A very specific "off ramp" to end to the shutdown, majority rules. (Poll)

What ideas do you support to end the shutdown when neither party gives in?

  • Pass clean CR via simple majority after (14) days, simple majority after that to pass appropriations

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • Just go full nuclear for passing Appropriations Bills, a simple majority, no CRs, majority rules

    Votes: 10 50.0%
  • Other see my post

    Votes: 5 25.0%

  • Total voters
    20
Trump didn't do squat.
#1 mRNA vaccines had been in development since 1989. It was private industry that brought the vaccines to bear, not Trump.
Experts like Fau-Chi said it would take at least 4-years to develop a Covid vaccine..."If then".
Operation "Warp Speed" had shots in arms in 9-months because they built production facilities while testing was ongoing.
#2 Pence is the one that headed up the acceleration of manufacture and distribution for which I'll always give him credit. Trump couldn't be bothered with such details as - gasp - logistics.
WW
"Logistics" was for the distribution of the refrigerated vaccines, which is why Trump used the military.
True Pence headed up Warp Speed. The pandemic was all but over by the time senile Joe got to the WH.
1759765419706.webp
 
Experts like Fau-Chi said it would take at least 4-years to develop a Covid vaccine..."If then".
Operation "Warp Speed" had shots in arms in 9-months because they built production facilities while testing was ongoing.

"Logistics" was for the distribution of the refrigerated vaccines, which is why Trump used the military.
True Pence headed up Warp Speed. The pandemic was all but over by the time senile Joe got to the WH.
View attachment 1170437

The COVID epidemic was far from over when Trump left office.

I'm not downplaying the impact of Warp Speed, it was one of the jobs - handed over to Pence - that the Administration did well on.

Where you were incorrect was the (A) Trump made the vaccines, he didn't private research had been working at mRNA vaccines for 40 years or so and (b) $2.2 TRILLION in COVID spending was by the Trump Administration.

WW

1759767230984.webp
 
I like the filibuster to keep one party from going too far left or right. But as you say, now it is used as a weapon.

My recommendation is to only use it for "permanent laws", not for appropriations, or appointments, that are not "permanent".
The Senate could make that adjustment if desired. I kind of like your scheme actually.
 
I wouldn't mind a provision that Senators and Representatives don't get paid as long as a shutdown lasts.
IMHO, they shouldn't get paid until they pass a balanced Federal Budget.

In fact, I think we need to start holding them personally liable for the annual budget deficit, watch how fast they get "fiscally responsible" when we start auctioning off their stock portfolios, mansions and yachts. :)
 
That's already in the Constitution. For the record, Congress has voted down their automatic pay increases for several terms.
Please do not alter my posts without at least stating that you did so.

But you are correct that the 27th amendment does address that they will receive their voted salary increase after the next election of representatives. Senators early in their terms benefit from the salary increase years before their next election though and the amendment does not address other benefits.

Congress can still vote themselves substantial pay raises. They haven't for some time now because of public opinion that recognizes that most in Congress seems to become unnaturally wealthy due to their congressional status. There is a reason that huge amounts are spent on a campaign to get a $174,000/year job.

But when they do vote themselves more benefits or money, it seems to always be late at night after the media has left for the day and/or hidden in large spending bills as described in this link:


What doesn't usually show up to the taxpayers is that every representative and senator receives an MRA (member's representative allowance) of well over a million dollars every year that covers their staff, official travel expenses, offsets at least some of their housing costs in DC, etc. The MRA is generally increased every year but those increases are always buried inside some big spending bill and are almost never revealed to the general public. There are other expenses related to congressional offices, maintenance, furnishings, etc. that are above and beyond the MRA.

The more members of congress can get the government to pay for their 'official expenses', the less out of pocket cost to the member of congress.

And for sure, if Congress cannot pass a CR to keep the government open while they fidget with another late budget, they should forego their pay as long as the government is shut down. And they should receive no back pay once the government reopens.

Make that the law, and we won't see many, if any, government shutdowns.
 
The COVID epidemic was far from over when Trump left office.
I'm not downplaying the impact of Warp Speed, it was one of the jobs handed over to Pence that the Administration did well.
Where you were incorrect was the (A) Trump made the vaccines, he didn't private research had been working at mRNA vaccines for 40 years or so and (b) $2.2 TRILLION in COVID spending was by the Trump Administration.
WW
True the pandemic wasn't over when Trump left office, but the scary part was over.
1. We had vaccine shots in arms when Trump left office, Biden didn't do anything significant to save lives from Covid.
2. We had vaccines under production (Trump/Pence constructed the production facilities while testing was ongoing)
3. I was more impressed with Walmart than I was my health provider, Walmart setup the vaccination sites in my area
4. Do you agree that when the economy is shut down, that people need $2.2T of subsistence?
5. I'm not sure how that ended up? I think the final decision now is "no economy shutdowns or school closures"?
 
Please do not alter my posts without at least stating that you did so.

But you are correct that the 27th amendment does address that they will receive their voted salary increase after the next election of representatives. Senators early in their terms benefit from the salary increase years before their next election though and the amendment does not address other benefits.

Congress can still vote themselves substantial pay raises. They haven't for some time now because of public opinion that recognizes that most in Congress seems to become unnaturally wealthy due to their congressional status. There is a reason that huge amounts are spent on a campaign to get a $174,000/year job.

But when they do vote themselves more benefits or money, it seems to always be late at night after the media has left for the day and/or hidden in large spending bills as described in this link:


What doesn't usually show up to the taxpayers is that every representative and senator receives an MRA (member's representative allowance) of well over a million dollars every year that covers their staff, official travel expenses, offsets at least some of their housing costs in DC, etc. The MRA is generally increased every year but those increases are always buried inside some big spending bill and are almost never revealed to the general public. There are other expenses related to congressional offices, maintenance, furnishings, etc. that are above and beyond the MRA.

The more members of congress can get the government to pay for their 'official expenses', the less out of pocket cost to the member of congress.

And for sure, if Congress cannot pass a CR to keep the government open while they fidget with another late budget, they should forego their pay as long as the government is shut down. And they should receive no back pay once the government reopens.

Make that the law, and we won't see many, if any, government shutdowns.
How did I alter your post? I highlighted your mistake and altered nothing. Thank you very little!

Wrong. Congressional pay is tied to The Ethics Reform Act of 1989 established guidelines for COLAs, pegging them to the Employment Cost Index. However, Congress's repeated rejections of pay increases highlight concerns about fiscal responsibility, especially during economic downturns.

That is simply not true as they don't get to keep that MRA money as income.

As already stated, that would require a constitutional amendment. Are you really reading the thread posts?
 
True the pandemic wasn't over when Trump left office, but the scary part was over.
1. We had vaccine shots in arms when Trump left office, Biden didn't do anything significant to save lives from Covid.
2. We had vaccines under production (Trump/Pence constructed the production facilities while testing was ongoing)
3. I was more impressed with Walmart than I was my health provider, Walmart setup the vaccination sites in my area
4. Do you agree that when the economy is shut down, that people need $2.2T of subsistence?
5. I'm not sure how that ended up? I think the final decision now is "no economy shutdowns or school closures"?
Not exactly true. A few select people got the vaccine. I did not get mine until June of 2021.
 
Not exactly true. A few select people got the vaccine. I did not get mine until June of 2021.
I just looked at my Covid card, 3/21, 5/21, and 11/21, so I got three shots of vaccine in 2021, because I'm old.

As I recall old people had priority for the 1st shots. There were 3 vendors, Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J.
 
I just looked at my Covid card, 3/21, 5/21, and 11/21, so I got three shots of vaccine in 2021, because I'm old.

As I recall old people had priority for the 1st shots. There were 3 vendors, Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J.
Trump left office 2 months before you got your first shot then! I took the J&J in June after they held it up for a couple of weeks because they were worried about people getting blood clots until they found no link. My wife got hers about 2 weeks before me because she is 3 years older.
 
4. Do you agree that when the economy is shut down, that people need $2.2T of subsistence?

Why was it OK for Trump to provide assistance but not Biden who inherited the pandemic at its peak?

You said: "Trump had the shutdown to deal with, Biden just pissed money away on nonsense. The shutdown was over."

The shutdown WAS NOT over when Trump left office, the pandemic was at it's peak.

WW
 
How long can the shutdown last? A month? Two months?

We have two entrenched/obstinate political parties, neither willing to compromise.

The military and other "essential workers" get screwed by having their paychecks held up, but their bills aren't.

Here is one possibility:
1. Sen. Thune re-writes the senate rules for shutdowns, that if a shutdown lasts longer than 14-days, a clean CR can be passed by a simple majority.

2. If that CR expires, appropriations bills can also be passed with a simple majority.

The United States of America should not be held hostage by either political party. The senate majority, with the VP breaking ties, should be able to pass a budget.
If you were a Dem in the Senate, knowing what you know about trump, Johnson, and Thune (liars), would you really believe what they say about entering in to honest negotiations after the CR is passed?
 
Why was it OK for Trump to provide assistance but not Biden who inherited the pandemic at its peak?
Trump shut the economy in March of 2020, by December it was opening up again.
You said: "Trump had the shutdown to deal with, Biden just pissed money away on nonsense. The shutdown was over."
Have you ever heard some of the ridiculous things Biden spent money on? Here's $420b of waste and fraud.

The shutdown WAS NOT over when Trump left office, the pandemic was at it's peak.
WW
The pandemic faded from January thru April, so Biden had Feb and March of a partial shutdown.
"When the unemployment rate finally dropped below 10 percent to 8.4 percent in August, Trump signed executive orders releasing new measures to help Americans who were still struggling economically."
The economy threatened to overheat in 2021.
 
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