Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism

[ForeverYoung436]

Jews have been praying, and fasting, and yearning to return to Israel for almost 2000 years.

With 14 million Jews in the world and 6 million living in Israel it seems that praying, fasting and yearning to return to Israel isn't on every Jews agenda.

Should it be the duty of every non Jew to ensure every Jew returns to and lives in Israel?

Isn't a duty for all Muslims to return to Mecca? They fast and pray towards it five times a day, don't they?

For hajj indeed it is!

I am not sure that they pray, as Jews do, with a yearning to return to Mecca. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the PILLARS of Islam. Therefore mandatory for every good Muslim.

Your ignorance has been corrected.

Oh wow...

Your comprehension of the English language is great eh roodboy...

There is a HUGE difference between a pilgrimage, hajj, as I mentioned in my earlier comment that you clearly were incapable of reading and understanding, and a yearning to return.

Before you try to be clever, which you clearly are not, try reading AND understanding what has been posted fool.

Your ignorance is noted!

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--on Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

 

[Roudy]

Nah, the essential part you miss is they require full MUSLIM control of the land known as "the cradle of Islam" and in fact do not let dirty infidels like us set foot in their holy land. Similarity but not so intolerantly and violently, Jews have considered Israel to be THEIR holy land for the last 4000 years. And there were periods when Muslim animals had control and didn't let Jews anywhere near their holy sites, and in fact plopped a mosque RIGHT ON TOP of the holiest site in Judaism, as a way to plant the flag of Islam.

So the millions of stampeding donkeys that do the hajj can just stay there. Plenty of space out there in the Saudi desert where their peaceful, tolerant, law abiding, considerate "prophet" roamed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

 

[Roudy]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

Are you quoting some moron at UC Berkeley?

No more questions, your honor.

 

[Humanity]

With 14 million Jews in the world and 6 million living in Israel it seems that praying, fasting and yearning to return to Israel isn't on every Jews agenda.

Should it be the duty of every non Jew to ensure every Jew returns to and lives in Israel?

Isn't a duty for all Muslims to return to Mecca? They fast and pray towards it five times a day, don't they?

For hajj indeed it is!

I am not sure that they pray, as Jews do, with a yearning to return to Mecca. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the PILLARS of Islam. Therefore mandatory for every good Muslim.

Your ignorance has been corrected.

Oh wow...

Your comprehension of the English language is great eh roodboy...

There is a HUGE difference between a pilgrimage, hajj, as I mentioned in my earlier comment that you clearly were incapable of reading and understanding, and a yearning to return.

Before you try to be clever, which you clearly are not, try reading AND understanding what has been posted fool.

Your ignorance is noted!

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

 

[Roudy]

Isn't a duty for all Muslims to return to Mecca? They fast and pray towards it five times a day, don't they?

For hajj indeed it is!

I am not sure that they pray, as Jews do, with a yearning to return to Mecca. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the PILLARS of Islam. Therefore mandatory for every good Muslim.

Your ignorance has been corrected.

Oh wow...

Your comprehension of the English language is great eh roodboy...

There is a HUGE difference between a pilgrimage, hajj, as I mentioned in my earlier comment that you clearly were incapable of reading and understanding, and a yearning to return.

Before you try to be clever, which you clearly are not, try reading AND understanding what has been posted fool.

Your ignorance is noted!

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Tell you what Abdul, lets get some equal treatment here. Treat others as you expect them to treat you, eh?

Until Muslims allow non Muslims to visit their holy land, then Muslims should not be allowed to enter all Christian, Hindu, Bhuddist, Zoorastrian and Jewish holy sites.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

Are you quoting some moron at UC Berkeley?

No more questions, your honor.

More proof that we need a stupid post button.

 

[Roudy]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

Are you quoting some moron at UC Berkeley?

No more questions, your honor.

More proof that we need a stupid post button.

You'd be one of the top receivers in that category. Right up there with the other "champions".

I mean seriously, UC Berkely, home to the Antifa and Muslim Brotherhood. Gimmi a break!

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

Are you quoting some moron at UC Berkeley?

No more questions, your honor.

More proof that we need a stupid post button.

You'd be one of the top receivers in that category. Right up there with the other "champions".

I mean seriously, UC Berkely, home to the Antifa and Muslim Brotherhood. Gimmi a break!

Of course you would not know that they are merely quoting standards in international law.

 

[Roudy]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure you understand who "Palestinians" re today, in relation to a territory.

(BREAKDOWN & FACTORING)

View attachment 173497 [The] fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory.
View attachment 173498 [D]efined by international borders.​

(COMMENT)

✪ Palestinians are not now, nor have they been for some 70 years, citizens of the territories (as defined by the Palestine Order in Council of August 1922) to which the Mandate for Palestine (at onetime) applied.

✪ In the past century, there has been a number of transitions pertaining to the lands under discussion:

1918 and Prior: The inhabitants of the lands under discussion are considered citizens of the greater Ottoman Empire;

1918: Ottoman Empire surrenders to the Allied Powers through the Armistice of Mudros. The entire set of lands, described under in the Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916), is placed under the unconditional control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (South). This EOTA status included the lands west of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea; the Vilayet of Beirut and the Independent Sanjuk of Jerusalem (at the tie of the surrender, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine"). (See Middle East Area Map)
Between 1918 and 1920, the inhabitants of the lands under discussion were under the control (with full executive, legislative, and judicial authority) of the Military Government.

1920: The lands transition form the Military Government (as under the EOTA) to a Civil Administration; under the agreement of the Allied Powers that set the framework for the mandate.

1922: The citizens, once under Enemy Occupation, became citizens of the Mandate Government of Palestine; the government being (for all intent and purposes) the administration of Great Britain. Palestine is then defined as being within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers. That being established, the lands under discussion were the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."

1925: The Citizenship Order is essentially unchanged from that established in 1922 by the Mandatory and implemented through the Mandate Authority.

1948: Mid-night 14/15th May, 1948, on the departure of the British High Commissioner, the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC) assumes the role of the Government of Palestine; having been fully coordinated. The Provisional Government for the State of Israel Declares Independence; initially under the territorial boundaries (Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State) established by A/RES/181 (II) (1947). Almost immediately, and before the boundaries could be solidified, the Arab League Forces execute a coordinated attack; crossing their borders and entering the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." On the cessation of hostilities, and the execution of the four Armistice Agreements, new lines of effective control were established. Among these areas of effective control, both Egypt and Jordan seized territory that were once allotted (but rejected by the Arab Higher Committee) in the Partition as the New Arab State (Part II - Boundaries, Section A - Arab State). The City of Jerusalem was divided (Israeli-Jordanian) and the (Part II - Boundaries, Section C - Jerusalem)

1950: "[E]lections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.] Source: Kingdom of Jordan History Site - - Unification of the Two-Banks. Thus, the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank became citizens of Jordan. The citizens of the Gaza Strip remained under an Egyptian Military governorship.

1967: Israel establishes effective control.

1988: Jordan abandons the West Bank into the Hands of Israeli Control. West Bank Palestinians loose Jordanian Citizenship.​

You know the rest ⇒

This idea you have that somehow, the boundaries established to facilitate the Mandate, have an impact today on the Arab Palestinians. It s simply not that simple.

Today, the international understanding of the term "Palestine" and what it means is the subject of a five page UN Legal Affairs Memo regarding A/RES/67-19 dated 11 December 2012. What you define as "Palestine" is simply not that simple. I suggest you take the time to read it.

Most Respectfully,
R

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

Are you quoting some moron at UC Berkeley?

No more questions, your honor.

More proof that we need a stupid post button.

You'd be one of the top receivers in that category. Right up there with the other "champions".

I mean seriously, UC Berkely, home to the Antifa and Muslim Brotherhood. Gimmi a break!

Of course you would not know that they are merely quoting standards in international law.

Biased Leftwingnut writers in an infamous school run by delusional, safe space requiring, Muslim Brotherhood, leftie punks. Why in the world would anybody question the veracity of the hit piece titled "Illegal Occupation...Palestinian...blah blah" written by Muslims? I wonder.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Isn't a duty for all Muslims to return to Mecca? They fast and pray towards it five times a day, don't they?

For hajj indeed it is!

I am not sure that they pray, as Jews do, with a yearning to return to Mecca. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the PILLARS of Islam. Therefore mandatory for every good Muslim.

Your ignorance has been corrected.

Oh wow...

Your comprehension of the English language is great eh roodboy...

There is a HUGE difference between a pilgrimage, hajj, as I mentioned in my earlier comment that you clearly were incapable of reading and understanding, and a yearning to return.

Before you try to be clever, which you clearly are not, try reading AND understanding what has been posted fool.

Your ignorance is noted!

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I do not think I mentioned anything about creating a state. I read it twice again.

For starters, the UN cannot create or dissolve states. How the UN deals with "states" is in the political not legal realm.

(COMMENT)

What we are talking about is the Customary Law being established.

Your supposition appears to be that the Arab Palestinians had some claim to Sovereignty over a territory. And this territory was defined by boundaries that the Allied Powers established; that being the territory once subject to the Mandate for Palestine.

• The Arab Palestinians did not have sovereignty over that territory before the outbreak of The Great War.
• The Arab Palestinians were not party to the Armistice of Mudros and were not a Party to any Subsequent Treaties at the conclusion of hostilities; not a single one.
• The Arab Palestinians did not establish sovereignty over any territory during The Great War.
• The Arab Palestinians were not sovereign over any territory at the conclusion of hostilities.
• The Arab Palestinians were not associated with the Allied Powers during The Great War; and were overseen at the end of The Great War as inhabitants of Enemy Territory. They were administrated under the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
​

You and I have a very different perspective concerning those things that influence law and can have an impact on the legal position the courts might take.

Settling Disputes Between States
• International Court of Justice •
The principal judicial organ of the United Nations is the International Court of Justice (ICJ). This main body of the UN settles legal disputes submitted to it by States in accordance with international law. It also gives advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it from authorized UN organs and specialized agencies. The Court is composed of 15 judges, who are elected for terms of nine years by the General Assembly and the Security Council.

​

But that is neither here --- nor there. In this case, we are discussing the meaning of "Palestine." You may attach any unique interpretation you like to it. But the reality of conventional wisdom and customary law is that it has a specific meaning at any one particular time in history.

Normally, we thin of law as making a "negative determination" (what is a violation). But there are cases when such sounding boards as the UN can make a correction --- first stating a thought, then revoking that thought; an establishing for the record the inverse definition. Such was the case with:

11/10/1975

A/RES/3379 (XXX) which stated:
• Determines that Zionism is a form of Racism and Racial discrimination. •

12/16/1991

A/RES/46/86
• Revocation of Determination Resolution 3379 ("Zionism is not Racism") •
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

Not entirely true, (else the Ottoman Empire could not have been distributed as it was) but in any event no external power HAS except Jordan and Egypt and that has been corrected.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

Not entirely true, but no external power HAS.

This makes your further comments in this post moot. There is no external occupation of Israel/Palestine. It is an internal dispute between two competing peoples for self-determination on part of the territory. Neither "occupies" the other because it has not yet been determined, by treaty, who "owns" what territory. There can be no occupation without a determination of who "owns" what.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I do not think I mentioned anything about creating a state. I read it twice again.

For starters, the UN cannot create or dissolve states. How the UN deals with "states" is in the political not legal realm.

(COMMENT)

What we are talking about is the Customary Law being established.

Your supposition appears to be that the Arab Palestinians had some claim to Sovereignty over a territory. And this territory was defined by boundaries that the Allied Powers established; that being the territory once subject to the Mandate for Palestine.

• The Arab Palestinians did not have sovereignty over that territory before the outbreak of The Great War.
• The Arab Palestinians were not party to the Armistice of Mudros and were not a Party to any Subsequent Treaties at the conclusion of hostilities; not a single one.
• The Arab Palestinians did not establish sovereignty over any territory during The Great War.
• The Arab Palestinians were not sovereign over any territory at the conclusion of hostilities.
• The Arab Palestinians were not associated with the Allied Powers during The Great War; and were overseen at the end of The Great War as inhabitants of Enemy Territory. They were administrated under the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
​

You and I have a very different perspective concerning those things that influence law and can have an impact on the legal position the courts might take.

Settling Disputes Between States
• International Court of Justice •
The principal judicial organ of the United Nations is the International Court of Justice (ICJ). This main body of the UN settles legal disputes submitted to it by States in accordance with international law. It also gives advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it from authorized UN organs and specialized agencies. The Court is composed of 15 judges, who are elected for terms of nine years by the General Assembly and the Security Council.

View attachment 173545
​

But that is neither here --- nor there. In this case, we are discussing the meaning of "Palestine." You may attach any unique interpretation you like to it. But the reality of conventional wisdom and customary law is that it has a specific meaning at any one particular time in history.

Normally, we thin of law as making a "negative determination" (what is a violation). But there are cases when such sounding boards as the UN can make a correction --- first stating a thought, then revoking that thought; an establishing for the record the inverse definition. Such was the case with:

11/10/1975

A/RES/3379 (XXX) which stated:
• Determines that Zionism is a form of Racism and Racial discrimination. •

12/16/1991

A/RES/46/86
• Revocation of Determination Resolution 3379 ("Zionism is not Racism") •
​

Most Respectfully,
R

You believe that since the Palestinians have been prevented from exercising their right to sovereignty, they do not have that right. Of course that is not true.

Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
   1. (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
   2. (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236​

Note that the Palestinians exist and that Palestine exists. Also note that it is the people who have the right to sovereignty. There was no mention of government, country, or state.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Neither "occupies" the other because it has not yet been determined, by treaty, who "owns" what territory.

Yes it has. Israel occupies Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Christian Palestinian Woman Speaks Out Against Israeli Occupation

 

[Shusha]

Neither "occupies" the other because it has not yet been determined, by treaty, who "owns" what territory.

Yes it has. Israel occupies Palestine.

You are trying to make the claim that Israel is an external power. She is not. Israel has no existence or presence outside the territory in question. It is an internal dispute between two peoples -- each with a valid claim to the territory.

The only way to deny that is to go against your own assertion that sovereignty rests with the people seeking self-determination. You keep trying to have it both ways.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Neither "occupies" the other because it has not yet been determined, by treaty, who "owns" what territory.

Yes it has. Israel occupies Palestine.

You are trying to make the claim that Israel is an external power. She is not. Israel has no existence or presence outside the territory in question. It is an internal dispute between two peoples -- each with a valid claim to the territory.

The only way to deny that is to go against your own assertion that sovereignty rests with the people seeking self-determination. You keep trying to have it both ways.

Israel's independence was claimed by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of colonists. The government of Israel was created with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.

Both Britain and the Zionists spoke openly about their colonial project.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, as you know, → over time, new laws are enacted → old laws are adjusted and reinterpreted. In some cases, exceptions to customary and contemporary legal views set new precedence.

Out of the can, pre-processed legal views being used by black'n'white minded executives attempting to be adjudicators in exceptionally difficult political-military (POL-MIL) situations → usually lead to errors in assessment and judgment. Attmepting to apply your canned legal soundbites are an example of such.

No external power has the authority to transfer or annex land defined by international borders.

No external power has the authority to denationalize or otherwise change the status of citizens inside a defined territory.

(a)Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power. The roots of this principle emanate from the principle of the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force. Under contemporary international law, and in view of the principle of self determination, sovereignty is vested in the population under occupation.
(b)The occupying power is entrusted with the management of public order and civil life in the territory under control. In view of the principle of self-determination, the people under occupation are the beneficiaries of this trust. The dispossession and subjugation of these people violate this trust.
(c)Occupation is temporary. It may be neither permanent nor indefinite.

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=1299&context=bjil​

(COMMENT)

• Sovereignty and title in an occupied territory are not vested in the occupying power.

✪ ⇒ International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty by a state. At the top of the list is "occupation." Whether of not the POL-MIL environment accepts the unilateral decision to recognize seized territory as annexed by another state ---- does not change the fact that the territory is seized and defended [reason immaterial (subject to another debate)].​

• IF the insertion of the idea that "actual or threatened use of force" had relevance, THEN the debate should be over.

✪ ⇒ On the termination of the Mandate, the slate was clean. The intervention by Arab League Military assets (1948), with emphasis (Jordan and Egypt), was the "use of force" trigger. Similarly, in 1967, the massing of Arab League military assets on the frontier after the UNEF was ordered to withdraw was a "demonstrated threat" as the trigger.​

• The "right to self-determination" is not a trigger. While it is a "right" it is a question of "claim rights and liberty rights." Claim Rights places an obligation, duty or responsibility on other parties. Liberty Rights are a type of permission or freedom that places no obligation on any other Party.

✪ ⇒ Self-Determination is a permission and freedom in the simplest view. But in the in-depth view, the right to self-determination has become extremely complex issue in terms of reference attached to foreign diplomacy and the international politics at large. In the post–World War II era, the policy of the Western Allied Powers steadfastly defended the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when
they were determined. In this case, Israel is opposite the entire Arab Middle East. But while the Part II of the Partition Plan, the Arab Palestinians rejected the Partition and the stream of events lead to the effective control over the Gaza Strip and West Bank in the Six-Day War.
​

• Occupation is temporary.

✪ ⇒ Yes, that is easy to say. But an Occupation does not have an "expiration date" or a "withdraw by date."​

Nothing about this is quantifiable in the way of an exact science. It is military environment that is constantly changing, a political environment which is continuously evolving, and a disparate economic impact with a fragmented population without direction.

Customary Law pertaining to "annexation" is very spotted at best. There have been a half dozen cases of unilateral annexation in the century.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

• "Palestine is a territory administered under mandate

Indeed.

No one has denied that it was administered by Britain. The key word here is TERRITORY, and not COUNTRY or NATION.

Ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are the citizens of that territory that is defined by international borders. So how is that not a country?

A 'territory'?

I thought you said they were a 'country'.

Not.

They have no borders.

They are are vacuum or cosmic black hole of unincorporated parcels of land that are only discernible alongside the borders belonging to the surrounding entity.

None of this means diddly-squat in the Real World.

Do you have links to all that crap?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.

None are required in support of something so obvious.