A successful shift in legal tactics to class action suits has the desired result.

[jc456]

Back in the founders time? There were no legal or illegal immigrants. There were foreign immigrants, no oath or law made them illegal vs legal, there were no Visas?

Except there were

 

[Mac1958]

Personally, I'm totally OK with that particular application, if the courts end-up leaning on that.

I'd assume that this will be one of the messier court processes. But given the trajectory of this administration, I don't know what opponents can do to physically stop them from doing anything. This is one they the administration is going to push as far and as fast as they can.

 

[rightwinger]

AGAIN, the whole world is full of PERSONS.
The whole world is NOT guaranteed RIGHTS in the United States of America.
GTFOH

Give an example where an illegal migrant is not a PERSON

 

[Marener]

Legal migrants take an oath.

When exactly?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Give an example where an illegal migrant is not a PERSON

**** YOU and your SEMANTICS.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Back in the founders time? There were no legal or illegal immigrants. There were foreign immigrants, no oath or law made them illegal vs legal, there were no Visas?

Yes, which was fine at that time.

Why?

Because there was no welfare system for them to immediately become permanently dependent on. If some bohunk goober had gotten off the boat with five kids and a pregnant wife and started looking for a government-sponsored interpretter to help him apply for taxpayer-funded housing, food, free phone, and help finding work, but only if he wanted to work, while his wife looked for the nearest emergency room in which to give birth to a new American Citezen, they would have been laughed at.

So, in the founders' time, the people who immigrated came here to work. Many of them even volunteered to be endentured (almost like being enslaved) for years just to pay for their trip.

Those are not the immigrants that Biden let swarm over our border.

 

[rightwinger]

**** YOU and your SEMANTICS.

DAMN WORDS!

 

[jc456]

When exactly?

when they pass their citizen requirements.

 

[Kondor3]

I'd assume that this will be one of the messier court processes. But given the trajectory of this administration, I don't know what opponents can do to physically stop them from doing anything. This is one they the administration is going to push as far and as fast as they can.

Yeah... I know... I'm not comfortable with their forcible approach to a great many things and I'm worried about the overall effect of allowing that to continue relatively un-checked, but, at the same time...

The repelling of this Invasion of 20,000,000 Illegal Aliens is NOT going to be accomplished by "playing nice" and "coloring within the lines": all the time... an actual resolution (not reform, that comes later) is going to require a harsh attitude and harsh tactics...

In that respect, anyway, the current Administration seems to be on the right track, but it remains to be seen whether they have the stomach to make-good on their (oftentimes bull$hit) promises...

 

[jc456]

Yes, which was fine at that time.

Why?

Because there was no welfare system for them to immediately become permanently dependent on. If some bohunk goober had gotten off the boat with five kids and a pregnant wife and started looking for a government-sponsored interpretter to help him apply for taxpayer-funded housing, food, free phone, and help finding work, but only if he wanted to work, while his wife looked for the nearest emergency room in which to give birth to a new American Citezen, they would have been laughed at.

So, in the founders' time, the people who immigrated came here to work. Many of them even volunteered to be endentured (almost like being enslaved) for years just to pay for their trip.

Those are not the immigrants that Biden let swarm over our border.

no one can tell me that freeloaders were rewarded in that timeframe and in fact, most likely escorted out of the country,.

 

[berg80]

Another dishonest and emotional interpretation. They are persons, but they are also aliens. One does not disqualify the other from being true.

The judge, an appointee of President George W. Bush, issued a written order formalizing the ruling on Thursday morning. He also paused his order for seven days, allowing time for an appeal.

The lawsuit, brought by the A.C.L.U., was filed hours after the Supreme Court’s ruling last month limiting the ability of lower court judges to issue nationwide injunctions. The case tested the new landscape after the Supreme Court decision and made use of what appeared to be the only remaining practical and efficient way for district court judges to freeze the implementation of policies they found unlawful.

Class actions, which involve a population of similarly situated people, were seen as the workaround. Before the Supreme Court’s decision, nationwide or “universal" injunctions were the main tool judges could use to halt executive branch policies.

Their legal status does not preclude them from the certification of the harmed class.

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah... I know... I'm not comfortable with their forcible approach to a great many things and I'm worried about the overall effect of allowing that to continue relatively un-checked, but, at the same time...

The repelling of this Invasion of 20,000,000 Illegal Aliens is NOT going to be accomplished by "playing nice" and "coloring within the lines": all the time... an actual resolution (not reform, that comes later) is going to require a harsh attitude and harsh tactics...

In that respect, anyway, the current Administration seems to be on the right track, but it remains to be seen whether they have the stomach to make-good on their (oftentimes bull$hit) promises...

It's a risky method. There are other ways to do things, and I say in my sig "I'm not ideological. My disagreement may not be about what you're trying to accomplish. It may just be about the way you're trying to accomplish it."

We've talked many times in here about first doing things like holding employers far more accountable, fixing/upgrading the temporary visa laws, etc... I've posted a plan about using capitalism to decrease the motivation for them to come here in the first place.

I'm seeing too much celebration of cruelty and inhumanity across the board. But I know maybe I'm in the minority. Maybe we just don't care about that any more as a country.

 

[Care4all]

There is Transitory Jurisdiction and there is Sovereign Jurisdiction.

While you or I are in Mexico, Mexico has a Transitory Jurisdiction over us, but the US has Sovereign Jurisdiction.

It is the NATURE of that Jurisdiction that tells the tale.

While Illegal Aliens are on US soil we have Transitory Jurisdiction over them for purposes of law enforcement.

But their country-of-origin still has Sovereign Jurisdiction over them.

Between the original intent of the 14th being to ensure that the children of slaves automatically became US citizens, and the abuse of the 14th as a Loophole for Birth Tourism and Birth Trespassing, and the dual nature of Jurisdiction, and given the size of the Invasion...

It will be convenient for the courts to eventually land on the side of caution and stick to the Original Intent of the 14th as a limitation.

And, while that may very well strike you as a "stretch"...

It would merely be using one Loophole (the nature of the jurisdiction) as an excuse and convenience to close ANOTHER Loophole.

Personally, I'm totally OK with that particular application, if the courts end-up leaning on that.

Before the 14th, all foreigners, aliens who bore children here, bore US Citizens....with just a handful of exceptions, diplomats and families, enemies, Indians run by tribal rule, and slaves....

The only change the 14th made was for slaves....to include them in what everyone else were already covered by the constitutional protections for 'all persons'....

Basically, if you were a white foreigner who made it here, and delivered a child once here, your child was a natural born citizen and subject to our jurisdiction, protection.

It was a calling card, to bring more immigrants here and eventually expand as our own Nation.

Times were different back then, than now....I don't think the constitutional amendment of the 14th accounted for....

I think the 14th needs an amendment to change it.

 

[Care4all]

Except there were

Who?

 

[jc456]

Who?

post 130

 

[jc456]

I'm seeing too much celebration of cruelty and inhumanity across the board. But I know maybe I'm in the minority. Maybe we just don't care about that any more as a country.

there's a lot there to unpack. First off, one has to agree the country is a sovereign one and we have borders and as such have certain rights associated with that. Laws are on the books. There's no need for any new laws, stop violating the existing ones by demofks.

Can you explain why we have borders?

 

[Mac1958]

Can you explain why we have borders?

My goodness, you're dense. What a stupid question to ask me.

I remain amazed at how little you people know my politics and positions. It has to be a fuckin' miracle.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm seeing too much celebration of cruelty and inhumanity across the board. But I know maybe I'm in the minority. Maybe we just don't care about that any more as a country.

We used to be “The Good Guys”
A nation that prioritizes humane treatment of people in our jurisdiction

Under Trump

We send in armored vehicles and heavily armed ICE agents who storm public spaces and grab people off the streets.

We grab people with little evidence and no Due Process and send them to nations where they have no connection in sub human conditions

We create holding cells in extreme conditions

We break up families

All to round up people whose only crime is t working hard to support their families

 

[BackAgain]

None of our foreign immigrant ancestors had to sign an oath for our ancestors to bear citizens when born here.

If they were legal immigrants, then they almost certainly did take an oath.

 

[BackAgain]

Back in the founders time? There were no legal or illegal immigrants. There were foreign immigrants, no oath or law made them illegal vs legal, there were no Visas?

Well we aren’t talking about legal immigration prior to the requirements which came later.