A sobering question regarding US bombing Iran nuke program

[Rigby5]

Everything will be coordinated with the Israelis. The bombs will be used, if at all, as demolition devices after the area has been secured and neutralized.

Nothing has been "secured" or "neutralized".
Iran's enrichment facilities are untouched and will remain that way.

 

[Rigby5]

Very good questions as to what happens if we bombed Fordow.
1. Would the Fordow bombing be successful, or not?
2. Would Iran attack US bases?
3. What happens if we don't bomb Fordow?
4. We know what a "regime change" war would look like, a total mess.
5. We know that "nation building" is always a mess.
6. Is taking out Iranian leaders until we get one we can live with the best option?
7. We can't leave the 86-year old Ayatollah in power. He wants a nuke and he hates the US.

Trump probably gets input from the Saudis and Qataris and Kuwaitis and they have skin in the game if Iran gets a nuke. What do they recommend?
Would NATO back our regime change play? I agree that we need to bring US troops out of danger until the dust settles.
Would the UN (Russia and China) call regime change illegal? (Yes)

All Iranians hate the US due to our evil subversion of their democracy in 1953.
It was totally illegal and immoral, just so that we could steal their oil.
No one is ever going to forget that.

 

[Rigby5]

If I am in Iran, I don't like being told what I can and cannot have. Especially when others have it.

But that is the nature of living in a global community.

People are not going to respect what I don't like when my leaders are whack-jobs

The Iran leaders have been far more honest and fair than US leaders who deliberately lied about Iraqi WMD in order to get Iraq's oil.

 

[Rigby5]

Which is kinda their goal. 72 virgins and all that.

Wrong.
Iran has never shown suicidal tendencies, and have attacked no one.
It is the US who repeatedly attacked them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

They had plenty of warning from Trump

And our satellites watched everything that came out of those tunnels and where it went. If the Iranians moved anything, the Israeli strikes destroyed it.

 

[Rigby5]

If the US invades a country its to remove a dictator and give the people their country back, unlike Russia.
Since 1990, Russia has invaded several countries, including Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova. Notable conflicts include the invasions of Ukraine in 2014 and 2022, the support of separatists in Georgia's Abkhazia and South Ossetia since 2008, and the occupation of Transnistria in Moldova since 1992. True, NATO is all about being armed, to keep Russia from invading.

Not coercion, self-preservation. They ask to join NATO for collective defense.

Plain lie. No one attacked DPR& LPR. They are/were part of Ukraine, not Russia.

Russia wants a "Final Solution" for "Ukrainians". NATO doesn't roll back. Keep LPR & DPR and Crimea, but Ukraine wants no part of Russia's dictatorship.

There are no Nazis, just Ukrainians fighting for their freedom from Russia. Helping Ukraine repel Russia's illegal invasion and violates the UN Charter

UN chief tells President Putin Russian invasion violates UN Charter

UN Secretary-General António Guterres reiterated in a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday that his country’s on-going invasion of Ukraine violates the United Nations Charter and international law.

news.un.org

Ukraine is independent since 1991, and is a member of the UN. Russia invaded and is occupying east Ukraine. NATO is not in Ukraine.

Trump said last week 7,000 died fighting in Ukraine. Those deaths are on Putin.

Wrong.
Not only is the Ukraine historically always a part of Russia until the illegal theft by the Treaty of Versailles, but Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia.

Russia invaded no one, ever.
But NATO are the well established colonial imperialists who invaded and took over hundreds of countries.

NATO illegally bribed the 2014 Maidan coup in the Ukraine, in order to put first strike nukes on Russia's border.
Since Russia had some of its retaliation nukes in the Ukraine, the Ukraine is inside of Russia's defense grid.
So then Russia can never allow a government of the Ukraine to want to join an alliance hostile to Russia.

The US obviously caused the 2014 Maidan Coup, so all the deaths are the fault of the US, not Russia.

 

[Rigby5]

And our satellites watched everything that came out of those tunnels and where it went. If the Iranians moved anything, the Israeli strikes destroyed it.

Wrong.
Satellites orbit and cannot continuously watch.
Nor can satellites differentiate trucks in traffic.

If Israeli strike hit any enriched uranium, we would know because of the death toll and radiation down wind.
So that means there was absolutely no success by Israel or the US in these attacks.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
Not only is the Ukraine historically always a part of Russia until the illegal theft by the Treaty of Versailles, but Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia.

Russia invaded no one, ever.
But NATO are the well established colonial imperialists who invaded and took over hundreds of countries.

NATO illegally bribed the 2014 Maidan coup in the Ukraine, in order to put first strike nukes on Russia's border.
Since Russia had some of its retaliation nukes in the Ukraine, the Ukraine is inside of Russia's defense grid.
So then Russia can never allow a government of the Ukraine to want to join an alliance hostile to Russia.

The US obviously caused the 2014 Maidan Coup, so all the deaths are the fault of the US, not Russia.

WRONG

Ukraine is an independant natiion

Russia has invaded many nations

NATO is not imperialist\

No one tried or wanted to put nukes in Ukraine

The US did not cause any coup there

 

[Mac-7]

First of all, it is not only illegal to bomb Iran's nuke sites, but immoral since the 1953 US takeover of Iran and the 2003 invasion of Iraq on WMD lies, prove all countries have a right to develop nuclear deterrents.

Second is that the bunker buster attack could not possibly have succeeded, since Iran knew exactly what our bunker buster capabilities were and simply exceeded them.
In fact, by tunneling sideways, their facilities could have been anywhere, and impossible to hit.

And nuclear reactors have nothing to do with enriching uranium ore enough to make efficient bombs.
They already easily can do that, and the main enrichment device is a tiny centrifuge, not a huge reactor.
{...
Uranium enrichment methods include gas centrifugation, gaseous diffusion, and laser isotope separation, each with distinct processes and applications in nuclear energy and weapons.
...}

Your confidence in knowing everything about everything is exceeded only by your ignorance of history

Yes, the US and Great Britain assisted the Shah in overthrowing the duly elected prime minister of Iran to reestablish the monarchy

Thst prevented the quasi communist PM from nationalizing the oil fields which were owned by the Brits, and presenting Iran to the Soviet Union as a gift

Was it dirty pool?

Perhaps

But the shah was far more enlightened and progressive than Stalin, or the 14th Century throwbacks running Iran today

 

[kyzr]

All Iranians hate the US due to our evil subversion of their democracy in 1953.
It was totally illegal and immoral, just so that we could steal their oil.
No one is ever going to forget that.

No one remembers 1953. The Shah Pahlavi was removed in 1979 dumbass.
The 1953 event in Iran is known as the coup d'état that overthrew Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, not a revolution. It was orchestrated by the United States and the United Kingdom to restore the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, to power after Mosaddegh nationalized the oil industry, which threatened Western interests.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi | Biography, History, & White Revolution | Britannica

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, shah of Iran (1941–79). A power struggle between him and Mohammad Mosaddegh led to the latter’s ouster in 1953, with help from the United States and the United Kingdom. The shah’s White Revolution fostered development but harmed many Iranians. He was ousted in the...

www.britannica.com

 

[kyzr]

Wrong. Not only is the Ukraine historically always a part of Russia until the illegal theft by the Treaty of Versailles, but Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia. Russia invaded no one, ever. But NATO are the well established colonial imperialists who invaded and took over hundreds of countries.

List the hundreds of countries NATO invaded and took over.

NATO illegally bribed the 2014 Maidan coup in the Ukraine, in order to put first strike nukes on Russia's border.
Since Russia had some of its retaliation nukes in the Ukraine, the Ukraine is inside of Russia's defense grid.
So then Russia can never allow a government of the Ukraine to want to join an alliance hostile to Russia.

NATO doesn't do first strikes.
Ukraine is an independent country and a member of the UN since 1991.
Russia has no right to invade Ukraine, it is a war of aggression that is doomed to fail, militarily or economically.

The US obviously caused the 2014 Maidan Coup, so all the deaths are the fault of the US, not Russia.

There is no amount of money that could get people to sacrifice their lives the way the Maidan coup did.
Only freedom from Russia can give people that much determination.

 

[kyzr]

Ok. That is the very reason why Iran should be armed, too. To prevent his neighbours - Russia, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, America, Europe, China, whoever else, from invading and taking their wealth.

Iran will never get a nuke. I don't see anyone dumb enough to sell them one either.

Let's ask Ukrainians themselves after elimination of the occupation Kievan regime, what they actually prefer - to live in Russia, or to die for America.

Looks like they all prefer to die for America.

If you think, that independence means the right to kill Russians - think one more time.

Russians are dying every day in the stupid 3-year war, 7,000 last week.

Millions (may be hundreds of millions) will die soon. And all those deaths will be on you.

If WW3 happens we know Russia will launch first.

 

[the watcher]

Israel and Iran are 2 fanatical death cults led by madmen and rule by terror. Israel has it's Samson Option. which is a final dead man's switch and threatens everyone. I would guess Iran yas something similar, maybe a Sword of Allah type of thing with sleeper cells (don't think for a minute Israel doesn't) in place for retribution. I think the US strange involvement here is hoping to gather more power after the conflagration is over, but it might not go the way they would want it to. The US had a chance for a peace after the USSR broke up with our desired regime change, but as you can guess, that is not what we seek. This is a long-lived type of corruption and not easily addressed, especially with endless state sponsored wars. New Leak Reveals Israel’s ‘Samson Option’ Includes American Cities on Nuclear Target List - VT Foreign Policy

 

[Zavulon]

Iran will never get a nuke. I don't see anyone dumb enough to sell them one either.

Now it depends only on Iranians themselves. If they want the bomb - Russia, China, North Korea and, may be, Pakistan are ready to sell them. Or they can make the bomb by themselves .

Looks like they all prefer to die for America.

Of course not. Majority just don't have any choice, some do it for money.

Russians are dying every day in the stupid 3-year war, 7,000 last week.

It is definitely lesser evil.

If WW3 happens we know Russia will launch first.

May be. But you want Ukraine exactly to have the good position to make the first strike.

 

[kyzr]

Now it depends only on Iranians themselves. If they want the bomb - Russia, China, North Korea and, may be, Pakistan are ready to sell them. Or they can make the bomb by themselves .

Iran had more than enough time to develop a bomb, they also had enough more than enough time to buy them.
The world seems safer when Iran doesn't have one.

Of course not. Majority just don't have any choice, some do it for money.

Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their country, many Russians are leaving to avoid dying for Putin. That's why Putin is bringing in North Koreans and Chinese.

It is definitely lesser evil.

Dying for Putin is dumb. Putin not ending the war is dumb. Celebrating a win, getting Crimea, DPR & LPR and ending the war is the best idea.

May be. But you want Ukraine exactly to have the good position to make the first strike.

Ukraine is only one of many NATO countries that border Russia. Ukraine is not a significant "live or die" lynch-pin for NATO or Russia. Since I lived thru the Cuban Missile Crisis I can appreciate the rationale' Russia is enforcing. I can also appreciate the difference between Russia trying to capture Ukraine, and the US taking Cuba or Panama or Greenland. Your "sphere of influence" needs to be enforceable, and not just by bluster or empty threats.

Nuclear Disarmament Turkey

Information and analysis of proposals and progress of nuclear disarmament in Turkey

www.nti.org

Nuclear Disarmament Turkey​

Why couldn't all of the eastern NATO countries disarm like Turkey? I don't see Turkey as a threat to Russia, neither are the other border countries. Why is Ukraine a threat, but Turkey and Finland, and Poland, etc. are not?

 

[AZrailwhale]

List the hundreds of countries NATO invaded and took over.

NATO doesn't do first strikes.
Ukraine is an independent country and a member of the UN since 1991.
Russia has no right to invade Ukraine, it is a war of aggression that is doomed to fail, militarily or economically.

There is no amount of money that could get people to sacrifice their lives the way the Maidan coup did.
Only freedom from Russia can give people that much determination.

You got one thing wrong. Ukraine is a founding nation of the UN. It joined when the UN was formed in 1945.

 

[Mac-7]

The “entire world’ does not agree with the jingoistic assertions of American right wing politicians.

The “entire world” is horrified by the idea that the fool in the White House might be dumb enough to allow himself to be drawn into a shooting war with Iran.

As for the loud, jingoistic right wing noise, the “entire world” has seen this act before.

BTW, there is no sign of political instability inside Iran. There are no protests. No one is calling for regime change (other than parochial American right wingers, and Netanyahu)

If you do not know about anti government protests in Iran then maybe you dont want to know

“No Light, No Water, No Future”: A Look at Popular Protests in Iran - NCRI

In recent years, Iran has witnessed a relentless surge of protests across cities, towns, and rural regions, sparked by the basic demands for water,

www.ncr-iran.org

 

[Zavulon]

Iran had more than enough time to develop a bomb, they also had enough more than enough time to buy them.
The world seems safer when Iran doesn't have one.

The world was safer before two nuclear states attacked a non-nuclear state, in attempt to stop it's civilian nuclear program, and, therefore, killed nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Now, the world made one more step to the nuclear proliferation and a nuclear war.

Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their country, many Russians are leaving to avoid dying for Putin. That's why Putin is bringing in North Koreans and Chinese.

In Russia borders are open. "Love it or leave it". Ukrainian borders are closed - they can't leave it even if they want. And yes, if Ukrainians want to die for American money or their phone country - we can't help it. We can only minimise our own losses and kill them before they kill somebody else.

Dying for Putin is dumb.

I doubt that anybody is going to die for Putin.

Putin not ending the war is dumb.

Obviously no. He try to stop the war without achieving acceptable result - and he is a deadman.

Celebrating a win, getting Crimea, DPR & LPR and ending the war is the best idea.

And to leave twenty million of Russians in the former Ukraine? Leave NATO rearming against us? No way, thank you very much.
Equal rights and equal safety, that is what we need and what we'll get. One way, or another.

Ukraine is only one of many NATO countries that border Russia.

Yep. But the first things first.

Ukraine is not a significant "live or die" lynch-pin for NATO or Russia.

It is significant. What is even more important, that makes it that urgent - there are a lot of Russians under NATO occupation, who have to be liberated.

Since I lived thru the Cuban Missile Crisis I can appreciate the rationale' Russia is enforcing. I can also appreciate the difference between Russia trying to capture Ukraine, and the US taking Cuba or Panama or Greenland. Your "sphere of influence" needs to be enforceable, and not just by bluster or empty threats.

If you think that our threats are empty - think one more time.

View attachment 1129584

Nuclear Disarmament Turkey

Information and analysis of proposals and progress of nuclear disarmament in Turkey

www.nti.org

Nuclear Disarmament Turkey​

Why couldn't all of the eastern NATO countries disarm like Turkey? I don't see Turkey as a threat to Russia, neither are the other border countries. Why is Ukraine a threat, but Turkey and Finland, and Poland, etc. are not?

Of course, both Finland and Poland are threats, too. But, I hope, after finishing SMO with hanging up fifty thousand most Russophobic Banderovci by the road from Kiev to Lvov (one gallow per every hundred meters), our pretty humble and reasonable demands about demilitarization of the Eastern Europe will be meet with lesser scepticism.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I support using US military bombing Iran nuke site

But what if the bunker buster bomb fails to dtop Iran from building atomic warheads and achieving nuclear capability?

Even if we destroy their nuclear reactor are they far enough along already to assemble one or more nuclear warheads?

/----/ "but what if...."
Why worry about something that didn't happen?

Ayatollah Proudly Announces Iran Has Destroyed 14 Bunker Buster Bombs With Its Nuclear Facilities

 

[Mac-7]

/----/ "but what if...."
Why worry about something that didn't happen?
View attachment 1129864
Ayatollah Proudly Announces Iran Has Destroyed 14 Bunker Buster Bombs With Its Nuclear Facilities

My position is that the war should continue till the Islamic Republic is defeated and the mullahs are out of power