Abortion Bullshit...

[T-Bor]

Fact: life beginning at conception is an ideological, not logical conclusion.

Fact: both parties use abortion.

LOL....life does begin at conception you moron.

You pro-lifers are full of shit...your all about saving the fetus..but once the fetus is born..it's fuck you now..your on your own..Of course you want those fetuses to grow up and become dead soldiers. No problem with that right. You fucking pro-lifers are ok with killing the doctors though right? I guess if the fetus grows up to be an abortion doctor you might just have to killl it right? You fucking hypocrites. You want the fetus to be saved so they can grow up to be dead soldiers. Assholes. Most of the people that are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place.

 

[Shelzin]

Fact: life beginning at conception is an ideological, not logical conclusion.

Fact: both parties use abortion.

What part of you are watching tv in your 3rd month and that baby kicks the crap out that styrofoam plate right off your belly?

Let's really talk about it.

One thing that always amazed me is when you see their little hands right in your tummy. Little hands or little feet.

It is a baby.

Hands and feet don't make someone a person. If it was this guy wouldn't be a person.

 

[g5000]

bullshit....who says you get to make the rules on this? Is it the extinguishing of a human life? Yes. Is it murder? Not sure....are you?

There's actually a scripture in the old testament that says something to the effect of.....

If two men struggle and hits a woman with child, causing her to miscarry, but no further harm to the woman is done...the man at fault will pay the husband a fee to be negotiated......however, if the man were to also harm the woman, then the standard punishment of an eye for an eye, life for a life is applicable.

It's not exact....but it's very close.

That leads me to believe that an unborn child is not necessarily a person yet....or at least doesn't hold equal value as a living, breathing one.

exodus 21:22. It says as long as the baby is born unharmed, the penalty is light.

Regardless, you are conflating the penalty with the actual crime. Clearly doing harm to the unborn child is a crime in the law you are citing. The issue is then how great the penalty is to be. But the fact is that the harming of the unborn is in itself a crime and forbidden. It is saying plainly that you cannot go around hitting pregnant women.





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leave the bible out of law

I did not bring the bible into it. steelplate was attempting to use the bible to prove that God is okay with killing the unborn, but he misread it.

That aside, "thou shalt not murder" has been incorporated into our laws. So has the commandment against perjury.


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[tinydancer]

Fact: life beginning at conception is an ideological, not logical conclusion.

Fact: both parties use abortion.

What part of you are watching tv in your 3rd month and that baby kicks the crap out that styrofoam plate right off your belly?

Let's really talk about it.

One thing that always amazed me is when you see their little hands right in your tummy. Little hands or little feet.

It is a baby.

 

[g5000]

You can call it murder all day long but the law and sensible people realize the law says its not.
You can get past that fact that the law says its not. So you calling it murder is meaningless.you do it for shock value because who can argue against murder right?

Just because murder is sanctioned by the law does not mean it is no longer murder. The law used to say slavery was legal, too. Slavery was still slavery, legal or not. Murder is murder, legal or not.

.

 

[g5000]

It's a rather odd position to say...

'I believe that a human life begins at conception, and thus a 1 day old fertilized egg is no different than a 1 year old child,

but,

I have no problem if the individual states want to legalize what I consider the equivalent of infanticide.'

This is a good topic of discussion, but I would say that the second part of your statement is inaccurate. It is not that pro-lifers are okay with a state legalizing abortion. It is that the Supreme Court took the freedom of the citizens to decide on the issue of abortion away from them, just as it recently took the freedom of choice about whether or not one wants to buy a specific commercial product away from them.

If a state's majority voted to legalize abortion, there always remains the possibility of re-opening the issue to be voted on again. With a court decision we see how overturning it is nearly impossible.


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[tinydancer]

Fact: life beginning at conception is an ideological, not logical conclusion.

Fact: both parties use abortion.

LOL....life does begin at conception you moron.

You pro-lifers are full of shit...your all about saving the fetus..but once the fetus is born..it's fuck you now..your on your own..Of course you want those fetuses to grow up and become dead soldiers. No problem with that right. You fucking pro-lifers are ok with killing the doctors though right? I guess if the fetus grows up to be an abortion doctor you might just have to killl it right? You fucking hypocrites. You want the fetus to be saved so they can grow up to be dead soldiers. Assholes. Most of the people that are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place.

You don't get it at all do you?

You don't get it.

It is not a fetus. It is a baby inside you. Some days it's the feet game. Other days your baby flips completely around in your body.

How the heck do you guys not know this.

I was a dog breeder and I've been with "you know" that beast inside me.

Darlings move inside you. They are not a fetus. You can see their hands and their feet right through your belly.

 

[g5000]

Fact: life beginning at conception is an ideological, not logical conclusion.

Fact: both parties use abortion.

LOL....life does begin at conception you moron.

You pro-lifers are full of shit...your all about saving the fetus..but once the fetus is born..it's fuck you now..your on your own..Of course you want those fetuses to grow up and become dead soldiers. No problem with that right. You fucking pro-lifers are ok with killing the doctors though right? I guess if the fetus grows up to be an abortion doctor you might just have to killl it right? You fucking hypocrites. You want the fetus to be saved so they can grow up to be dead soldiers. Assholes. Most of the people that are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place.

The idea that we want children to grow up to be cannon fodder is what is known as a strawman fallacy. Let's keep those out of this topic.

As for not caring about the child after it is born, your statements carry a thinly veiled message of blackmail. You say, after your kid is born, "your [sic] on your own". It is therefore implicit that you expect someone else to take responsibility for the child instead of the parent.

You are communicating, "Allow us to abort, or pay for the kid with taxpayer money after it is born." If we disagree with being blackmailed in this way, we are somehow portrayed has heartless bastards.

This attitude is a complete abdication of personal responsibility, and that attitude is ripping this country's greatness to pieces from the inside.

It seems to me that the "choice" in pro-choice is extremely selective. If an abortion seems like a sensible choice to someone living in poverty who cannot afford a kid, then wouldn't taking measures not to get pregnant in the first place be an even more sensible choice?

If so, why are we not working double overtime to make people more personally responsible so they make better choices? Why are we rewarding the bad choices and not encouraging the right choices?



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[g5000]

Hands and feet don't make someone a person. If it was this guy wouldn't be a person.

Many pro-choicers would have aborted this human being for the mere reason he had no hands or feet.

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[JoeB131]

The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.

1) That's debatable.

2) Why should a state decide what a woman does with her own body?

3) The chance of even one state outlawing it is unacceptable.

4) Probably not, because doctors will keep on performing them, daring people to arrest them, knowing they'll never be convicted.

5) The REpublicans have used abortion as a tool for 32 years to get working class Christians and Catholics to vote against their own economic interests. Now it's not working anymore. But they can't just walk away from it, because you can't get the nomination without kissing the ring of Randall Terry.

 

[Shelzin]

Hands and feet don't make someone a person. If it was this guy wouldn't be a person.

Many pro-choicers would have aborted this human being for the mere reason he had no hands or feet.

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I don't have a problem with that if it hasn't reached the rapid brain development stage. But that's not the point. The point is that what makes someone a person has nothing to do with anything other than the brain. The guy in the picture is a person. With no hands or feet.

 

[tinydancer]

It's a rather odd position to say...

'I believe that a human life begins at conception, and thus a 1 day old fertilized egg is no different than a 1 year old child,

but,

I have no problem if the individual states want to legalize what I consider the equivalent of infanticide.'

This is a good topic of discussion, but I would say that the second part of your statement is inaccurate. It is not that pro-lifers are okay with a state legalizing abortion. It is that the Supreme Court took the freedom of the citizens to decide on the issue of abortion away from them, just as it recently took the freedom of choice about whether or not one wants to buy a specific commercial product away from them.

If a state's majority voted to legalize abortion, there always remains the possibility of re-opening the issue to be voted on again. With a court decision we see how overturning it is nearly impossible.


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I'm telling you right now if Ryan had been 16 and I would have been able to kill him, I would have moved to that state.

Look guys on the conservative side I'm probably a weird one. But it seems like we can never have a decent discussion any more.

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

I don't know if I could do that, I really don't. So I will not judge. But I really hate the mantra of the Abortion Train.

"come on down I'll rip it out of your body".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.

creeper

Jillian = hate filled liberal...that also lacks imagination and logic..

No, actually jillian is right.

Not sure how she meant it but it is DAMN creepy that MEN are squabbling about something they will never have done to themselves. And, I'd bet 99% of the men who continually spout their opinion about it do not support even one child who could have been aborted.

I'd like to see more men take responsibility for what's in their own pants and quit trying to control what's in women's pants.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

tinydancer

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

 

[tinydancer]

tinydancer

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

It is not a fetus. It is a baby,

I'd like you to just take one minute luddly. The child moves inside your body. So you're sitting there when your Lay's potato chips bag gets kicked across the living room.

And you go......whoa geeze. It's a baby that just kicked that Lay's potato chip bag across the room.

I don't want to be an idiot here and if you have ever seen me in battles with my side, you would understand me better on this issue.

And my heart breaks. They are babies. They are not a fetus. Truth out. It's a baby.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

tinydancer, you have the RIGHT to CHOOSE to believe that.

Doesn't mean its the only possible answer to that question. It only means its what you CHOOSE to believe.

Meanwhile, abortion is legal and its every woman's right to make that choice for herself.

 

[tinydancer]

tinydancer

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

I don't know the answer to this. I'm only talking to you as a woman who has born three children.

I was told I couldn't bear any children after a really big deal over my appendix.

When I found out I was pregnant with Tanya. Let the world explode in the riot of her. Then comes Ryan then there comes Danielle.

Children are a blessing.

I am not a fool. I know sometimes this cannot be the way.

What do we do? But I'd like all of us one day to be able to talk about it. And really talk.

 

[Shelzin]

tinydancer

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

I don't know the answer to this. I'm only talking to you as a woman who has born three children.

I was told I couldn't bear any children after a really big deal over my appendix.

When I found out I was pregnant with Tanya. Let the world explode in the riot of her. Then comes Ryan then there comes Danielle.

Children are a blessing.

I am not a fool. I know sometimes this cannot be the way.

What do we do? But I'd like all of us one day to be able to talk about it. And really talk.

We can Tiny... Well... Some of us can. We likely won't agree... But we can talk. I hear what you are saying. I even agree with you for ME. It actually piss's me off to no end that I have no choice in the abortion, but I'm certainly responsible if it's born. And it's not that I don't want the responsibility... It's that damnit... I'm either responsible or I'm not.

My choice is already made before the scenario even comes up... I want it. But if I didn't want it... Just like she has a choice in having it... I want the choice that I don't. **I** won't ever make that choice. But it should be there.

Now... Just because Pro-Life works in my favor no matter what... Means that it's suddenly the only good way to go for everybody? It's good for ME. But for all my faults and vanity... And yes... I admit I'm pretty damn vain... I'm not arrogant enough to logically say that it's right for everyone.

Now... I don't think we'll ever agree... But I certainly respect your stance and willingness to talk Tiny. Good on you.

 

[Noomi]

The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.

Republicans use the abortion issue as a tool each election, too. Don't forget that.

 

[Noomi]

tinydancer

I don't understand the "all or nothing" I do understand Governor Palin when she found out out of the blue that Trig was going to be downs and she thought about it for just that split second and then she really blessedly so went "game on".

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

It is not a fetus. It is a baby,

I'd like you to just take one minute luddly. The child moves inside your body. So you're sitting there when your Lay's potato chips bag gets kicked across the living room.

And you go......whoa geeze. It's a baby that just kicked that Lay's potato chip bag across the room.

I don't want to be an idiot here and if you have ever seen me in battles with my side, you would understand me better on this issue.

And my heart breaks. They are babies. They are not a fetus. Truth out. It's a baby.

If it is a baby, then is a seed a tree?