, or are you making a philosophical argument only.

As we know, the right to privacy prohibits the state from interfering with what a woman elects to do, as the Constitution makes paramount the woman’s liberty.

Assuming you accept the right to privacy with regard to abortion, what are your proposals to end the practice that don't involve a privacy rights violation?

Whoa, hold on there. Who said anything about prison?I'm just against abortions. If a woman gets pregnant then she has the baby. It's as simple that.

If she doesn't want the baby she can give him or her up for adoption. She should have thought of that before she chose to have sex.

So you're pro-choice. You're talking in circles.

 

[Caroljo]

So which is it, are you advocating placing women and their doctors in prison, or are you making a philosophical argument only.

As we know, the right to privacy prohibits the state from interfering with what a woman elects to do, as the Constitution makes paramount the woman’s liberty.

Assuming you accept the right to privacy with regard to abortion, what are your proposals to end the practice that don't involve a privacy rights violation?

Whoa, hold on there. Who said anything about prison?

I'm just against abortions. If a woman gets pregnant then she has the baby. It's as simple that.

If she doesn't want the baby she can give him or her up for adoption. She should have thought of that before she chose to have sex.

Actually I think what you are against is manslaughter or murder. But right now abortion is neither so the argument is an argument of morality, unless laws change. It is a sad state of affairs that we have convinced the minorities that abortion is the answer, but that has been the goal of Planned Parenthood from the beginning.

The good thing is that the number of abortions are decreasing. Maybe because of better access by minorities to birth control. Maybe through education. Maybe because women are finding out the truth. At any rate here are the reasons for abortion from 2004.

A 2004 study by the Guttmacher Institute reported that women listed the following amongst their reasons for choosing to have an abortion:[44]
74% Having a baby would dramatically change my life
73% Cannot afford a baby now
48% Do not want to be a single mother or having relationship problems
38% Have completed my childbearing
32% Not ready for a(nother) child
25% Do not want people to know I had sex or got pregnant
22% Do not feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child
14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
12% Concerns about my health
6% Parents want me to have an abortion
1% Was a victim of rape
less than 0.5% Became pregnant as a result of incest

Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why is it then, if someone murders a pregnant woman and her "fetus" that person is charged with murder of both the woman and the child? Why the child if that child is nothing but a lump of nothing? But yet a woman can end the life of that child with no consequences?

 

[Katzndogz]

Whoa, hold on there. Who said anything about prison?

I'm just against abortions. If a woman gets pregnant then she has the baby. It's as simple that.

If she doesn't want the baby she can give him or her up for adoption. She should have thought of that before she chose to have sex.

Actually I think what you are against is manslaughter or murder. But right now abortion is neither so the argument is an argument of morality, unless laws change. It is a sad state of affairs that we have convinced the minorities that abortion is the answer, but that has been the goal of Planned Parenthood from the beginning.

The good thing is that the number of abortions are decreasing. Maybe because of better access by minorities to birth control. Maybe through education. Maybe because women are finding out the truth. At any rate here are the reasons for abortion from 2004.

A 2004 study by the Guttmacher Institute reported that women listed the following amongst their reasons for choosing to have an abortion:[44]
74% Having a baby would dramatically change my life
73% Cannot afford a baby now
48% Do not want to be a single mother or having relationship problems
38% Have completed my childbearing
32% Not ready for a(nother) child
25% Do not want people to know I had sex or got pregnant
22% Do not feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child
14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
12% Concerns about my health
6% Parents want me to have an abortion
1% Was a victim of rape
less than 0.5% Became pregnant as a result of incest

Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why is it then, if someone murders a pregnant woman and her "fetus" that person is charged with murder of both the woman and the child? Why the child if that child is nothing but a lump of nothing? But yet a woman can end the life of that child with no consequences?

If a street thug shoots a pregnant woman in the belly and kills both the mother and the child it's murder times two. In the case of Kermit Gosnell, he botches an abortion and kills the mother and the child it's just murder of the mother.

Because we have a morally confused culture that wants to separate bad murders from good murders.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'll just restate what I said to you in the other thread (that you conveniently disappeared from). It's intellectual dishonesty to argue that abortion is about a "woman's body", since an abortion directly targets the body of another.

Not the point. That fetus is inside the woman's body, and she has the authority to dispose of it if she wishes.

If she does then why isn't abortion legal up until birth?

Because the Supreme Court compromised in Roe v. Wade.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Great. So you want to punish the woman for getting pregnant by forcing her to have a baby she doesn't want.
Not to mention your rotten views on rape.

GTFO of a woman's body. Abortion is HER decision, not yours.

And no sweetie, I don't want to punish women. I don't want to punish anyone.
Pregnancy is their decision; not mine.

You however seem to want to punish an innocent fetus for something they have nothing to do with.

If you don't want to punish women for having abortions, then you are pro-choice, then you have chosen the woman's right to privacy over the fetus's right to life.

You essentially agree with Noomi, despite your vicious attacks on her.