Abbas suggests Obama promised 67 lines - E. Jerusalem

[Phoenall]

Of course they can't. They are still under 90 years of occupation.

The LoN Covenant called for the mandates to assist the people to independence. Britain violated the covenant by pushing the people aside and promoting the agenda of foreigners.

Why do you always deny the Jews their rights to free determination, and the treaty signed by the arab leaders giving Palestine to the Jews as their homeland. The only people pushed aside were the Jews who saw their allocation promised and signed for reduced to desert and indefensible land surrounded by hostile terrorists. The only agenda promoted was that of the arab league that wanted all the land and were prepared to break signed treaties to acquire the land.

As I said before Palestine has been under constant occupation for over 2,000 years until 1948 when it was released by the Mandate and the UN.

Surely Palestine has had more than its fair share of invasions, conquests, and occupations.

WWI was a turning point for Palestine. Palestine came into legal existence when it was separated from Turkish rule after WWI. Its land was defined by international borders. Palestinians were a nation of people distinct from their neighbors. The Palestinians were the citizens of Palestine.

The Palestinians had inalienable rights in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

The only reference to foreigners is that external interference is illegal.

Palestine did not come into existence after WW1 it had been in existence as an area for 2000 years
The land of greater Palestine yes that includes what is now Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan
The arabs of Palestine were indistinguishable from their neighbours because that is were they originally came from
The majority of Palestinians were recent migrants, this is proven by the fact they changed the rules to accommodate the recent arrivals.

The exercised their right to self determination when they refused the offer of a nation in 1948. The only outside interference came from the arab league who invaded the land and tried to wipe out the Jews.


Unless you have an unbiased account that says differently of course, not the usual Palestinian one that adds details to existing treaties because he thinks they should be part of the treaty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

I think there is a misunderstanding as to the meaning and intention of the descriptor: "Palestinian."

The resolutions of the Jerusalem Congress were:

• Palestine should be part of Arab Syria
• Rejection of French proposals for the area
• No foreign influence
• All foreign treaties referring to the area were voided
• To maintain friendly relations with Britain and the Allied powers, accepting help if it did not affect the country's independence

The original Arab Palestinian that you are referring to thought of themselves as part of the Ottoman State of Syria, which was not unreasonable. This is exactly how the Ottoman Empire thought of the territory. (I mentioned this before, in our talks a to why the Treaty of Lausanne never mentions "Palestine." But it did not make an impression.)


(COMMENT)

Using your source (supra), you will no doubt note that it says: "The Congress rejected political Zionism, agreeing to accept British assistance if it did not impinge on Arab sovereignty in Palestine. Palestine was envisaged as part of an independent Syrian state, governed by Faisal of the Hashemite family."

While the Palestine Arab Congress attempted to establish a firm political base, it was not interested in a Palestinian Government; but rather, a Hashemite Government (similar to that of Trans-Jordan).

Most Respectfully,
R

The resolutions of the Jerusalem Congress were:

• Palestine should be part of Arab Syria
• Rejection of French proposals for the area
• No foreign influence
• All foreign treaties referring to the area were voided
• To maintain friendly relations with Britain and the Allied powers, accepting help if it did not affect the country's independence

They may have had a different vision for the future but they did firmly reject illegal foreign interference.

As did the Palestinians in general.

They also rejected sovereignty, independence and freedom

They rejected foreigner's version of sovereignty, independence and freedom.

 

[Phoenall]

Surely Palestine has had more than its fair share of invasions, conquests, and occupations.

WWI was a turning point for Palestine. Palestine came into legal existence when it was separated from Turkish rule after WWI. Its land was defined by international borders. Palestinians were a nation of people distinct from their neighbors. The Palestinians were the citizens of Palestine.

The Palestinians had inalienable rights in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

The only reference to foreigners is that external interference is illegal.

How could the Palestinians have been the citizens of Palestine then when Palestinians only came into existence in the mid 60's ?

What the heck are you talking about. Do some research before posting bullshit.


Palestinian Passport from 1943:

http://tinyurl.com/krgtv6r

Only one problem IT IS A BRITISH PASSPORT as shown by the details on the left and the word BRITISH in the centre of the right hand page.

Another massive fail because yiu don't read what you post in the first place. You have just shown that Palestine was still mandated in 1943 and this person could have come from Syria or trans Jordan

 

[Phoenall]

Surely Palestine has had more than its fair share of invasions, conquests, and occupations.

WWI was a turning point for Palestine. Palestine came into legal existence when it was separated from Turkish rule after WWI. Its land was defined by international borders. Palestinians were a nation of people distinct from their neighbors. The Palestinians were the citizens of Palestine.

The Palestinians had inalienable rights in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

The only reference to foreigners is that external interference is illegal.

How could the Palestinians have been the citizens of Palestine then when Palestinians only came into existence in the mid 60's ?

Can you document that?

Very easily

The arabs who lived in Palestine "understood" they were "palestinians" only after the war of 1967. Before that, Judea and Samaria, together with Jerusalem, were occupied by Jordan, and Gaza was occupied by Egypt- but not a single arab thought of himself as of a "palestinian".
When did the Arabs start calling themselves Palestinians?

Founded in 1964, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is an umbrella organization for groups that represent the Palestinian people before the international community.[35] The Palestinian National Authority, officially established as a result of the Oslo Accords, is an interim administrative body nominally responsible for governance in Palestinian population centers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[36] Since 1978, the United Nations has observed an annual International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.
Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indeependent]

They may have had a different vision for the future but they did firmly reject illegal foreign interference.

As did the Palestinians in general.

They also rejected sovereignty, independence and freedom

They rejected foreigner's version of sovereignty, independence and freedom.

So after hundreds of postings where you require international recognition of Israel and "Palestine", you have dismissed that requirement with THIS post.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why do you always deny the Jews their rights to free determination, and the treaty signed by the arab leaders giving Palestine to the Jews as their homeland. The only people pushed aside were the Jews who saw their allocation promised and signed for reduced to desert and indefensible land surrounded by hostile terrorists. The only agenda promoted was that of the arab league that wanted all the land and were prepared to break signed treaties to acquire the land.

As I said before Palestine has been under constant occupation for over 2,000 years until 1948 when it was released by the Mandate and the UN.

Surely Palestine has had more than its fair share of invasions, conquests, and occupations.

WWI was a turning point for Palestine. Palestine came into legal existence when it was separated from Turkish rule after WWI. Its land was defined by international borders. Palestinians were a nation of people distinct from their neighbors. The Palestinians were the citizens of Palestine.

The Palestinians had inalienable rights in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

The only reference to foreigners is that external interference is illegal.

Palestine did not come into existence after WW1 it had been in existence as an area for 2000 years
The land of greater Palestine yes that includes what is now Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan
The arabs of Palestine were indistinguishable from their neighbours because that is were they originally came from
The majority of Palestinians were recent migrants, this is proven by the fact they changed the rules to accommodate the recent arrivals.

The exercised their right to self determination when they refused the offer of a nation in 1948. The only outside interference came from the arab league who invaded the land and tried to wipe out the Jews.


Unless you have an unbiased account that says differently of course, not the usual Palestinian one that adds details to existing treaties because he thinks they should be part of the treaty.

Direct quotes from original sources.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...ised-67-lines-e-jerusalem-22.html#post8823053

 

[P F Tinmore]

They also rejected sovereignty, independence and freedom

They rejected foreigner's version of sovereignty, independence and freedom.

So after hundreds of postings where you require international recognition of Israel and "Palestine", you have dismissed that requirement with THIS post.

 

[Phoenall]

What the heck are you talking about. Do some research before posting bullshit.


Palestinian Passport from 1943:

http://tinyurl.com/krgtv6r

If I may speak for toastman, I think he means it was not before the 1960's that the Arabs in Palestine began to talk about themselves as being a distinct people or nationality.

I have been on many political forums that discuss this issue, and this one has to have the least knowledgeable and most biased (pro-Israel) posters. Possibly because it is the only American-only forum I frequent.

The Palestinians (Muslim and Christians) thought of themselves as Palestinians centuries ago. More recently, and well before the 1960s, Palestinians held congresses throughout Palestine. The first Palestine Arab Congress met from 27 January to 10 February 1919, with 27 delegates from Muslim-Christian societies across Palestine.

I have no clue where you bozos get the idea that Palestinians weren't Palestinians until the 1960s. Israeli propaganda maybe?

Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you do the research into this article to verify its neutrality, I did and found that the author is pro Palestinian and a supporter of racist attacks on the Jews

Useradres Hana

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search




Lord Balfour's childhood home.JPG
This user supports BDS.








Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2013

Palestinian prisoners end hunger strike as agreement reached with Israeli officials Israel News | Haaretz

Palestinian costumes

Useradres Hana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Another massive fail because of sloppy work.

 

[Phoenall]

OK, so?

That is a document?

This is.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

In particular the paragraph titled There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine

So, The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was not a sovereign state. The propaganda is deafening.

Who was its ruler, where was its capital city, what was its currency and finally who was its GOD. These are all indications of a sovereign state and if they are missing then there was no sovereign state.

Yes your pro Palestinian terrorist propaganda is deafening

 

[montelatici]

How could the Palestinians have been the citizens of Palestine then when Palestinians only came into existence in the mid 60's ?

What the heck are you talking about. Do some research before posting bullshit.


Palestinian Passport from 1943:

http://tinyurl.com/krgtv6r

Only one problem IT IS A BRITISH PASSPORT as shown by the details on the left and the word BRITISH in the centre of the right hand page.

Another massive fail because you don't read what you post in the first place. You have just shown that Palestine was still mandated in 1943 and this person could have come from Syria or trans Jordan

So, Hong Kong did not exist because the people of Hong Kong had British written on their passports (along with Hong Kong), or New Zealanders do not exist because their passports had the word British on them. Talk about "massive fail", to use your juvenile terminology.

https://tinyurl.com/lgtcyjq

https://tinyurl.com/kqd8o5s

 

[Phoenall]

I have been on many political forums that discuss this issue, and this one has to have the least knowledgeable and most biased (pro-Israel) posters. Possibly because it is the only American-only forum I frequent.

The Palestinians (Muslim and Christians) thought of themselves as Palestinians centuries ago. More recently, and well before the 1960s, Palestinians held congresses throughout Palestine. The first Palestine Arab Congress met from 27 January to 10 February 1919, with 27 delegates from Muslim-Christian societies across Palestine.

I have no clue where you bozos get the idea that Palestinians weren't Palestinians until the 1960s. Israeli propaganda maybe?

Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See number 321 above and get educated.

Do you really believe that anyone except brainwashed morons would use a Jewish propaganda site for obtaining facts. Grow up punk.

proof that it is a Jewish propaganda site as your word alone is worthless.

 

[montelatici]

How could the Palestinians have been the citizens of Palestine then when Palestinians only came into existence in the mid 60's ?

What the heck are you talking about. Do some research before posting bullshit.


Palestinian Passport from 1943:

http://tinyurl.com/krgtv6r

Only one problem IT IS A BRITISH PASSPORT as shown by the details on the left and the word BRITISH in the centre of the right hand page.

Another massive fail because you don't read what you post in the first place. You have just shown that Palestine was still mandated in 1943 and this person could have come from Syria or trans Jordan

So, Hong Kong did not exist because the people of Hong Kong had British written on their passports (along with Hong Kong), or New Zealanders do not exist because their passports had the word British on them. Talk about "massive fail", to use your juvenile terminology.

https://tinyurl.com/lgtcyjq

https://tinyurl.com/kqd8o5s

 

[Phoenall]

Surely Palestine has had more than its fair share of invasions, conquests, and occupations.

WWI was a turning point for Palestine. Palestine came into legal existence when it was separated from Turkish rule after WWI. Its land was defined by international borders. Palestinians were a nation of people distinct from their neighbors. The Palestinians were the citizens of Palestine.

The Palestinians had inalienable rights in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

The only reference to foreigners is that external interference is illegal.

How could the Palestinians have been the citizens of Palestine then when Palestinians only came into existence in the mid 60's ?

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
----------------------------------
3.Q. What measures have been taken to bring the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will safeguard the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion? What are the effects of these measures?

A. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council which was made in August, 1925, provides for the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by persons habitually resident in the country who were Ottoman subjects, and persons who were foreign subjects and take up permanent residence.

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations (31 December 1925)

Correct and this dealt with the nations of Lebaqnon, Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. Leaving what you refer to as Palestine to take on British citizenship temporarily.

Correct and the title of British citizen of Palestine came into being.

There was no sovereign nation of Palestine until one was created in 1988, before that time it was Judea and Samaria.

 

[montelatici]

See number 321 above and get educated.

Do you really believe that anyone except brainwashed morons would use a Jewish propaganda site for obtaining facts. Grow up punk.

proof that it is a Jewish propaganda site as your word alone is worthless.

This is getting even funnier. You folks are truly twats. Do you really believe that that site is not a Jewish propaganda site or are you joking?

 

[MrMax]

Too bad Obama has no power to offer anything except maybe a surrender of his own presidency.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh I have more links. How about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU

And this

So the fact that Palestinians considered themselves Palestinians and held congresses as Palestinians as early as 1919 does not matter to you. To you the bullshit you have been fed trumps the truth and facts.

In reality they did not see themselves as a separate entity but part of Syria

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The historical record continued to reveal an interplay between "Arab" and "Palestinian" identities and nationalism. The idea of a unique Palestinian state separated out from its Arab neighbors was at first rejected by Palestinian representatives. The First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations (in Jerusalem, February 1919), which met for the purpose of selecting a Palestinian Arab representative for the Paris Peace Conference, adopted the following resolution: "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds

 

[montelatici]

This is.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

In particular the paragraph titled There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine

So, The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was not a sovereign state. The propaganda is deafening.

Who was its ruler, where was its capital city, what was its currency and finally who was its GOD. These are all indications of a sovereign state and if they are missing then there was no sovereign state.

Yes your pro Palestinian terrorist propaganda is deafening

The ignorance on this forum is deafening. You mean to tell me you are so brainwashed that you didn't know of a kingdom that existed in Palestine for more than a century and yet you make ridiculous attempts at demonstrating some knowledge of the subject?

To your question.

The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem had several kings, it was a kingdom after all.:


Kings of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem:

- 1100–1118 Baldwin I
- 1118–1131 Baldwin II
- 1131–1152 Melisende
- with Fulk 1131–1143
- 1143-1152-1162 Baldwin III
- 1162–1174 Amalric I
- 1174–1185 Baldwin IV
- 1185-1186 Baldwin V
- 1186–1192 Guy I
- 1192 Conrad I

The currency can be seen here:

Roman Catholicism was the official religion, so it was the God of the Roman Catholics that held sway in the Latin Kingdom.

 

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

I think there is a misunderstanding as to the meaning and intention of the descriptor: "Palestinian."

The resolutions of the Jerusalem Congress were:

• Palestine should be part of Arab Syria
• Rejection of French proposals for the area
• No foreign influence
• All foreign treaties referring to the area were voided
• To maintain friendly relations with Britain and the Allied powers, accepting help if it did not affect the country's independence

The original Arab Palestinian that you are referring to thought of themselves as part of the Ottoman State of Syria, which was not unreasonable. This is exactly how the Ottoman Empire thought of the territory. (I mentioned this before, in our talks a to why the Treaty of Lausanne never mentions "Palestine." But it did not make an impression.)

I have been on many political forums that discuss this issue, and this one has to have the least knowledgeable and most biased (pro-Israel) posters. Possibly because it is the only American-only forum I frequent.

The Palestinians (Muslim and Christians) thought of themselves as Palestinians centuries ago. More recently, and well before the 1960s, Palestinians held congresses throughout Palestine. The first Palestine Arab Congress met from 27 January to 10 February 1919, with 27 delegates from Muslim-Christian societies across Palestine.

I have no clue where you bozos get the idea that Palestinians weren't Palestinians until the 1960s. Israeli propaganda maybe?

Palestine Arab Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

Using your source (supra), you will no doubt note that it says: "The Congress rejected political Zionism, agreeing to accept British assistance if it did not impinge on Arab sovereignty in Palestine. Palestine was envisaged as part of an independent Syrian state, governed by Faisal of the Hashemite family."

While the Palestine Arab Congress attempted to establish a firm political base, it was not interested in a Palestinian Government; but rather, a Hashemite Government (similar to that of Trans-Jordan).

Most Respectfully,
R

The resolutions of the Jerusalem Congress were:

• Palestine should be part of Arab Syria
• Rejection of French proposals for the area
• No foreign influence
• All foreign treaties referring to the area were voided
• To maintain friendly relations with Britain and the Allied powers, accepting help if it did not affect the country's independence

They may have had a different vision for the future but they did firmly reject illegal foreign interference.

As did the Palestinians in general.

And the only documented illegal foreign interference was that of the arab league

 

[Indeependent]

So, The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was not a sovereign state. The propaganda is deafening.

Who was its ruler, where was its capital city, what was its currency and finally who was its GOD. These are all indications of a sovereign state and if they are missing then there was no sovereign state.

Yes your pro Palestinian terrorist propaganda is deafening

The ignorance on this forum is deafening. You mean to tell me you are so brainwashed that you didn't know of a kingdom that existed in Palestine for more than a century and yet you make ridiculous attempts at demonstrating some knowledge of the subject?

To your question.

The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem had several kings, it was a kingdom after all.:


Kings of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem:

- 1100–1118 Baldwin I
- 1118–1131 Baldwin II
- 1131–1152 Melisende
- with Fulk 1131–1143
- 1143-1152-1162 Baldwin III
- 1162–1174 Amalric I
- 1174–1185 Baldwin IV
- 1185-1186 Baldwin V
- 1186–1192 Guy I
- 1192 Conrad I

The currency can be seen here:

Roman Catholicism was the official religion, so it was the God of the Roman Catholics that held sway in the Latin Kingdom.

He explicitly stated Arab, implying Muslim, NOT Catholic.

 

[montelatici]

And this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU

So the fact that Palestinians considered themselves Palestinians and held congresses as Palestinians as early as 1919 does not matter to you. To you the bullshit you have been fed trumps the truth and facts.

In reality they did not see themselves as a separate entity but part of Syria

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The historical record continued to reveal an interplay between "Arab" and "Palestinian" identities and nationalism. The idea of a unique Palestinian state separated out from its Arab neighbors was at first rejected by Palestinian representatives. The First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations (in Jerusalem, February 1919), which met for the purpose of selecting a Palestinian Arab representative for the Paris Peace Conference, adopted the following resolution: "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds

When France was given the mandate for Syria and the UK for Palestine, that ended any chance of Syria absorbing Palestine into Syria. By the way, Lebanon was also historically part of Syria, it was split off to maintain a Christian plurality. The fact is, Palestinians existed since Roman times, thru the Middle Ages (Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem) and through modern times. An attempt to deligitimize the Christians and Muslims of Palestine may play well in front of a brainwashed American audience, but is just plain bullshit as seen by the rest of the world.