A successful shift in legal tactics to class action suits has the desired result.

[TemplarKormac]

They qualify as “persons”

Another dishonest and emotional interpretation. They are persons, but they are also aliens. One does not disqualify the other from being true.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Another dishonest and emotional interpretation. They are persons, but they are also aliens. One does not disqualify the other from being true.

They are aliens true.

But they are not foreigners or aliens that are part of a diplomatic mission which is the rest of the quote.

WW

 

[SeaMajor7]

They qualify as “persons”

So does EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.
There HAS to be a distinction between who is a CITIZEN and who is NOT.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They are aliens true.

But they are not foreigners or aliens that are part of a diplomatic mission which is the rest of the quote.

WW

You are intentionally misapplying what he said.

 

[WorldWatcher]

So does EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.
There HAS to be a distinction between who is a CITIZEN and who is NOT.

There is.

Just read the 14th, the distinction is born here and not part of a diplomatic mission.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

You are intentionally misapplying what he said.

No I’m not. I’m applying what he said in full and not parsing out a single word out of context.

WW

 

[Care4all]

You didn't read the whole paragraph, then. And you quoted out of context.

"...the Citizenship Clause "will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." "

Are the wife and children of foreign diplomats, foreigners, aliens? Yes.

They too, along with their father and husband diplomat, are foreign aliens excluded from being under our jurisdiction, thus their children born are not given birthright citizenship. This was existing law, before the 14th was ever created....that we as a Nation practiced on Diplomatic Immunity.

We also practiced Jus Soli prior to the 14th, for all persons... exempting diplomats and family, and native Americans because they too, under treaty, were under their own Native Tribal rule, on their reservations and not under our jurisdiction.

The 14th simply included and recognized slaves as being included as full persons in jus soli as everyone else, all foreigners here, were already included in being a person under our jurisdiction, whose child was born a citizen on our soil, regardless of their own foreigner status of not being a citizen. No one was excluded as a person, no one! Outside of less than a handful of exceptions...enemies we are warring with, foreign diplomats and family, and Native Americans....and of course, African slaves....

As said, prior to the 14th, all foreigners having children on our soil, had an American born child that was a natural born citizen....with the same exceptions as reiterated in the 14th.

The A/I arguments seems very weak...

It does perhaps make a case for amending the constitution....imo.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are the wife and children of foreign diplomats, foreigners, aliens? Yes.

Yes, and there are different types of aliens. You and WW don't seem to grasp that.

Foreigners are aliens. Wives and children of diplomats and ambassadors are both aliens and foreigners.

I don't get what is so hard to understand about it.

 

[BackAgain]

In their universe, MAGA is allowed to add new interpretations and stipulations as needed.

And in your universe, you morons do exactly that. For example, here’s one that throws you:

“Shall not be infringed.”

 

[SweetTea]

Senator Jacob Howard’s Statement: Senator Howard, a primary drafter, stated that the Citizenship Clause “will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”

That includes all persons born here whose parents are not part of recognized diplomatic missions.

WW

“will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens,..."

You skipped over the first part of the statement. The terms foreigners and aliens were not meant as qualifiers for the families of ambassadors.

The quote should be interpreted as follows. Commas are used to separate items in a list, up to the last item. Would you like apples, oranges or bananas. This can be interpreted as Would you like apples or oranges or bananas. In this case, there are 4 distinct exclusions. Foreigners, aliens, [persons] who belong to the families of ambassadors and foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States.

"will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners OR aliens OR who belong to the families of ambassadors...."

Do you really believe they would have given birthright citizenship to those whose parent's broke laws to enter our country? If their intent was to be that permissive, they would not have included any qualifiers at all.

 

[BackAgain]

Are the wife and children of foreign diplomats, foreigners, aliens? Yes.

They too, along with their father and husband diplomat, are foreign aliens excluded from being under our jurisdiction, thus their children born are not given birthright citizenship. This was existing law, before the 14th was ever created....that we as a Nation practiced on Diplomatic Immunity.

We also practiced Jus Soli prior to the 14th, for all persons... exempting diplomats and family, and native Americans because they too, under treaty, were under their own Native Tribal rule, on their reservations and not under our jurisdiction.

The 14th simply included and recognized slaves as being included as full persons in jus soli as everyone else, all foreigners here, were already included in being a person under our jurisdiction, whose child was born a citizen on our soil, regardless of their own foreigner status of not being a citizen. No one was excluded as a person, no one! Outside of less than a handful of exceptions...enemies we are warring with, foreign diplomats and family, and Native Americans....and of course, African slaves....

As said, prior to the 14th, all foreigners having children on our soil, had an American born child that was a natural born citizen....with the same exceptions as reiterated in the 14th.

The A/I arguments seems very weak...

It does perhaps make a case for amending the constitution....imo.

Some rights are reserved for citizens. Voting is the most obvious one.

And when our law establishes who has standing to sue and speaks of “Citizens,” obviously they were not granting standing to use our courts to aliens (unless they elsewhere grant such rights).

If an illegal alien is arrested, he or she gets the same due process at a criminal trial as a citizens because the Constitution there refers to “persons.”

 

[Nostra]

FYI:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There’s the problem for Dimwingers.

 

[Billiejeens]

In other words leftards are learning what they can get away with.

Leftard lawfare at its most insidious.

Yeah

The SCOTUS did carve out an exception.
Not sure if this is what they meant -
We should find out.

 

[Billiejeens]

Ahhhhh... and there's the rub...

The words would be so clear without that clause.
Why did they add that clause?

 

[Independent thinker]

A federal judge on Thursday blocked the Trump administration from enforcing a contentious executive order ending birthright citizenship after certifying a lawsuit as a class action, effectively the only way he could impose such a far-reaching limit after a Supreme Court ruling last month.

Ruling from the bench, Judge Joseph N. Laplante of the U.S. District Court for the District of New Hampshire said his decision applied nationwide to babies who would have been subject to the executive order, which included the children of undocumented parents and those born to academics in the United States on student visas, on or after Feb. 20.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/07/10/us/trump-news

How great would it be for the country if we can get a ruling on the EO's constitutionality? I haven't seen any cogent arguments made to suggest a prez can alter the Constitution by executive fiat.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Constitution that illegals are entitled to birthright citizenship.

 

[rightwinger]

So does EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.
There HAS to be a distinction between who is a CITIZEN and who is NOT.

Now you get it
“Persons” applies to anyone born here regardless of their parents status
The distinction is that anyone born here is a citizen

 

[SeaMajor7]

Now you get it
“Persons” applies to anyone born here regardless of their parents status
The distinction is that anyone born here is a citizen

...to freed former slaves in the 19th century, yes.
Not applicable to pregnant ILLEGAL ALIENS.
No jodas.

 

[Mac1958]

And in your universe, you morons do exactly that. For example, here’s one that throws you:

“Shall not be infringed.”

Another Trumpster, proudly demonstrating that he doesn't know my positions on the issues.

Ignorance certainly is bliss for you people. Although I definitely don't think you're blissful.

 

[BackAgain]

Another Trumpster who doesn't know my positions on the issues.

Ignorance certainly is bliss for you people. Although I don't think you're blissful.

Oh please. Nailed you and most of the idiots in your cult.

You righteously proclaim the “constitution” when it suits you. Then you ignore what it says and means when it suits you.

You’re a fraud and a simpleton.

Don’t bother trying to deny it. We all see it.

 

[Mac1958]

Oh lease. Nailed you and most of the idiots in your cult.

You righteously proclaim the “constitution” when it suits you. Then you ignore what it says and means when it suits you.

You’re a fraud and a simpleton.

Don’t bother trying to deny it. We all see it.

Okie dokie!