Zone1 Abortion Debate: Come Clean and without fallacy

[Bitterhook]

Like I said, guy, you are too simplistic and you make dumb analogies.... not really worth my time to even mock you.

The sad thing is, you think you are making good points.

There is no doubt that you are willing to repeat the same thing over and over, which is what I meant by your less than remarkable ability to remain consistent, because it's not that hard to understand why.

 

[ding]

Not really. They don't show abortions on TV.

The line comes from a Roger Waters song, about a woman who is killed in Tiananmen Square. But I thought it applied equally well to Renee Good.

I know where it comes from. The phrase "One in Fifty Million" emphasizes the overwhelming scale of life and the often ignored, nature of individual lives and deaths. Which is exactly what your argument is doing.

And yes, it does apply to Renee Good and everyone else that this world marginalizes such as unborn human lives like you are doing by arguing they aren't persons because they aren't viable. ICE didn't see Renee Good as a person which is why it was so easy to end her life for them. You may not be guilty of pulling the trigger but you are guilty of marginalizing them.

 

[JoeB131]

There is no doubt that you are willing to repeat the same thing over and over, which is what I meant by your less than remarkable ability to remain consistent, because it's not that hard to understand why.

Stringing words together does not make you smart.

I know where it comes from. The phrase "One in Fifty Million" emphasizes the overwhelming scale of life and the often ignored, nature of individual lives and deaths. Which is exactly what your argument is doing.

Actually, you missed the point of the song entirely. The point was that her death made people pay attention to an injustice, just like Good's has.

And yes, it does apply to Renee Good and everyone else that this world marginalizes such as unborn human lives like you are doing by arguing they aren't persons because they aren't viable. ICE didn't see Renee Good as a person which is why it was so easy to end her life for them. You may not be guilty of pulling the trigger but you are guilty of marginalizing them.

A kidney-bean-sized glob of tissue is not the same as a live person, but you want to marginalize the lives of the women they are inside.

The problem with you people who want to outlaw abortion is that you want to take away freedoms from women. Which I'm sure for some people, like the OP, is the point. He apparently thinks the 19th Amendment was a terrible idea.

You are still jumping through unnecessary hoops. You are trying to make something moral when it's not. Just say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

Why would I say that? A fetus isn't pain-capable until the 20th week of pregnancy. 99% of abortions are performed well before that.

I don't think a fetus is a baby, and, really, neither does anyone else. We don't have funerals for miscarriages. It's sad when it happens, but most people say, "We'll just try again."

Now, I've said, I would be all for policies that reduce the number of abortions - Universal Health Care, Paid Family Leave, Contraception, Sex Education

It's not going to stop the woman who sees abortion as just an alternative birth control, but it might help the woman who wants a baby, but just can't afford it right now.

 

[ding]

Stringing words together does not make you smart.

I never claimed to be smart.

Actually, you missed the point of the song entirely. The point was that her death made people pay attention to an injustice, just like Good's has.

I don't believe I did. I believe you did. You have marginalized life.

A kidney-bean-sized glob of tissue is not the same as a live person, but you want to marginalize the lives of the women they are inside.

The problem with you people who want to outlaw abortion is that you want to take away freedoms from women. Which I'm sure for some people, like the OP, is the point. He apparently thinks the 19th Amendment was a terrible idea.

This is a perfect example of you marginalizing life.

Why would I say that? A fetus isn't pain-capable until the 20th week of pregnancy. 99% of abortions are performed well before that.

I don't think a fetus is a baby, and, really, neither does anyone else. We don't have funerals for miscarriages. It's sad when it happens, but most people say, "We'll just try again."

Now, I've said, I would be all for policies that reduce the number of abortions - Universal Health Care, Paid Family Leave, Contraception, Sex Education

It's not going to stop the woman who sees abortion as just an alternative birth control, but it might help the woman who wants a baby, but just can't afford it right now.

This is you still marginalizing life.

You are trying to make something moral when it's not. Just say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

 

[Bitterhook]

Stringing words together does not make you smart.

Failing to connect your words to anything other than conjecture would be a better example of something entirely different, but that you continue to embrace with stalwart dedication while achieving nothing in the process.

See how that works?
At least I know what I am doing when I do it and likewise don't expect anything other than the same results.

 

[Chuz Life]

Diversion attempt noted.

Try again.

 

[Bitterhook]

I don't think a fetus is a baby, and, really, neither does anyone else. We don't have funerals for miscarriages. It's sad when it happens, but most people say, "We'll just try again."

And to think, that still doesn't make sense even if I had not already decided you are not a viable organism, because you cannot do the backstroke in outer space without assistance, because some folks obviously disagree with you.

By the way, why do you think they offer grief counseling after abortions and miscarriages?
Here's a hint, because some humans are viable organisms worth caring about.

 

[JoeB131]

Failing to connect your words to anything other than conjecture

sorry, you've already been dismissed.

Diversion attempt noted.

Try again.

No diversion at all. As long as Globby needs a woman to act as a life-support system, her willingness to be a life support system determines it's viability. Otherwise

And to think, that still doesn't make sense even if I had not already decided you are not a viable organism, because you cannot do the backstroke in outer space without assistance, because some folks obviously disagree with you.

That is such a dumb analogy, I can't believe anyone was stupid enough to say it.

I don't believe I did. I believe you did. You have marginalized life.

nope. If it's not viable, it's not a life.

This is a perfect example of you marginalizing life.

Again, when you wingnuts support social welfare programs for the babies that are already here, and are willing to support the taxes to pay for it, I'll take you seriously on "life".

This is never about life; it's about subjugating women.

 

[ding]

nope. If it's not viable, it's not a life.

That's you literally marginalizing life. You might as well be an ICE agent.

Again, when you wingnuts support social welfare programs for the babies that are already here, and are willing to support the taxes to pay for it, I'll take you seriously on "life".

This is never about life; it's about subjugating women.

This is you rationalizing your beliefs because you really do believe in good and evil, Joey. Which is why you can't say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

 

[JoeB131]

That's you literally marginalizing life. You might as well be an ICE agent.

Nope, I just think a real live woman is more important than a glob of tissue.

This is you rationalizing your beliefs because you really do believe in good and evil, Joey. Which is why you can't say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

Let's get realistic here, even when abortion was illegal, they never treated it as "Murder".

If you guys were this serious about "Life", then you would advocate a law that would throw women in prison for having abortions. Not the providers but the women. By your bizarre logic, the doctor is the hit man, the woman is the perpetrator.

Of course, you won't do that because you know that people just wouldn't stand for it.

But I think this should be the top plank of the GOP platform. A national ban on abortion with criminal penalties for women who have them.

 

[ding]

Nope, I just think a real live woman is more important than a glob of tissue.

She's Everybody's Sister
She's symbolic of our Failure
She's the One in Fifty Million
Who can help us to be Free
Because she died because of Joey's apathy
(And I grieve for my sister.)

Let's get realistic here, even when abortion was illegal, they never treated it as "Murder". If you guys were this serious about "Life", then you would advocate a law that would throw women in prison for having abortions. Not the providers but the women. By your bizarre logic, the doctor is the hit man, the woman is the perpetrator. Of course, you won't do that because you know that people just wouldn't stand for it. But I think this should be the top plank of the GOP platform. A national ban on abortion with criminal penalties for women who have them.

This is you rationalizing your beliefs because you really do believe in good and evil, Joey. Which is why you can't say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

 

[JoeB131]

She's Everybody's Sister
She's symbolic of our Failure
She's the One in Fifty Million
Who can help us to be Free
Because she died because of Joey's apathy
(And I grieve for my sister.)

This is you rationalizing your beliefs because you really do believe in good and evil, Joey. Which is why you can't say, "to hell with that baby. **** that baby. I'm glad they killed it. I hope it suffered" and be done with it.

You're just repeating yourself and avoiding the point.

If you really think a fetus is the same as a fully grown person, then you should advocate for prosecuting women for murder when they have abortions.

Incidentally, they DID try to get that camel's nose under the tent in a couple of cases involving women of color who had inadvertent abortions. See the cases of Purvi Patel and Shaue Bei-Bei. (They'd never try to pull this shit with a white woman.)

When people heard about it, they were rightfully horrified.

 

[Bitterhook]

sorry, you've already been dismissed.

If I have already been dismissed, then you can quit quoting me, because I don't care about your dismissal and you just keep lying about that. Give me a minute and I will address the rest of the absolute garbage in your posts.

 

[JoeB131]

If I have already been dismissed,

YOu have been, because you add nothing to a conversation.

Give a minute and I will address the rest of the absolute garbage in your post.

That would be a first.

So, yes or no, should women be prosecuted for murder for having abortions?

If it isn't "yes", then you don't think fetuses are people any more than I do.

 

[Bitterhook]

YOu have been, because you add nothing to a conversation.

That would be a first.

So, yes or no, should women be prosecuted for murder for having abortions?

If it isn't "yes", then you don't think fetuses are people any more than I do.

You're lying again, and you just cannot help yourself.
It took you less than a minute to start lying again.

 

[JoeB131]

You're lying again, and you just cannot help yourself.

It was a simple question, you couldn't answer it.

I see Ding ran off when confronted by it, so there's that.

 

[Bitterhook]

It was a simple question, you couldn't answer it.

I see Ding ran off when confronted by it, so there's that.

There you go again lying, and you don't have to.
Well, actually you might, but that would be an entirely different issue you have.

 

[JoeB131]

There you go again lying, and you don't have to.

As you wingnuts like to say, "I'm just asking questions".

What should the penalty be for a woman who has an abortion?

 

[Bitterhook]

As you wingnuts like to say, "I'm just asking questions".

What should the penalty be for a woman who has an abortion?

Still lying, and you never even meant what you posted in the first place, which would not mean I am a wingnut.

 

[JoeB131]

Still lying, and you never even meant what you posted in the first place, which would not mean I am a wingnut.

You really kind of suck at this, to be honest.

Simple question.

What should the punishment be for a woman who gets an abortion?