Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism

[rylah]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Was it a joint project? (Rhetorical) Yes, very much so.

Jewish immigration, ⇒ no matter what the Arab Palestinian impression, was not then and is not now, a Jewish Puppet Colony of the British Empire.

Debatable, but it really does not matter. It was a joint project.

(COMMENT)

Whatever else was said, the principle objective was the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

Most Respectfully,
R

the principle objective was the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

It is the Palestinians, not foreigners, who have the right to determine such a thing.

Thanks.

And Palestinian Jews did.
The Arabs in Palestine proceeded in helping a joint British invasion, later ceding the land to a king from Mecca.

 

[rylah]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That is probably true, "Nobody has ever proven it to be false."

View attachment 173739
​

This is a basic Law of Logic.

Indeed, it had nothing to to with Arab-Moslem sovereignty. Please identify what authority established Arab-Moslem sovereignty.

Shirley, you can link to a YouTube video. One produced by Pallywood Studios, perhaps?

Indeed.

The Palestinians have had sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne.

You still cling to that falsehood.

Nobody has ever proven it to be false. They just dance around the issue.

(COMMENT)

The Tinmore Claim
is
The Palestinians have had sovereignty since the Treaty of Lausanne.
(The authority of a state to govern itself.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question (Excluding the Gaza Strip): In the last thousand years, Where did the Palestinians maintain
a self-governing territory (Sovereignty ⇒ Supreme Authority) state, or nation known as Palestine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I will agree that, there are cases in which the existence of something absent from reality (Palestinians sovereignty or self-governing territory) IS possible to prove; but it would not conform to logical thought. But it would put you into a new realm:

The existence of the "Tinmore Claim that sovereignty for the Palestinians originated from the Treaty of Lausanne" is not anymore unlikely as the existence of a "Unicorn."

I cannot prove there is no such thing (non-existence) as a "Unicorn" or the "Tinmore Claim." (I cannot prove the non-existence of a Bigfoot, Dragons, Monsters, Fairy's, Mermaid, Elf, witches and warlocks, UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis.)

Theoretically, everyone is a member of a constituency that has the "Right to Sovereignty;" treaty or not.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, when Israel claims that there never was a Palestine and there never were any Palestinians, what is their source?

Arab folklore. History, culture, language..and especially the meaning of 'Palestine' in the native language.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't make this more complicated then it needs to be.

You placed emphasis on in Palestine, as if it was directly related to some characteristic or consequence of today's Arab Palestinians. That would be wrong.

Why would everyone say "in Palestine" if there was no Palestine?

You don't make any sense.

(COMMENT)

Don't give me that nonsense.

1. Prior to the end of the Ottoman Empire (1918) for most people, Palestine was an Western Name for an ancient region in the Middle East. But it was an unbounded and unincorporated region --- which was not a political subdivision of any one government. Nor was the region actually under a single government or sub-government for a 1000 years. What is called Palestine by the beginning of the 20th Century was a series consular regions with no fixed boundaries, and under the venue of more than a half-dozen Ottoman Administrations for nearly 200 years previous.

​

2. The Treaty of Lausanne makes no mention of "Palestine."​

Yes, there was something called "Palestine" prior to the surrender of the Ottoman Empire; but not a political subdivision like you are making it out to be.

Just because you hear the name, does not mean there is any special political meaning to it. I am "Appalachian." I was born in the western foothills of the Blue Ridge. Does that mean I have Appalachian citizenship, or that it is an autonomous or self-governing bound territory? No! But my family owns property in Appalachia.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are grasping at straws. Everything changed with the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Stop and think about what you are asking here.

So, when Israel claims that there never was a Palestine and there never were any Palestinians, what is their source?

(COMMENT)

Remember, the term "Palestine" is used differently by different people in different discussions.

Prior to December 2012, stretching back to the end of the Mandate, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine." That status changed. The UN Legal Affairs memo I cited answers your question.

Still there are many people that challenge the validity --- if it really can be said the Arab Palestinians actually have the necessary control that meets the criteria for a State. Some claim that the Arab Palestinians only have the Sovereign control over Area "A."

Most Respectfuly,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Relative to the Arab Palestinians, virtually nothing (meaning very little) changed.

You are grasping at straws. Everything changed with the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.

(COMMENT)

Now the Kurds would disagree with me, but, that is another slippery slope.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Stop and think about what you are asking here.

So, when Israel claims that there never was a Palestine and there never were any Palestinians, what is their source?

(COMMENT)

Remember, the term "Palestine" is used differently by different people in different discussions.

Prior to December 2012, stretching back to the end of the Mandate, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine." That status changed. The UN Legal Affairs memo I cited answers your question.

Still there are many people that challenge the validity --- if it really can be said the Arab Palestinians actually have the necessary control that meets the criteria for a State. Some claim that the Arab Palestinians only have the Sovereign control over Area "A."

Most Respectfuly,
R

Some say Arab clans in Hebron are not the Arab clans in Ramallah or Gaza.
And at the end of the day none recognize a central govt.

 

[rylah]

Abbas said what?

Abbas Tribe

The Banu Abbas (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Relative to the Arab Palestinians, virtually nothing (meaning very little) changed.

You are grasping at straws. Everything changed with the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.

(COMMENT)

Now the Kurds would disagree with me, but, that is another slippery slope.

Most Respectfully,
R

Relative to the Arab Palestinians, virtually nothing (meaning very little) changed.

A lot of things changed. Their proposed international borders became international borders. The land inside those borders was released to the Palestinians. The Palestinians became Palestinian nationals and they became citizens of Palestine.

 

[theliq]

RE: Abbas calls Israel a colonial project unrelated to Judaism
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Stop and think about what you are asking here.

So, when Israel claims that there never was a Palestine and there never were any Palestinians, what is their source?

(COMMENT)

Remember, the term "Palestine" is used differently by different people in different discussions.

Prior to December 2012, stretching back to the end of the Mandate, there was no political subdivision called "Palestine." That status changed. The UN Legal Affairs memo I cited answers your question.

Still there are many people that challenge the validity --- if it really can be said the Arab Palestinians actually have the necessary control that meets the criteria for a State. Some claim that the Arab Palestinians only have the Sovereign control over Area "A."

Most Respectfuly,
R

Well you are on a complete hiding to nothing here Rocco with Respect,your summation is completely wrong friend

Here we go:- Even within the borders of Israel proper Palestinians have built their own towns and revived ones razed to the ground..

A statement by Dov Weissglas,spokesman for Ariel Sharon who wrote on Sharon's behalf in Ha'aretz 2004, that "The significance of the deliberate disengagement plan (from Gaza) is the freezing of the peace process.And when you freeze that process,you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian State,and you prevent a discussion on the refugees(Palestinian)Also the complex (!!!!!!!!me) situation of Jewish-Zionists and their Rapes and War Crimes they committed,moreover ,the compensation due to the Palestinians and return to their RIGHTFUL HOMES WITHIN ISRAEL,the borders and Jerusalem .
Effectively this whole package called the Palestinian State,with all that entails has been removed indefinitely now from our agenda...All with the presidential blessings and the ratification of both houses of the US Congress".

You Zionist Lovers are just the same as the Zionist Filth.....Rocco....steve

 

[Humanity]

Don't make this more complicated then it needs to be.

Or do you mean more difficult to demonize Palestinians?

 

[Humanity]

Oh wow...

Your comprehension of the English language is great eh roodboy...

There is a HUGE difference between a pilgrimage, hajj, as I mentioned in my earlier comment that you clearly were incapable of reading and understanding, and a yearning to return.

Before you try to be clever, which you clearly are not, try reading AND understanding what has been posted fool.

Your ignorance is noted!

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

Seems you missed the point...

With the majority of Jews living OUTSIDE of Israel and Israel being the "only safe haven" for Jews... Why are not ALL Jews living in Israel?

If I were from a 'persecuted' people I for one would be wanting to hot foot it to a place that was safe for my 'people'!

Wouldn't you?

If it is a commandment then surely every god fearing Jew should be living in Israel?

 

[rylah]

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

Seems you missed the point...

With the majority of Jews living OUTSIDE of Israel and Israel being the "only safe haven" for Jews... Why are not ALL Jews living in Israel?

If I were from a 'persecuted' people I for one would be wanting to hot foot it to a place that was safe for my 'people'!

Wouldn't you?

If it is a commandment then surely every god fearing Jew should be living in Israel?

Sounds like You have not walked too many years on earth.

Majority of Arabs don't live in Palestine either, and it's never been their only safe haven, if ever.
Q.So what happens when we use that argument in the opposite direction?

 

[Humanity]

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

Seems you missed the point...

With the majority of Jews living OUTSIDE of Israel and Israel being the "only safe haven" for Jews... Why are not ALL Jews living in Israel?

If I were from a 'persecuted' people I for one would be wanting to hot foot it to a place that was safe for my 'people'!

Wouldn't you?

If it is a commandment then surely every god fearing Jew should be living in Israel?

Sounds like You have not walked too many years on earth.

Majority of Arabs don't live in Palestine either, and it's never been their only safe haven, if ever.
Q.So what happens when we use that argument in the opposite direction?

Well, that doesn't work does it.

Which commandment in the Arab 'book' says that they must all live in Palestine?

Have a little think about it... Go on, see if you can work it out without taking 50/50 or asking the audience! Geeze

So, let me ask you... Who is it that hasn't walked too many years on earth? To help you with that one... Go check the mirror!

 

[rylah]

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

Seems you missed the point...

With the majority of Jews living OUTSIDE of Israel and Israel being the "only safe haven" for Jews... Why are not ALL Jews living in Israel?

If I were from a 'persecuted' people I for one would be wanting to hot foot it to a place that was safe for my 'people'!

Wouldn't you?

If it is a commandment then surely every god fearing Jew should be living in Israel?

Sounds like You have not walked too many years on earth.

Majority of Arabs don't live in Palestine either, and it's never been their only safe haven, if ever.
Q.So what happens when we use that argument in the opposite direction?

Well, that doesn't work does it.

Which commandment in the Arab 'book' says that they must all live in Palestine?

Have a little think about it... Go on, see if you can work it out without taking 50/50 or asking the audience! Geeze

So, let me ask you... Who is it that hasn't walked too many years on earth? To help you with that one... Go check the mirror!

Arab colonialism - It's pretty much how Arabs view Spain as Muslim land.

The commandment Sheikh Jaabri of Hebron repeats each time - no Palestinian govt has any authority over the land, since the land is not anyone's property but the Muslim Waqf.

 

[Kondor3]

None of this $hit really matters.

The Jews now hold the former Ottoman province of Palestine.

The Jews have re-tasked that land, as have so many (Muslims, Christians, pagans, etc.) before them.

The Jews call that re-tasked land "Israel".

It is now a place "of", "by", and "for" Jews.

It is their spiritual and ancestral homeland, anyway - historically associated more with Judaism than any other belief system.

It is a final redoubt for the Jews against a world that has persecuted them intermittently for nearly 2,000 years - a place maintained by Jews, to take-in Jewish refugees as needed.

Most of the rest of the world doesn't like it, but nobody cares enough to go to war over it - especially Muslims, who got their asses kicked repeatedly trying, earlier.

Re-tasked Palestine... Israel... now belongs to the Jews... like it or not... they are now a regional military superpower... and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it.

Neanderthal beetle-browed hangers-on from previous times need to get it through their thick skulls that it's time to pack up and leave... there is no point to further delay.

Time for Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians to face Reality and leave, to make new and safer and happier and supportive futures for themselves and their families, elsewhere.

Hanging-around refugee towns and refugee camps for 70 years and sucking off the welfare teat for generations is not the mark of all-round high intelligence or initiative.

Any Palestinian with an ounce of brains and two shekels to rub together needs to get his people out of that insane asylum of pseudo-Islamic death cults and terrorism.

To Muslim-Arab so-called 'Palestinians'... there's no way you are ever going to win... no way... never... so... snap out of it... wake up... face Reality... and leave.

 

[admonit]

It is a mitzvah (one of the 613 commandments) for a Jew to actually live in Israel, and not only to make a pilgrimage there. Once a Jew lives there, he should make a pilgrimage 3x a year to Jerusalem--om Passover, Tabernacles and Pentecost.

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

If it is a commandment

It is not. You already were told it.

 

[rylah]

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

Seems you missed the point...

With the majority of Jews living OUTSIDE of Israel and Israel being the "only safe haven" for Jews... Why are not ALL Jews living in Israel?

If I were from a 'persecuted' people I for one would be wanting to hot foot it to a place that was safe for my 'people'!

Wouldn't you?

If it is a commandment then surely every god fearing Jew should be living in Israel?

Sounds like You have not walked too many years on earth.

Majority of Arabs don't live in Palestine either, and it's never been their only safe haven, if ever.
Q.So what happens when we use that argument in the opposite direction?

Well, that doesn't work does it.

Which commandment in the Arab 'book' says that they must all live in Palestine?

Have a little think about it... Go on, see if you can work it out without taking 50/50 or asking the audience! Geeze

So, let me ask you... Who is it that hasn't walked too many years on earth? To help you with that one... Go check the mirror!

Arab colonialism - It's pretty much how Arabs view Spain as Muslim land.

The commandment Sheikh Jaabri of Hebron repeats each time - no Palestinian govt has any authority over the land, since the land is not anyone's property but the Muslim Waqf.

Whooo you are all over the place aren't you!

Try and stay focused on what is being discussed not jumping from one to another.

I appreciate that ADHD is prevalent among those not long on this planet. I mistakenly thought that you were more mature in age! ;-)

I suggest You read again the headline of this thread and compare its relevance to Your deflection.

Arabian tribes claiming someone colonized lands they've invaded - is idiocy
Claiming that Israel has no relation to Judaism- is idiocy.
Claiming that Israel has no right to exist because not all Jews are religious - is even more idiocy.

Now I hear Vatican and Spain are occupied Arab lands... anyway they're not that pious right?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Yes I know.... Seems that other's DON'T know!

So, why don't they? I mean, live in Israel?

I'm all for it!

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

If it is a commandment

It is not. You already were told it.

I think Rambam holds that living in Israel is one of 613 mitzvot. But most Jews are comfortable where they are.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

However, Israel HAS served as a refuge and haven--for Jews from Yemen, Ethiopia, Russia, and now France.

My grandparents and uncles had nowhere to go after WW2 except for Israel. At that time, even the United States wouldn't let them in. There was great anti-Semitism in Poland, and even some pogroms, after the War. The Poles blamed the Jews for the destruction of their country by the Nazis.

 

[admonit]

Why don't all Jews live in Israel? See Post #16 in this thread.

Naughty Jews, not following Mitzvah!

I guess Post #16 in this thread goes some way to explaining that Jews are not in 'danger' in the rest of the world and the need to a safe(?) homeland is actually not that necessary.

That is either woefully naive or purposefully false.

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

I specifically used a three year old article to trace a bit of recent history. It’s not just coincidence that the waves of Islamists invading Europe for welfare benefits brought with them “cultural ills” which include rabid Jew hatreds.

The situation is even worse now, more than three years later. Do you need more?

If it is a commandment

It is not. You already were told it.

I think Rambam holds that living in Israel is one of 613 mitzvot. But most Jews are comfortable where they are.

Apparently not.

"Nachmanides wrote a critique of Maimonides Sefer HaMitzvot. Sefer HaMitzvot is an enumeration and description of the 613 mitzvot of the Torah. As part of his critique, Nachmanides provided a list of commandments that Maimonides neglected to count in his enumeration of the 613 mitzvot. In his list of positive commandments that Maimonides “missed”, Nachmanides includes the mitzvah to posses the land of Israel. "
Parshat Shelach: Are We Required to Live in Israel? - OU Torah