A very specific "off ramp" to end to the shutdown, majority rules. (Poll)

[WorldWatcher]

Like 99% of ALL Americans i learned yesterday that the government is shut down . I learned this because someone on a forum like this one mentioned it.

The vast majority of Americans did not even notice.

So why should anyone care? If the government can shut down and no one even notices which they HAVE NOT. We should seriously consider simply get rid of most of the government. Just leave it shut down and be done with it.

trillions of dollars of debt to run a needlessly bloated and worthless institution.

This is why we don't have government shutdowns, we don't. We have government slow-downs.

Shouldn't we dispense with this nansy-pansy type of "partial" shutdown bull crap.

If Congress is going to shutdown the government than they should be required to actually shut it down. None of this "essential" work force bull shyte.

Shut it down and make it painful so that Congress will really hear from constituents.

Government workers (all of them) are sent home with no back pay for time missed. This includes EVERYONE.

• Air Traffic Controllers get to stay on the job until aircraft have landed, no new flights are allowed to take off or enter American air space from other countries if they took off after the shutdown time. Shutdown all government airport and train operations.
• FBI, Border Patrol, NSA, CIA, etc. - Go home. We'll call you to come back.
• Government processing of financials stops.
• No Social Security checks issued.
• No Medicare checks issued.
• No VA checks issued.
• No pay for the military.
• No pay for military retirees.
• Payment to State and School districts for everything stops.
• Federal Courts shut down.
• Federal Prisons? Lock the inmates in their cell with a weeks worth of MRE's.
• etc.

Congressional staff is sent home. The only ones allowed to work in the empty Capital Building are the actual members of Congress because under the Constitution their compensation cannot be reduced during their term of office so they are the only ones getting paid.

If a shutdown was a real shut down Congress would think twice before ignoring their responsibilities and pulling political stunts.

WW

 

[Edgetho]

OK, sorry. But you added the part I was referring to, below. "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof", which illegals are not, since they are not citizens, don't pay taxes, don't vote, etc.

Did the Supreme Court rule on the 2020 census counting illegals yet?

View attachment 1169638

The wording of the 14th is very clear..... "Born OR Naturalized" "AND subject to....."

dimocrap FILTH, being the FILTH and the scum of the Earth that are, try to confate the words 'And' with 'Or'

You MUST be BORN or Naturalized AND Subject to, NOT born or naturalized OR subject to.

dimocraps are the scum of the Earth. Every.Last.One.Of.Them.

especially the voters

 

[Moonglow]

How long can the shutdown last? A month? Two months?

We have two entrenched/obstinate political parties, neither willing to compromise.

The military and other "essential workers" get screwed by having their paychecks held up, but their bills aren't.

Here is one possibility:
1. Sen. Thune re-writes the senate rules for shutdowns, that if a shutdown lasts longer than 14-days, a clean CR can be passed by a simple majority.

2. If that CR expires, appropriations bills can also be passed with a simple majority.

The United States of America should not be held hostage by either political party. The senate majority, with the VP breaking ties, should be able to pass a budget.

Ahhh, yes, the life of a soldier.....Always at the brunt of every turd.

 

[Soupnazi630]

This is why we don't have government shutdowns, we don't. We have government slow-downs.

Shouldn't we dispense with this nansy-pansy type of "partial" shutdown bull crap.

If Congress is going to shutdown the government than they should be required to actually shut it down. None of this "essential" work force bull shyte.

Shut it down and make it painful so that Congress will really hear from constituents.

Government workers (all of them) are sent home with no back pay for time missed. This includes EVERYONE.

• Air Traffic Controllers get to stay on the job until aircraft have landed, no new flights are allowed to take off or enter American air space from other countries if they took off after the shutdown time. Shutdown all government airport and train operations.
• FBI, Border Patrol, NSA, CIA, etc. - Go home. We'll call you to come back.
• Government processing of financials stops.
• No Social Security checks issued.
• No Medicare checks issued.
• No VA checks issued.
• No pay for the military.
• No pay for military retirees.
• Payment to State and School districts for everything stops.
• Federal Courts shut down.
• Federal Prisons? Lock the inmates in their cell with a weeks worth of MRE's.
• etc.

Congressional staff is sent home. The only ones allowed to work in the empty Capital Building are the actual members of Congress because under the Constitution their compensation cannot be reduced during their term of office so they are the only ones getting paid.

If a shutdown was a real shut down Congress would think twice before ignoring their responsibilities and pulling political stunts.

WW

Exactly

This shit happenes every so often and every time it does we are told " dont worry essential government services will still function ".

No one wants to ask the obvious question which is why the hell are we paying taxes to run NONESSENTIAL services in the first place?

 

[WorldWatcher]

No one wants to ask the obvious question which is why the hell are we paying taxes to run NONESSENTIAL services in the first place?

I see this all the time.

Because people take the word "nonessential" to mean not needed in the short term. I believe the actually term in the law is "excepted" employees. And shame on the media and politicians for conflating the two terms.

Excepted employees still don't get paid during a shutdown, but are required to report to work anyway. They just get retro pay. Excepted employees are those that in place to directly protect lives and property. So we are talking law enforcement, the military (of course), federal prison guards, air traffic controllers, TSA, etc.

Not being an "excepted" employee does NOT mean non-essential in the long term.

Let's just take one as an example. An employee for fedeal courts is responsibile for cases and attorny's for the federal governemnt put on furlough. That employee (and all the others in that work situation) does not fall under protecting life or property, so that employee is put on furlough. What that means that the federal court system will be shutdown. Criminal and civil cases will not proceed generating even more of a backlog as things have to be rescheduled for later and new cases develop. (Typically the Federal Courts may have a small delay before being shut down as there is some revenue from fees, but that is beside the point.)

I don't think that anyone would claim that a functioning court system is "non-essential", but they are not "excepted" from the shutdown because they are not directly invovled with protecting property or lives.

As another might be the Social Securityh Administration furlogughing people that do benefit verifications, which can slow down the processing of payments both to the individual and to medical providers providing services.

Excepted != Essential.

WW

 

[yidnar]

Bad idea. Then you'd get DC and PR as states, a packed court, abortion on demand, everything on the dem's wishlist the next time they get majorities.
I prefer a limited option, to just when there is a shutdown. To pass CRs and Appropriations Bills.

have no doubt that the more radical the Dems become .. and they are getting exponentially more radical each year that they may do just that if they regain power .. the most popular and polarizing leaders in the dem party are self proclaimed socialists ..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Pass a balanced budget bill. The Dems can block it and end the federal gov't.

That makes zero sense. You might want to try that again.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That's what you are not getting, you appear to believe that the rule change you want is a good thing and can be limited.

But once the precedent is set, the DEMs will use the same tactic when they are in power to pass their bills.

Remember the GOP has a razor thin margin in both the Senate and the House. Trump barely won the vote of the people and that was only because Biden screwed the pooch and tried to run for a second term. If Biden has committed to being a one term President and the DEMs had a proper primary season (a) Harris wouldn't have been the nominee, and (b) Trump wouldn't have won.

WW

Your hindsight is always 20/20?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

#1 Only 51 votes are currently needed to pass appropriation bills. Ending debate on the bill (cloture) is a different issue.

#2 If you change the rules just for appropriations, then suddenly every bill will have some aspect of "appropriations" in it to fall under that rule.

Better to get past the may way or the highway mentality currently infecting BOTH parties.

WW

There you go being intellectually dishonest again. A bill can only pass the Senate with 51 votes when debate is ended after a cloture vote and that takes 60 to pass. You can't get to 51 votes unless you get 60 first. The sad part is you know that and gloss over it.

Other than that, #2 and the last part is spot on, disregarding the typo.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There is nothing sacred about the 60-vote filibuster. The last 60-vote "filibuster-proof" senate was 1979.

In olden days senators were more open to giving in to the majority. Not today. Today its dog-eat-dog in the senate.

The filibuster is good for "permanent major legislation", but shouldn't be needed for annual or short-term items like approving admin nominees, or budget items like appropriations.

Mainly due to obstinate Democrats.

 

[candycorn]

This is why we don't have government shutdowns, we don't. We have government slow-downs.

Shouldn't we dispense with this nansy-pansy type of "partial" shutdown bull crap.

If Congress is going to shutdown the government than they should be required to actually shut it down. None of this "essential" work force bull shyte.

Shut it down and make it painful so that Congress will really hear from constituents.

Government workers (all of them) are sent home with no back pay for time missed. This includes EVERYONE.

• Air Traffic Controllers get to stay on the job until aircraft have landed, no new flights are allowed to take off or enter American air space from other countries if they took off after the shutdown time. Shutdown all government airport and train operations.
• FBI, Border Patrol, NSA, CIA, etc. - Go home. We'll call you to come back.
• Government processing of financials stops.
• No Social Security checks issued.
• No Medicare checks issued.
• No VA checks issued.
• No pay for the military.
• No pay for military retirees.
• Payment to State and School districts for everything stops.
• Federal Courts shut down.
• Federal Prisons? Lock the inmates in their cell with a weeks worth of MRE's.
• etc.

Congressional staff is sent home. The only ones allowed to work in the empty Capital Building are the actual members of Congress because under the Constitution their compensation cannot be reduced during their term of office so they are the only ones getting paid.

If a shutdown was a real shut down Congress would think twice before ignoring their responsibilities and pulling political stunts.

WW

Uhhh...no.

The inertia of the government can't be stopped immediately. The MRE idea is crazy (for one).

The problem is the filibuster and it's mis-use. What you do is stop all congressional actions so nothing gets passed/rejected on bills A, B, C, D, E.... while bill XYZ is being filibustered. A filibuster stops everything in the Senate. That way, the party filibustering the bill--in this case the spending package--is responsible. Whether or not thats a good thing is up to the people to decide with their votes.

I will agree with you that whom is considered an "essential employee" needs to be pared back.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Of course.

And the DEMs will be able to do the same thing in the future. Remember rule changes in the Senate only require a simple majority.

So watch what you ask for. You just might get it and not like the results. Don't think just this bill, think 5, 10 years down the line.



They aren't happy with Republican rule either.

They are so happy with Republicans that the DEMs currently lead GOP in polls on Congressional ballots.

View attachment 1169623



Stop. There was no "illegally counting" done. The Constitution calls for the counting of "persons".

View attachment 1169625

WW

You also forgot the 3/5th compromise as originally written in. Slaves were not considered whole persons just like Indians were exempted. They were changed by amendment. There were no illegal aliens back then.

 

[candycorn]

There is nothing sacred about the 60-vote filibuster. The last 60-vote "filibuster-proof" senate was 1979.

In olden days senators were more open to giving in to the majority. Not today. Today its dog-eat-dog in the senate.

The filibuster is good for "permanent major legislation", but shouldn't be needed for annual or short-term items like approving admin nominees, or budget items like appropriations.

The budget is the most important thing Congress does.

And you're completely wrong about the "olden days". In olden days, there was some loyalty to the republic. Now it's loyalty to Trump and little else. Back in the day, we had professional politicians who negotiated for the greater good and built the greatest nation on the planet. Now? We have morons like Tommy Tuberville who get elected to high office because they were a mediocre football coach; you could say the same thing about Al Franken who got elected on name recognition only as well. These people aren't exactly deep thinkers.

Politics is a profession best left to the professionals. Today, we have a child-like blob in the oval office so naturally the nation's politics are in a state of complete chaos most of the time.

Aren't you guys tired of it?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This is why we don't have government shutdowns, we don't. We have government slow-downs.

Shouldn't we dispense with this nansy-pansy type of "partial" shutdown bull crap.

If Congress is going to shutdown the government than they should be required to actually shut it down. None of this "essential" work force bull shyte.

Shut it down and make it painful so that Congress will really hear from constituents.

Government workers (all of them) are sent home with no back pay for time missed. This includes EVERYONE.

• Air Traffic Controllers get to stay on the job until aircraft have landed, no new flights are allowed to take off or enter American air space from other countries if they took off after the shutdown time. Shutdown all government airport and train operations.
• FBI, Border Patrol, NSA, CIA, etc. - Go home. We'll call you to come back.
• Government processing of financials stops.
• No Social Security checks issued.
• No Medicare checks issued.
• No VA checks issued.
• No pay for the military.
• No pay for military retirees.
• Payment to State and School districts for everything stops.
• Federal Courts shut down.
• Federal Prisons? Lock the inmates in their cell with a weeks worth of MRE's.
• etc.

Congressional staff is sent home. The only ones allowed to work in the empty Capital Building are the actual members of Congress because under the Constitution their compensation cannot be reduced during their term of office so they are the only ones getting paid.

If a shutdown was a real shut down Congress would think twice before ignoring their responsibilities and pulling political stunts.

WW

Congratulations! You just destroyed the US economy and reduced us to anarchy. Great job!

Why are you so dense?

 

[ozro]

Whenever President Trump wants to end the so-called "shutdown", all he has to do is publicly request that no more votes on the CR be taken in the Senate, that he doesn't want the CR to pass.
The Dems will beg for a vote to pass it.
Until then, I think he has some good stuff planned.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Whenever President Trump wants to end the so-called "shutdown", all he has to do is publicly request that no more votes on the CR be taken in the Senate, that he doesn't want the CR to pass.
The Dems will beg for a vote to pass it.
Until then, I think he has some good stuff planned.

Way to get the problem 180 degree out!

 

[dudmuck]

Mainly due to obstinate Democrats.

its on the president, according to Trump

 

[DonGlock26]

That makes zero sense. You might want to try that again.

How so?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

How so?

Read it. I doesn't say anything.

You said:
Pass a balanced budget bill. The Dems can block it and end the federal gov't.

A balanced budget bill can simply be voted down if the Democrats regain power. How will you get it past a Senate filibuster?
How will blocking another meaningless bill end the federal government?

See? Meaningless claptrap is all you have.

 

[alang1216]

How long can the shutdown last? A month? Two months?

We have two entrenched/obstinate political parties, neither willing to compromise.

The military and other "essential workers" get screwed by having their paychecks held up, but their bills aren't.

Here is one possibility:
1. Sen. Thune re-writes the senate rules for shutdowns, that if a shutdown lasts longer than 14-days, a clean CR can be passed by a simple majority.

2. If that CR expires, appropriations bills can also be passed with a simple majority.

The United States of America should not be held hostage by either political party. The senate majority, with the VP breaking ties, should be able to pass a budget.

Politics is all about compromise. If one side says "take it or leave it", the other side has to be willing to play chicken too.