A Third Party Would Be a Death Sentence for Conservatism in Government?

[Foxfyre]

What do you think? Would a third party initiative ensure increasing liberalism, socialism, and erosion of conservative principles and values in the USA?

I generally have my car radio tuned to the #1 radio station in my state to get news, weather, traffic reports etc. As it is a news/talk station, it features Rush Limbaugh and I caught a bit of his spiel while enroute to an appointment on Tuesday.

And I have been mulling over his thesis ever since.

He is currently emphasizing that while he 100% supports the empahsis of the Tea Parties and Tax Protests and similar grass roots efforts at reform, and while he realizes the GOP has lost its way and needs to pull itself back on track. . .

. . .while he acknowledges all that, he is 100% opposed to an effort to form a conservative third party.

He opposes assertions that there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats and he ticked off all the ways that the Republicans are different from the Democrats. If there was no essential difference between the parties, the massive healthcare bill and Cap and Trade would already be passed. We would openly have government funding of unrestricted abortion, ACORN would be running our census next year, and our military would be stripped to a token force just to name a few things. The GOP for all its self-serving ways neither promotes, tolerates, or overlooks Marxist or Mao-ist tinged politics, ideology, and socialism.

To split conservatives between the GOP and a third party would ensure that the Democratic Party will reign in perpetuity.

Far better he said, to demand of the GOP that it find and restore its conservative roots and values and reform itself and provide an alternative to the Marxist tinged track that we are currently on.

I am mulling all that over because there is at least a kernal of truth that should be addressed in all that I think. And I'm pondering whether putting my support behind a third party would actually be counterproductive to what we conservatives want from our government and our society.

So what do you think?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

A third party would end the other two only if tit were more in touch with the will of the People than they.

If that's the case, then let them die, for they serve only the oppressors and the corrupt.

 

[nodoginnafight]

A conservative party might bleed off about 30% of the Republican party. But it would also free the Republican party to a more moderate position that could bleed off a lot of blue dog democrats and independents.

It would not (imho) kill anyone else - it would just prompt a realignment. And I'm not against that.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

It would not (imho) kill anyone else - it would just prompt a realignment. And I'm not against that.

I meant let the parties die as entities ._.;

 

[slackjawed]

I think limbaugh's statements should be taken with a grain of salt because it appears in his best interest to help preserve the republican party. That is because his audience has a lot of republicans in it and he is an entertainer, has to have that audience.
If rush was the third party candidate he would be talking a different line.
It looks like a third party would have to be a little more liberal than rush to be successful.
If a third party was to be successful it would have to appeal to voters from both major parties as well as to independents. That doesn't sound a whole lot like rush. It does not benefit him to cheer for a third party, it hurts him. If it benefited him he would be the biggest cheerleader for a third party.

 

[nodoginnafight]

It would not (imho) kill anyone else - it would just prompt a realignment. And I'm not against that.

I meant let the parties die as entities ._.;

so did I - I don't think either party would be "killed"

 

[nodoginnafight]

The Green Party didn't kill the democratic party - I see no reason to think a Conservative Party would kill the Republican Party. Did the Reform Party kill the Republican Party?

Actually, imho, a conservative party that draws from the Tea Party folks would have an advantage of the Green and Reform party movements because they have more of a grass roots network to draw from.

The lack of success from the Green Party and the Reform Party and from so many other "third" party movements (imho) is that they skip over the local and state level and immediately start trying to be "players" on the national organization. There is no widespread "base" or foundation for the organization.

 

[amrchaos]

Death of conservativism in government?

HAHA--you jest do you not. There are no CONSERVATIVES IN GOVERNMENT!! Those guys that campaign on "conservative values" are moderates that sell their vote to the highest bidding socialists.

Fight as hard as you like--America will move left despite your efforts!!

 

[JWBooth]

If Conservatism in Government could survive what the Bush's and the Congressional Republicans did to it over the last twenty years, it can survive anything.

The real question should be, could the GOP survive a mass exodus of Conservatives? Would the NeoCons and Social Cons be enough to rebuild the party around?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

He is currently emphasizing that while he 100% supports the empahsis of the Tea Parties and Tax Protests and similar grass roots efforts at reform, and while he realizes the GOP has lost its way and needs to pull itself back on track. . .

. . .while he acknowledges all that, he is 100% opposed to an effort to form a conservative third party.

Advocating a third party would be the death or Limbaugh's program and the end of his revenue stream. Limbaugh makes a lot of money off of exploiting the partisan divide and gets a lot of free press and publicity from his support of the GOP. Limbaugh can not advocate for a third party, any more than Hannity, Coulter, or Beck, without slitting their own throats.

None of these guys actually has the courage to back up their convictions. Otherwise they'd have bailed on Frist/Delay/Bush in 2004 and pulled for a third party. Limbaugh, with his listenship and influence, probably could start a third party and make it viable if he had any actual courage.

 

[Big Fitz]

1860. The right set of circumstances and paradigm changes have to be in place for this to happen. Otherwise, you will get populist movements that will cause one party (usually the contrarian) to rule for an extended period.

The Republican party WAS a third party. The Whigs were going down, and the Democrats were split between Southern and Northern. Do we have such a situation shaping up here? Not yet, but that doesn't mean something out of the blue can't happen.

 

[nodoginnafight]

He is currently emphasizing that while he 100% supports the empahsis of the Tea Parties and Tax Protests and similar grass roots efforts at reform, and while he realizes the GOP has lost its way and needs to pull itself back on track. . .

. . .while he acknowledges all that, he is 100% opposed to an effort to form a conservative third party.

Advocating a third party would be the death or Limbaugh's program and the end of his revenue stream. Limbaugh makes a lot of money off of exploiting the partisan divide and gets a lot of free press and publicity from his support of the GOP. Limbaugh can not advocate for a third party, any more than Hannity, Coulter, or Beck, without slitting their own throats.

None of these guys actually has the courage to back up their convictions. Otherwise they'd have bailed on Frist/Delay/Bush in 2004 and pulled for a third party. Limbaugh, with his listenship and influence, probably could start a third party and make it viable if he had any actual courage.

I agree with most of what you say other than I think you vastly overestimate the influence of Rush. Yeah, he's managed to get some high profile mea culpas, but REAL influence??????

In 2008 he told folks they COULD NOT vote for McCain because McCain WAS NOT a "true" conservative.
McCain won - even in Republican-only voting.

Next he said Everyone had to vote - even crossover to do it - for Hillary Clinton. Hillary STILL lost.

I don't see him actually moving very many votes at all.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If Conservatism in Government could survive what the Bush's and the Congressional Republicans did to it over the last twenty years, it can survive anything.

The real question should be, could the GOP survive a mass exodus of Conservatives? Would the NeoCons and Social Cons be enough to rebuild the party around?

By neocons and social cons you mean folks who are fiscally conservative but socially more liberal? Do you mean moderate Republicans? Do you mean Blue Dog Democrats?

I'm sorry - I'm not up on the latest round of labels.

But if the Palin-Bachman types left the GOP, it would allow the Republicans to move to a more moderate position and pick up folks in the groups I listed above. My gut reaction is that just holding the existing GOP, would be enough for the GOP to outnumber the new "conservatives" and if they could pick off enough Blue Dogs, they'd be close to their current position.

 

[rightwinger]

A third party would draw away from the Republican base. With three candidates running, Conservatives would get 20%, Republicans 35% and Democrats 45% ensuring a Democratic victory

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I agree with most of what you say other than I think you vastly overestimate the influence of Rush. Yeah, he's managed to get some high profile mea culpas, but REAL influence??????

In 2008 he told folks they COULD NOT vote for McCain because McCain WAS NOT a "true" conservative.
McCain won - even in Republican-only voting.

Next he said Everyone had to vote - even crossover to do it - for Hillary Clinton. Hillary STILL lost.

I don't see him actually moving very many votes at all.

Outside his listenership, he's no one. But in his listenership, he could probably move 80% plus to a third party if he endorsed one.

That won't create a third party out of whole cloth, but it would help one get started.

 

[slackjawed]

A third party might hurt the republican party, or the democrats for that matter. We won't know for sure unless it happens.
Personally I think the American people would benefit. I say to hell with the political parties and conservative/liberal labels.
It is interesting to see those labeled liberals agreeing with those labeled conservatives on the subject of Obama's Afghan policy.

 

[Navy1960]

A lot would depend on the goals of this party, first one must understand that no matter how much they may detest the idea of those with opposing viewpoints , it takes more than just one viewpoint to put together enough people to win the White House. Simply put Progressives could not have obtained the White House or for that matter congress if they had not had the support of a large number of Independents and some moderate Republicans to do so. So if a pure conservative party were to split off on it's own, then it would need to draw from those groups as well in order to form a coalition to influence national policy and win national offices. The same would apply for for a party consisting completely of Progressives as it would be on the exact opposite side of the specturm but would have to accomplish the same goals. However having said all that a party that consisted of Moderates, and Independants would be a force in American politics and from a personal point of view, I would like to see a strong Independant Party that competes nationally with the other two if only to keep them in check finally.

 

[Foxfyre]

If Conservatism in Government could survive what the Bush's and the Congressional Republicans did to it over the last twenty years, it can survive anything.

The real question should be, could the GOP survive a mass exodus of Conservatives? Would the NeoCons and Social Cons be enough to rebuild the party around?

By neocons and social cons you mean folks who are fiscally conservative but socially more liberal? Do you mean moderate Republicans? Do you mean Blue Dog Democrats?

I'm sorry - I'm not up on the latest round of labels.

But if the Palin-Bachman types left the GOP, it would allow the Republicans to move to a more moderate position and pick up folks in the groups I listed above. My gut reaction is that just holding the existing GOP, would be enough for the GOP to outnumber the new "conservatives" and if they could pick off enough Blue Dogs, they'd be close to their current position.

In my opinion, it was the GOP moving to a 'more moderate position' that lost them elections in 2006 and 2008. When they abandoned almost all conservative principles fiscally and started behaving like Democrats, their base left them. Fiscal conservatism/responsibility is what the Tea Partiers and Tax Protest movements have been mostly demonstrating for now though I have no doubt conservative social values are important too.

I strongly disagree with others that Rush would lose his audience if the GOP collapsed however. He, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, et al appeal mostly to conservatives whether or not they label themselves Republican and no matter how they describe themselves. None of them are advocates for the Republican party per se, and all have been highly critical of many Republicans and actions of the Republican Party when warranted.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

you keep talking about conserving the way things are.... the way things are sucks

 

[Foxfyre]

you keep talking about conserving the way things are.... the way things are sucks

If that was addressed to me, you would be very wrong about what I am talking about. The Modern American Conservative closely resembles the Classical Liberals of the previous century. They are progressive in that they do want to fix what is broken, change what needs to be changed, and promote new, innovative, and profitable ways to further civilization, but they also appreciate the solid and sensible values that keep us human and promote an aesthetically pleasing and humane way of life.

Modern Liberalism seeks to hand government power over every aspect of our existence and looks to government as the solution for all of humankind's ills. The modern conservative, as much as the classical liberal, looks to humankind to solve its own problems and looks to government to enact and enforce laws that discourage us from treading on each other's unalienable and legal rights and otherwise leave it to us to form the society we wish to live in. And the Democrats have been mostly consistently looking to further modern liberalism in the last several decades.

This is why I am concerned that if the conservatives do not stick together and the Democrats do, we will not in our lifetime see restored those good conservative values and principles that made this country great.