Abbas suggests Obama promised 67 lines - E. Jerusalem

[Sally]

Are you being serious? "Ties to the land of Judea through DNA links" If DNA links meant that people could just settle land their ancestors had lived on 2000 years prior, Greeks could reclaim Byzantium or Native Americans could claim land in China. Sheesh, what a concept.

No Arab signed over Palestine to the Jews, and, no Palestinian agreed to give up his home and land to European settlers, it was taken from them. That is just propaganda.

Could that be because the arabs had no land in Palestine to begin with, the demographics show that very little land was owned by arabs. Don't forget the Palestinians are trying to claim land they never held title to or even lived on as they arrived after the Jewish farms started production.

Yes what a concept that a simple blood test could determine a person claims to be indigenous and able to trace their ownership of the land back to roman times as false. Or that the same blood test could show another person has direct links to the land due to a faulty Gene present in 99% of the people who lived their from before Christ till the present day, yet is present in less than 1% of the Palestinian muslims.

The owners of the land could dispose of it how they saw fit and did not need the itinerant muslim workers permission to do so, this would be like saying you cant dispose of your land because a traveller wants to live there free of charge.

You really need to get your head out of the Koran and start reading modern history books that tell the truth.

So, your contention is that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine owned no land so it was ok to ethnically cleanse them. Interesting concept.

There probably were some who put aside money to buy land, but in the main the land was owned by the Turks. For the life of me, I don't know how anyone can think that most of these poor people were able to buy land. American sharecroppers never scrapped enough money to buy their own land. They were stuck working for someone else the same way as the Arabs worked for the rich Turkish landowners.

 

[Phoenall]

Are you being serious? "Ties to the land of Judea through DNA links" If DNA links meant that people could just settle land their ancestors had lived on 2000 years prior, Greeks could reclaim Byzantium or Native Americans could claim land in China. Sheesh, what a concept.

No Arab signed over Palestine to the Jews, and, no Palestinian agreed to give up his home and land to European settlers, it was taken from them. That is just propaganda.

More Palestinians lies. It wasn't taken from them.
The Jews declared independence legally after cessation of the mandate.
Show me documents that show that their declaration of independence was illegal.

What did the mandate have to do with anything?

Everything as it was the mandate that was responsible for the partitioning of the land into 5 nations, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, trans Jordan and Israel. all agreed by the arab leaders who acquired their pound of flesh. It was the arabs that reneged on the treaties they signed as part of the mandate and wanted all the land for themselves. The British should have cut of all supplies to the mandated countries and called in the LoN to assist in quelling the rebellious arab muslims. Flooding the mandate with troops prepared to shoot at the first sing of any insurrection, and arresting the leaders on charges of treason and being in breach of International Law.

 

[Phoenall]

The Arab "armies" were fighting a European neo-colonization project, not "Jews". Get it straight, the Europeans could have been Protestants and they would have fought against them, just as they fought against the Crusaders.

Lol where so you get your lies from??
Why did you put the word 'armies' in quotations?

And yes, the Europeans were Jews, with the exception os a small percentage of them maybe. Also, it wasn't just the recent European immigrants that fought in the war, it was the Jewish residents as well.

What lie? The settlers were European and they wrestled control of land from the indigenous Christians and Muslims. That's just a fact. If you mean by Jewish residents the indigenous Jewish Arabs, as they were called, they were a tiny minority.

Armies is in quotes because outside of the Jordanian Arab Legion, they weren't disciplined military organizations.

They had been invited by the British as part of the mandate terms, just as muslims were invited to Britain. They were valid legal migrants with as much right to be there as any arab muslim. The Jews of Palestine owned more land than the arab muslims and that is why Israel was the shape it was to account for the land owned by the Jews. Very few arab muslims owned land in Palestine they were that poor, and the few that did found it heavy going to make a living. The land was given freely by its legal and rightful owners to the Jews to make a homeland.

 

[Phoenall]

Lol where so you get your lies from??
Why did you put the word 'armies' in quotations?

And yes, the Europeans were Jews, with the exception os a small percentage of them maybe. Also, it wasn't just the recent European immigrants that fought in the war, it was the Jewish residents as well.

What lie? The settlers were European and they wrestled control of land from the indigenous Christians and Muslims. That's just a fact. If you mean by Jewish residents the indigenous Jewish Arabs, as they were called, they were a tiny minority.

Armies is in quotes because outside of the Jordanian Arab Legion, they weren't disciplined military organizations.

Hmm, wonder if montelatici gets a coffee break every now and then. Some times you get the feeling that some of these Muslim posters are sitting on porta-potties while they are busy demonizing the Israeli Jews.

Jews to no one's land

Makes me think of Cartman from South Park when he is playing online games and he gets the runs.

 

[Phoenall]

The Arab "armies" were fighting a European neo-colonization project, not "Jews". Get it straight, the Europeans could have been Protestants and they would have fought against them, just as they fought against the Crusaders.

So you conceded that the Arabs weren't fighting for this mythical Palestine which they themselves did not believe existed. One small step for a moron and false propagandist.

The Arabs really had no say in how the land that was never theirs to begin with was to be divided. It had been Ottoman land for 600 years. Instead they decided to attack the Jews over and over and over. The Arabs had no problems or objections whatsoever with all the Muslim shithole countries that were carved out of the Ottoman Empire. Apparently only the Non Muslim Jewish country established in the ancient ancestral homeland of the Jews seemed to upset them.

Again, Muslim hatred, intolerance and violence towards the non Muslim, that is what this conflict is really about. Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a peep out of anybody about this phony baloney Palestine. As long as the evil Jews weren't in control and it was in Muslim hands, that is what mattered to them.

No, this is about European neo-colonization and the dispossession of the indigenous people. Can't get simpler than that.

NO that is just your excuse for the violence, more illegal arab colonists moved to Palestine after the creation of the muslim nations to swell the population of arab muslims than ever the European Jews did. The arabs were always double the population of the Jews and Christians combined so they kept a demographic advantage. It failed them in 1948 when the Jews fought for their very existence and the arabs fought for nothing. In a straight war the muslims will always fail due to their cowardly manner and religious teachings. It was the intention of the arabs to dispossess the indigenous Jews of everything including their lives, only it was the Jews that ended up dispossessing the arabs of their lives and hopes.

 

[Phoenall]

What lie? The settlers were European and they wrestled control of land from the indigenous Christians and Muslims. That's just a fact. If you mean by Jewish residents the indigenous Jewish Arabs, as they were called, they were a tiny minority.

Armies is in quotes because outside of the Jordanian Arab Legion, they weren't disciplined military organizations.

Are you purposefully not including the approximately one million Middle eastern Jews who had to flee the Muslim savages, who kept screaming at them "go to the homeland that you love so much"? How about their rights, properties, livelihood, assets, etc. ha ha ha

We are talking 1947, there was no large scale immigration from said countries until after the war.

There was large scale immigration from all across the M.E. since the 1850's when the Jews were being ethnically cleansed. It became so much of a problem that iran held the Jews hostage to stop the migration. Look it up it is all there in the history books.

 

[Phoenall]

How do you know I have no interest in what is happening to Christians or any other group elsewhere? This thread is about Israel/Palestine, that's what is being discussed. Why do you insist on bringing up issues that have nothing to do with the I/P situation. India was an exchange of land between Hindus and Muslims both indigenous to the area, so it bears no similarity to the I/P situation.

As far as Syria, I am in fact discussing the issue as we speak on another forum. The Christians of Syria are fully behind the Government and are in the Syrian Army fighting the rebels. Not sure about your claim of forced conversion in Syria, I haven't seen anything to that effect, and I doubt the Government would force conversions. Maybe the Al Quaeda rebel factions are doing that, but again, I haven't seen anything in the press. And, it has nothing to do with the I/P situation which is what this thread is about.

How do we know you don't care about the rights of Christians being killed by Muslim savages? Because you're a troll sock puppet who spends all his time defending Palestinians savagery, that's how.

You aren't fooling anybody, Mohomod. Latici.

Who is defending Palestinian "savagery"? I am just criticizing Israeli savagery.

Here we go again with the BLOOD LIBELS that never seem to have a trusted source. The only savages are the Palestinians when they brutalise and torture people to death and then proceed to eat their entrails. When you can find an example of that type of savagery coming from the Jews then I will join you and condemn them. This is even happening today in Syria

 

[Phoenall]

So you conceded that the Arabs weren't fighting for this mythical Palestine which they themselves did not believe existed. One small step for a moron and false propagandist.

The Arabs really had no say in how the land that was never theirs to begin with was to be divided. It had been Ottoman land for 600 years. Instead they decided to attack the Jews over and over and over. The Arabs had no problems or objections whatsoever with all the Muslim shithole countries that were carved out of the Ottoman Empire. Apparently only the Non Muslim Jewish country established in the ancient ancestral homeland of the Jews seemed to upset them.

Again, Muslim hatred, intolerance and violence towards the non Muslim, that is what this conflict is really about. Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a peep out of anybody about this phony baloney Palestine. As long as the evil Jews weren't in control and it was in Muslim hands, that is what mattered to them.

No, this is about European neo-colonization and the dispossession of the indigenous people. Can't get simpler than that.

What Indigenous People??? In years to come, all those Muslims who are flooding into Europe for jobs will start claiming they were the Indigenous People!!! Actually one of the biggest colonizers in the world were the Muslims when they left the Saudi Peninsula and started taking over other countries in the name of Islam.

Then the Europeans fought back and forced them to flee the stolen lands and crawl back to their tents in the Arabian desert

 

[Phoenall]

no, this is about european neo-colonization and the dispossession of the indigenous people. Can't get simpler than that.

it is about a land underpopulated, under developed and cost more to run that it brought in. It is about giving a people with a rich religious and historical connection of the land back their identity and a haven they had been welcomed to by ottoman and arab after persecution and near extermination. It was about bringing a stagnant region of petty tribes into the modern world. It was about the best division of the failed ottoman empire and the creation of viable states.

well, that's the propaganda. The fact is between 500,000 and 750,000 christians and muslims lost their homes and their land and their offspring are in refugee camps.

islamonazi propaganda

 

[Phoenall]

Who is defending Palestinian "savagery"? I am just criticizing Israeli savagery.

And not a peep about Palestinian savagery. Ñor about Muslim barbarism throughout the world, Mohommod. You are too transparent. Give it up. Or don't , who gives. We'll just keep laughing at your stupid propaganda and lies. How's that.

Not propaganda, just facts. The use of facts to make a point is something that people like you have difficulty with. Your strategy is name calling and spouting bullshit.

But in terms of "savagery" Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF over the past 10 years run in the thousands while Israeli civilians killed run in the 100s. While the death of a Christian, Muslim or Jewish civilian is a sad thing, it is clear to see which side is the most savage.

But you don't use facts, just ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA

 

[Phoenall]

Who is defending Palestinian "savagery"? I am just criticizing Israeli savagery.

And not a peep about Palestinian savagery. Ñor about Muslim barbarism throughout the world, Mohommod. You are too transparent. Give it up. Or don't , who gives. We'll just keep laughing at your stupid propaganda and lies. How's that.

Is this section about Muslims in the world or about the I/P conflict. I am extremely critical Muslims when they cause havoc on the appropriate forum. I just don't understand what Muslim activities in Sudan, for example, have to do with Palestine/Israel.

Because the muslim from sudan will flock to gaza to swell the ranks and attack the jews. We can see it in every muslim war. Iraq was over run with foreign muslims, Syria is awash with European muslims. every muslim arab spring sees thousands of foreign muslims flocking to the fight, and they have done the same in Palestine. Only this time it has backfired on them as they cant leave without showing they are flying a false flag.

 

[Phoenall]

Are you being serious? "Ties to the land of Judea through DNA links" If DNA links meant that people could just settle land their ancestors had lived on 2000 years prior, Greeks could reclaim Byzantium or Native Americans could claim land in China. Sheesh, what a concept.

No Arab signed over Palestine to the Jews, and, no Palestinian agreed to give up his home and land to European settlers, it was taken from them. That is just propaganda.

Could that be because the arabs had no land in Palestine to begin with, the demographics show that very little land was owned by arabs. Don't forget the Palestinians are trying to claim land they never held title to or even lived on as they arrived after the Jewish farms started production.

Yes what a concept that a simple blood test could determine a person claims to be indigenous and able to trace their ownership of the land back to roman times as false. Or that the same blood test could show another person has direct links to the land due to a faulty Gene present in 99% of the people who lived their from before Christ till the present day, yet is present in less than 1% of the Palestinian muslims.

The owners of the land could dispose of it how they saw fit and did not need the itinerant muslim workers permission to do so, this would be like saying you cant dispose of your land because a traveller wants to live there free of charge.

You really need to get your head out of the Koran and start reading modern history books that tell the truth.

So, your contention is that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine owned no land so it was ok to ethnically cleanse them. Interesting concept.

Wrong again little boy the fact is the only people engaging in ethnic cleansing of Christians is the Palestinians as shown by the declining numbers right across the M.E.
This is why the Christians are flocking to Israel for safety, or fleeing to Christian countries away from the barbaric Palestinian scum. If you bother to read the mandate terms you will see that the British were tasked with evacuating all the muslims from the land to make way for the returning Jews. Those few muslims that owned land would recive compensation for the loss of their land and livelihood and have land given to them in their new nation. No person would be forced to leave and could stay as full citizens of the NEW ISRAEL. Now go back to 1948 when the combined might of the arab armies attempted to ethnically cleanse the Jews from the land by the simple matter of committing genocide on them. something the muslims are well known for around the world is their genocides.

 

[montelatici]

More Palestinians lies. It wasn't taken from them.
The Jews declared independence legally after cessation of the mandate.
Show me documents that show that their declaration of independence was illegal.

What did the mandate have to do with anything?

Everything as it was the mandate that was responsible for the partitioning of the land into 5 nations, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, trans Jordan and Israel. all agreed by the arab leaders who acquired their pound of flesh. It was the arabs that reneged on the treaties they signed as part of the mandate and wanted all the land for themselves. The British should have cut of all supplies to the mandated countries and called in the LoN to assist in quelling the rebellious arab muslims. Flooding the mandate with troops prepared to shoot at the first sing of any insurrection, and arresting the leaders on charges of treason and being in breach of International Law.

You do realize that absolutely nothing you have written has a basis in fact.

If you read the source documents you may be able to better understand what all the disagreement is about. The Mandate is not a long document. The key sentence in the document is the following:

"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and..."

So, first of all, the Mandate for Palestine has nothing to do with anything but Palestine, nothing to do with 5 nations. Secondly, it clearly states that yes, there was a desire to establish a Jewish "home" IN Palestine. Notice, it does not say state, country or anything of the like. Thirdly, the creation of a "Jewish Home" IN Palestine was not to " prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"

So, can you understand why the Christians and Muslims might just be a little chagrined?

Read the source document here:

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

 

[montelatici]

Could that be because the arabs had no land in Palestine to begin with, the demographics show that very little land was owned by arabs. Don't forget the Palestinians are trying to claim land they never held title to or even lived on as they arrived after the Jewish farms started production.

Yes what a concept that a simple blood test could determine a person claims to be indigenous and able to trace their ownership of the land back to roman times as false. Or that the same blood test could show another person has direct links to the land due to a faulty Gene present in 99% of the people who lived their from before Christ till the present day, yet is present in less than 1% of the Palestinian muslims.

The owners of the land could dispose of it how they saw fit and did not need the itinerant muslim workers permission to do so, this would be like saying you cant dispose of your land because a traveller wants to live there free of charge.

You really need to get your head out of the Koran and start reading modern history books that tell the truth.

So, your contention is that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine owned no land so it was ok to ethnically cleanse them. Interesting concept.

Wrong again little boy the fact is the only people engaging in ethnic cleansing of Christians is the Palestinians as shown by the declining numbers right across the M.E.
This is why the Christians are flocking to Israel for safety, or fleeing to Christian countries away from the barbaric Palestinian scum. If you bother to read the mandate terms you will see that the British were tasked with evacuating all the muslims from the land to make way for the returning Jews. Those few muslims that owned land would recive compensation for the loss of their land and livelihood and have land given to them in their new nation. No person would be forced to leave and could stay as full citizens of the NEW ISRAEL. Now go back to 1948 when the combined might of the arab armies attempted to ethnically cleanse the Jews from the land by the simple matter of committing genocide on them. something the muslims are well known for around the world is their genocides.

I posted the Mandate link below. Nothing you have written has a basis in fact. The Mandate said nothing about evacuating Muslims, in fact, it said quite the opposite. Its said that the rights of non-Jews were not to be tread upon. You are just making up things. Heck, there are source documents that contradict everything you have written. Why do you even post this nonsense that can so easily be disproven?

"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

 

[MrMax]

Arabs should just realize that they lost the war they started and move on.

 

[montelatici]

Arabs should just realize that they lost the war they started and move on.

Where to?

 

[Roudy]

Who is defending Palestinian "savagery"? I am just criticizing Israeli savagery.

And not a peep about Palestinian savagery. Ñor about Muslim barbarism throughout the world, Mohommod. You are too transparent. Give it up. Or don't , who gives. We'll just keep laughing at your stupid propaganda and lies. How's that.

Not propaganda, just facts. The use of facts to make a point is something that people like you have difficulty with. Your strategy is name calling and spouting bullshit.

But in terms of "savagery" Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF over the past 10 years run in the thousands while Israeli civilians killed run in the 100s. While the death of a Christian, Muslim or Jewish civilian is a sad thing, it is clear to see which side is the most savage.

The fact that the IslamoNazi savages didn't kill enough Jews doesn't make them right. Doh!

 

[Roudy]

Arabs should just realize that they lost the war they started and move on.

Where to?

Anywhere that takes them. That's what Jews did after Arab animals kicked over a million of them out of lands they had been living in for millennia. Oh I forgot, the Arabs won't take them in either, they just like to weep crocodile tears from afar for a crisis they brought upon their own brethren but won't do jackshit for them.

 

[Roudy]

it is about a land underpopulated, under developed and cost more to run that it brought in. It is about giving a people with a rich religious and historical connection of the land back their identity and a haven they had been welcomed to by ottoman and arab after persecution and near extermination. It was about bringing a stagnant region of petty tribes into the modern world. It was about the best division of the failed ottoman empire and the creation of viable states.

well, that's the propaganda. The fact is between 500,000 and 750,000 christians and muslims lost their homes and their land and their offspring are in refugee camps.

islamonazi propaganda

Ha ha. He spouts off IslamoNazi propaganda 24/7 and complains about it when he gets the truth thrown back in his face. Why are they always such whiners?

 

[montelatici]

well, that's the propaganda. The fact is between 500,000 and 750,000 christians and muslims lost their homes and their land and their offspring are in refugee camps.

islamonazi propaganda

Ha ha. He spurs off IslamoNAzi propaganda 24/7 and complains about it when he gets the truth thrown back in his face. Why are they always such whiners?

What is the propaganda. Are you claiming that no Christians and Muslims living in Palestine before 1947 lost their land and homes?