Zone1 Abortion Debate: Come Clean and without fallacy

[JoeB131]

So then it doesn't matter if it happens or not. You think a baby in breach position should be allowed to be killed if the mother and doctor agree to it. You're fine to the opinion, but I think most people would say you're really F'd up, and biology would as well, because that baby is quite "viable".

well, I don't go through life caring what other people think. I'm not a 14 year old girl on Tik-Tok.

YOu spin an imiginary scenario to give yourself a moral line, when it never happens. If a fetus is terminated in the 8th month, it's because something has gone horrifically wrong with the pregnancy. Period. And you Moral Scolds need to mind your own business.

You're talking about what is, I'm talking about what ought to be. We've gone through some tragic periods in history (lobotomies, eugenics, etc.)... would you advocate for those institutions and procedures then because they were done?

Eugenics has gotten a bad name because of Austrian Mustasche Man. The problem was the people who advocated it based their positions on racism and not science.

Aborting a severely damaged fetus is something that is a societal good. Why should a young couple be bankrupted by having to care for a child with Spina-Bifida when that can be avoided?

Oh, wait, it's "God's Will" or some such shit like that.

Sex produces life. Biology 101.

Abortion terminates pregnancy. OB/GYN 203.

You shifted the goal posts. You justified your claim on abortion because "nearly everyone" believes it (supposedly). Now you changed it to "It's none of your business". Man you're bad at this.

I never said "everyone believes it". There are a lot of Moral Scolds and misogynists who firmly believe they have a right to tell a woman to bankrupt herself with a fetus she doesn't want. But you are in the minority.

Nobody said anything like that. And no fake performative outrage saves you. If 9 out of 10 people in a room think it's okay to murder or whatever horrible crime... by your original logic (the one you tried to change), it would mean that "nearly everyone" thinks the crime is okay, so thus, justifiable.. because that's what you're using to justify abortion and denounce murder. You're just determining morality by mob rule, which can get highly immoral.

Wait, guy, I just can't get past your go-to that you think Africans are all cannibals!!! That was your go-to.

Again, your "if you can't stop it, then why make a law to prevent it" means there's no reason to have any laws.

Because- wait for it - the effective of a law relies on it's public support.

We only have 25,000 murders in this country. Way too high, compared to other industrialized nations, because we love our guns more than we love our children. But murders are rare because most people know murder is wrong and agree that it is. When it happens, the person is punished (if he is caught.)

MEANWHILE, we have 600,000 abortions a year, and except for the Moral Scolds, no one really cares, because it's the woman's business.

Any abortion? I think you ought to recheck your sources.

Don't need to. The folks in Kansas voted to fully restore the pre-Dobbs status quo. The Moral Scolds have fought putting the issue on the ballot ever since, because it loses every time. The only place it did "Okay" was Florida because Florida requires a 60% threshold.

Facts can't be racist. Muslims have high incest rates.

Yes, we know you are a racist, you don't need to keep embarassing yourself.

1. You think the Italian government is run by the Pope? LMAO. Wow.

The Italian Government prosecuted a woman for making fun of Pope Benedict XVI in her comedy act.


Referring to the attitude to gay people of the Catholic church and Pope Benedict - the former cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - Guzzanti said: "In 20 years Ratzinger will be dead and will end up in hell, tormented by queer demons - not passive ones, but very active ones."

The 1929 Lateran treaty that created the Vatican city state describes the Pope as a "sacred and inviolable person". It makes insulting him an offence in Italy on a par with contempt for Italy's president, punishable by between one and five years in jail

2. You ignored what the study said.

Because it's stupid.

Like I predicted, you ran. You always prove me right.

Nope, I just reject misogynistic propaganda.


Meanwhile, real people doing real science.

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womensmentalhealth.org

Abortion Does Not Increase Suicide Risk | University of Maryland | School of Public Health

Policies based on the notion that undergoing an abortion causes or increases women’s risk of attempting suicide are misinformed, according to the results of a 17-year study led by a School of Public Health researcher.

sph.umd.edu

 

[Mr. Friscus]

well, I don't go through life caring what other people think. I'm not a 14 year old girl on Tik-Tok.

YOu spin an imiginary scenario to give yourself a moral line, when it never happens. If a fetus is terminated in the 8th month, it's because something has gone horrifically wrong with the pregnancy. Period. And you Moral Scolds need to mind your own business.

You can't answer the question.

Aborting a severely damaged fetus is something that is a societal good. Why should a young couple be bankrupted by having to care for a child with Spina-Bifida when that can be avoided?

You're free to that stance, I can just take pride in knowing I care more about human life than you do.

Oh, wait, it's "God's Will" or some such shit like that.

I've never seen someone so triggered by God before.

Abortion terminates pregnancy. OB/GYN 203.

It sure does.

I never said "everyone believes it". There are a lot of Moral Scolds and misogynists who firmly believe they have a right to tell a woman to bankrupt herself with a fetus she doesn't want. But you are in the minority.

I never said you said "everyone believes it", I said you said "nearly every believes it", which you did. I think your emotions prevent you from being accurate.

Wait, guy, I just can't get past your go-to that you think Africans are all cannibals!!! That was your go-to.

It's factually true:



Let me guess, more "racist" statistics? Was that national geographic video AI? Like the fact that muslim nations have extremely high inbreeding levels?

Because- wait for it - the effective of a law relies on it's public support.

We only have 25,000 murders in this country. Way too high, compared to other industrialized nations, because we love our guns more than we love our children. But murders are rare because most people know murder is wrong and agree that it is. When it happens, the person is punished (if he is caught.)

Your arguing that morality is dictated by the majority will of the people. That means that if suddenly a movement came about that said murder was okay if it was against group X, you'd by definition support it. That's why my ethical system is superior to yours. Christian ethics deem no murder to be moral. Your ethics accept it as long as enough people are okay with it.

MEANWHILE, we have 600,000 abortions a year, and except for the Moral Scolds, no one really cares, because it's the woman's business.

Plenty of people care.

Don't need to. The folks in Kansas voted to fully restore the pre-Dobbs status quo. The Moral Scolds have fought putting the issue on the ballot ever since, because it loses every time. The only place it did "Okay" was Florida because Florida requires a 60% threshold.

You said people in Kansas voted for all abortion. You again shift your goal posts. You can't help but be completely hyperbolic and then have to eat the foot that's in your mouth over, and over, and over.

Yes, we know you are a racist, you don't need to keep embarassing yourself.

Don't worry, those reading know that you're the one desperate to have to resort to baseless labels that you've ensured have no meaning in society anymore. You just cannot answer questions, so you tantrum and lash out like a toddler. If you want to continue to discuss the topic, grow up and act like an adult.

The Italian Government prosecuted a woman for making fun of Pope Benedict XVI in her comedy act.


Referring to the attitude to gay people of the Catholic church and Pope Benedict - the former cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - Guzzanti said: "In 20 years Ratzinger will be dead and will end up in hell, tormented by queer demons - not passive ones, but very active ones."

The 1929 Lateran treaty that created the Vatican city state describes the Pope as a "sacred and inviolable person". It makes insulting him an offence in Italy on a par with contempt for Italy's president, punishable by between one and five years in jail

All of that anecdotal posturing and yet the Pope does not have anything to do with the secular Italian government that is a republic.

Meanwhile, real people doing real science.

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womensmentalhealth.org

Abortion Does Not Increase Suicide Risk | University of Maryland | School of Public Health

Policies based on the notion that undergoing an abortion causes or increases women’s risk of attempting suicide are misinformed, according to the results of a 17-year study led by a School of Public Health researcher.

sph.umd.edu

Women who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide. It's a fact, and it makes completely sense.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't answer the question.

Sure I did. You just didn't like the very sensible answer.

You're free to that stance, I can just take pride in knowing I care more about human life than you do.

Yes, you care about human life until birth. After birth, you're on your own, suckers!!!

I've never seen someone so triggered by God before.

You guys blow up abortion clinics to please an imaginary sky fairy...that's what I call "Triggered".

I never said you said "everyone believes it", I said you said "nearly every believes it", which you did. I think your emotions prevent you from being accurate.

I think you are engaging in sophistry because your main point is silly.

Your arguing that morality is dictated by the majority will of the people. That means that if suddenly a movement came about that said murder was okay if it was against group X, you'd by definition support it. That's why my ethical system is superior to yours. Christian ethics deem no murder to be moral. Your ethics accept it as long as enough people are okay with it.

Really? HOw about all the people killed in the Crusades? Or the Spanish Inquistion? Or all the witches burned at the stake?

The problem is, the law has never recognized Globby the Fetus as a person. And in fact, doing so would create a host of legal problems. If a woman has a miscarriage, is she guilty of negligent homicide?

Plenty of people care.

Just the religious nutters.

You said people in Kansas voted for all abortion. You again shift your goal posts. You can't help but be completely hyperbolic and then have to eat the foot that's in your mouth over, and over, and over.

I said they voted to return to the pre-Dobbs standard.

Don't worry, those reading know that you're the one desperate to have to resort to baseless labels that you've ensured have no meaning in society anymore. You just cannot answer questions, so you tantrum and lash out like a toddler. If you want to continue to discuss the topic, grow up and act like an adult.

Um, sorry, man, when you say shit like "Africans are Cannibals" and "Muslims are inbred", you really come off as a racist. So when you say you care about "life', you just mean white folks, right?

All of that anecdotal posturing and yet the Pope does not have anything to do with the secular Italian government that is a republic.

Right, that's why they arrested a Comedian for joking about the Pope being Sodomized by demons.

 

[Sparker]

I forget, what is the topic? Oh right, abortion. It's obscured by the OP's overwhelming need to prove himself RIGHT, and everyone who disagrees with him WRONG.

 

[initforme]

The issue has been settled. Therefore its not an issue anymore. Next.

 

[Chuz Life]

Actually, lots of losers (unborn children).
However, I think it's, sadly, the best solution at this time.

If an abortion is not the intentional denial of basic human rights and protections for children. . .

If an abortion isn't the intentional killing of a child. . .

What then is "sad" about it?

 

[Lockback]

If an abortion is not the intentional denial of basic human rights and protections for children. . .

If an abortion isn't the intentional killing of a child. . .

What then is "sad" about it?

I am completely opposed to abortion except for the life of the mother, etc.
What I meant by "the best solution at this time" was having the individual states vote on it, although I wish each one would ban it.
I think it's extremely sad every time a child is aborted.
Period.

 

[Chuz Life]

I am completely opposed to abortion except for the life of the mother, etc.
What I meant by "the best solution at this time" was having the individual states vote on it, although I wish each one would ban it.
I think it's extremely sad every time a child is aborted.
Period.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Chuz Life]

Yes, you care about human life until birth. After birth, you're on your own, suckers!!!

Prior to parturition, is there an existing human life to "care about?"

Joe?

If all lives are equal. . . which is worse? Caring "only" or more about those who are being denied and killed by abortion? Or caring about them only after they've lived too long and developed past that magical point where you cant stomach denying them anymore?

Which one is really worse?

 

[Lockback]

Thanks for the clarification.

Of course. Glad to do so.

 

[JoeB131]

If an abortion is not the intentional denial of basic human rights and protections for children. . .

If an abortion isn't the intentional killing of a child. . .

What then is "sad" about it?

Fetuses aren't children.

Not according to the law.
Not according to the IRS
Not according to the Census bureau

Prior to parturition, is there an existing human life to "care about?"

Joe?

If all lives are equal. . . which is worse? Caring "only" or more about those who are being denied and killed by abortion? Or caring about them only after they've lived too long and developed past that magical point where you cant stomach denying them anymore?

Which one is really worse?

I would say that cutting food stamps and school lunches to ACTUAL children who have been born is FAR worse than terminating a glob of tissue the size of a kidney bean.

A fetus isn't viable outside the womb, therefore not a life.

Now, if your side was serious about fewer abortions, there's a way to get there. Universal Health Care, paid family leave, comprehensive (non-religious) sex education, and easy access to contraception.

How do you not get there? Standing outside an OB/GYN with pictures of Medical Waste and screaming, "MURDERER" at some poor woman who is probably just there to get a pap smear.

 

[Lockback]

Fetuses aren't children.

Not according to the law.
Not according to the IRS
Not according to the Census bureau



I would say that cutting food stamps and school lunches to ACTUAL children who have been born is FAR worse than terminating a glob of tissue the size of a kidney bean.

A fetus isn't viable outside the womb, therefore not a life.

Now, if your side was serious about fewer abortions, there's a way to get there. Universal Health Care, paid family leave, comprehensive (non-religious) sex education, and easy access to contraception.

How do you not get there? Standing outside an OB/GYN with pictures of Medical Waste and screaming, "MURDERER" at some poor woman who is probably just there to get a pap smear.

Your side adores murder. You guys live for death.

 

[Bitterhook]

How do you not get there? Standing outside an OB/GYN with pictures of Medical Waste and screaming, "MURDERER" at some poor woman who is probably just there to get a pap smear.

That's kind of like saying no one should have a problem with Klan Rally because some hungry folks could really use a hamburger.

 

[JoeB131]

That's kind of like saying no one should have a problem with Klan Rally because some hungry folks could really use a hamburger.

Nope, that's a bizarre analogy, even for you.

You suck at analogies.

 

[Bitterhook]

Nope, that's a bizarre analogy, even for you.

You suck at analogies.

At no point didn't I ever suggest you were bright enough to make the comparison or would even admit it if you were, but that's up to you if you want to have any difficulties with it.

However, you continue to perform as expected, and well within the parameters of your capabilities.

 

[JoeB131]

At no point didn't I ever suggest you were bright enough to make the comparison or would even admit it if you were, but that's up to you if you want to have any difficulties with it.

However, you continue to perform as expected, and well within the parameters of your capabilities.

No, it was just a dumb analogy.

Protesting abortion clinics doesn't prevent a single abortion.

 

[Bitterhook]

No, it was just a dumb analogy.

Protesting abortion clinics doesn't prevent a single abortion.

Still well within the parameters of what is expected, and you are capable of, but you still don't get a cookie.
I don't suspect that is going to change anytime soon either but carry on.

 

[Chuz Life]

Fetuses aren't children.

Is a human "fetus" a biological organism?

It is.

Does a human fetus not have biological "parents?"

They do.

Your denials will never negate those biological facts.

Not according to the law.
Not according to the IRS
Not according to the Census bureau

Do you want to go on record as saying any one of those or all three of those agencies are infallible?

Do we not all have a right (even a responsibility) to shine a light on where they are "wrong?"

I would say that cutting food stamps and school lunches to ACTUAL children who have been born is FAR worse than terminating a glob of tissue the size of a kidney bean.

That kidney bean size child is also an "actual child." Your denials not withstanding.

PS. The right to life is not tantamount to the right to free shit from everyone else. It never has been. It simply the right to be "protected" from unjust acts and unjustified killings.

A fetus isn't viable outside the womb, therefore not a life.

A fetus’s ability to survive outside the womb isn’t what determines whether it’s biologically alive.

Viability is a medical term about when a fetus could survive independently with current technology, not a definition of life itself. A fetus has its own developing organs, metabolism, and growth from the moment it begins—those are biological markers of life, even if it can’t live independently yet.

Now, if your side was serious about fewer abortions, there's a way to get there. Universal Health Care, paid family leave, comprehensive (non-religious) sex education, and easy access to contraception.

Can we agree that children's lives and rights are not something we can "barter" with?

How do you not get there? Standing outside an OB/GYN with pictures of Medical Waste and screaming, "MURDERER" at some poor woman who is probably just there to get a pap smear.

If she is only there for a pap smear, she has nothing to worry about from people simply exercising their 1st. Amendment rights.

Are the ICE agents' rights being violated somehow when protestors call THEM murderers?

 

[initforme]

Is a human "fetus" a biological organism?

It is.

Does a human fetus not have biological "parents?"

They do.

Your denials will never negate those biological facts.



Do you want to go on record as saying any one of those or all three of those agencies are infallible?

Do we not all have a right (even a responsibility) to shine a light on where they are "wrong?"



That kidney bean size child is also an "actual child." Your denials not withstanding.

PS. The right to life is not tantamount to the right to free shit from everyone else. It never has been. It simply the right to be "protected" from unjust acts and unjustified killings.


A fetus’s ability to survive outside the womb isn’t what determines whether it’s biologically alive.

Viability is a medical term about when a fetus could survive independently with current technology, not a definition of life itself. A fetus has its own developing organs, metabolism, and growth from the moment it begins—those are biological markers of life, even if it can’t live independently yet.


Can we agree that children's lives and rights are not something we can "barter" with?



If she is only there for a pap smear, she has nothing to worry about from people simply exercising their 1st. Amendment rights.

Are the ICE agents' rights being violated somehow when protestors call THEM murderers?

Roe is gone. Its no longer an unsettled issue. Voters decide which is the most moral outcome. Next.

 

[Chuz Life]

Roe is gone. Its no longer an unsettled issue. Voters decide which is the most moral outcome. Next.

Even if that were the words of the SCOTUS in Dobbs (it wasn't) and even if it were the official words of all three branches of the "Government," (it's not). . . it wouldn't be true.

Next.