A question for Christians

[bullwinkle]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

Hey, Tommy! What a thought-inducing post. I guess most of humanity is guilty of the top 3. The NT says that anyone who divorces and remarries is a adulterer. And I suspect we have all felt murder in our hearts a few times too. And committed thievery too even if by accident, like keeping a pen belonging to a business.

But gays are a minority..not like 'us', and we paint them as perverted. I'm thinking of an old KJ Bible I once had that had paintings of all the apostles inserted in the center. It showed 11 of them all sweet and gentle and looking heavenward. But the picture of Judas showed a wild haired, snarly man...not like the rest at all...and giving the impression that he is not like 'us' either. He stood out like an onion in a petunia patch. Yet he preached, he healed, he was a faithful apostle too. And when I think of his gripes, his lack of understanding of the mission...well maybe he was more like 'us' that the rest of the near-perfect band. He complained of liberal use of money and not attacking earthly Rome. Sometimes I think he would fit right in most of our churches today.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

Oh come on there are plenty of threads about Obama and Hillary

They can have a cake.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

/----/ They can buy all the cakes and cookies they want, but they demanded the baker take part in their perversion wedding. It is akin to forcing you libtards to join the NRA and buy a handgun.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

Do you know what I've never seen? I'll tell you. I've never seen a discussion criticizing that the Civil Rights Act destroyed property rights when getting rid of the Jim Crow laws.

Do you know why we haven't seen it? I'll tell you why. It's because people like you with their heads crammed so far up their butts, and who can't function beyond troll capacity, aren't capable of thinking that deeply.

Take that recent Supreme Court ruling, for example. The right person won in the end, but the Supreme court didnlt rule on the right premise. They should have framed their ruling by way of the property rights aspect.

But, they didn't. All they really did was demonstatrate the bias nature of how the Supreme Court functions. They demonstrated how bias they are in deciding the terms for reviewing any given case. They got it right, but for completely the wrong reason .The ruling came as a consequence of what they wanted the terms of controversy to be rather than what the actual constitutional terms of controversy in deciding the case should actually have been.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

K? Did you understand what I just said to you up there? The most common means of late is a biased Supreme Court which rules based on what it believes are the terms of controversy based on the feels of its members, rather than what the actual terms should be from a constitutional perspective. As I said, the store owner got lucky this time, the court ruled correctly, but, again, for the wrong reasons. The court took the constitutional argument completely out of terms of the the case.

 

[hobelim]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

lol....Its always about Christians not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding.


I'm wondering if these same people would refuse to eat cakes made by a gay baker. How would they even know if a gay baker slipped by and made the cake at their own wedding? Where is the outrage? Is eating a cake made by a gay baker less terrible than making a cake for a gay wedding?

I demand an investigation!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There are other cases involving stuff like pension rights and adoption if they work better for you.

 

[buttercup]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

I don't see any of those other categories forming groups that not only say there's nothing wrong with those things, but actually promoting and celebrating them. If there were, then of course Christians would be opposing that, but very few people out there are claiming that those things are right. Simple as that, really.

 

[DGS49]

We are all sinners, including the Christian bakers. Certainly, they could not refuse decorating cakes for sinners, or they would not be decorating any cakes.

Nor would they refuse to decorate, say, a birthday cake for a gay person - assuming they knew that the person was gay.

Gay marriage is another proposition altogether.

Gay marriage is an affirmation, not only of sinful behavior, but at the same time it is a declaration that it is NOT sinful, and that the participants intend to continue the sinful behavior for the indefinite future...and they want to CELEBRATE that fact.

This is not a difficult matter to understand. No rational Christian would have any trouble explaining why this request was singularly unacceptable to the Christian bakers.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We are all sinners, including the Christian bakers. Certainly, they could not refuse decorating cakes for sinners, or they would not be decorating any cakes.

Nor would they refuse to decorate, say, a birthday cake for a gay person - assuming they knew that the person was gay.

Gay marriage is another proposition altogether.

Gay marriage is an affirmation, not only of sinful behavior, but at the same time it is a declaration that it is NOT sinful, and that the participants intend to continue the sinful behavior for the indefinite future...and they want to CELEBRATE that fact.

This is not a difficult matter to understand. No rational Christian would have any trouble explaining why this request was singularly unacceptable to the Christian bakers.

Gay marriage is legal and you live in a country that was formed on the division of church and state. Christians persecute gays and give real sinners a pass.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

I don't see any of those other categories forming groups that not only say there's nothing wrong with those things, but actually promoting and celebrating them. If there were, then of course Christians would be opposing that, but very few people out there are claiming that those things are right. Simple as that, really.

Being Gay is not a crime, thieving is.
Nobody is opposing the thieves right to get married or have his wife collect his pension.
Thieves have nothing to complain about, Gays have a lot to complain about.

 

[forkup]

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake.

Is there a documented case of anyone ordering a cake celebrating liars?

No but I have seen cakes, celebrating a divorce, or a second marriage. And I'm pretty sure people sometimes get a happy to be out of jail cake. So the question stands.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

Liar cake; Dammit, I wanted chocolate!!

murder cake;

Is that an adulterer cake?

yer funny, you have no understanding of property rights, that's why this is a fail thread

 

[JoeB131]

From what I understand baking a cake wasn't an issue. The issue came down to the customization that the bakers refused to loan their talents to. Sort of like a tattoo artist that might refuse customer's request for a swastika.

That's kind of retarded, actually. YOu are really comparing a gay marriage to a swastika?

And another one who just doesn't get it. Sheesh.

Duly noted you couldn't refute my point. All the things i listed above were not only bible rules, but they were things that would have been considered true sins a century ago... but hey, here was the thing. God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

 

[JoeB131]

Gay marriage is another proposition altogether.

Gay marriage is an affirmation, not only of sinful behavior, but at the same time it is a declaration that it is NOT sinful, and that the participants intend to continue the sinful behavior for the indefinite future...and they want to CELEBRATE that fact.

So I'll ask the same question of you I asked Mormon Boy, do you have any support for the premise that being gay is sinful other than the book with the talking snake and the giants in it?

 

[zaangalewa]

To be homosexual never was a sin within the christian religion. And to be gay is more a kind of virtue.

 

[Taz]

To be homosexual never was a sin within the christian religion. And to be gay is more a kind of virtue.

Are you a homo?

 

[zaangalewa]

To be homosexual never was a sin within the christian religion. And to be gay is more a kind of virtue.

Are you a homo?

Good grief. Her stupid ignorance again. Your will is I shall not write any longer anything in this forum here, isn't it, Nazi?

 

[Taz]

To be homosexual never was a sin within the christian religion. And to be gay is more a kind of virtue.

Are you a homo?

Good grief. Her stupid ignorance again. Your will is I shall not write any longer anything in this forum here, isn't it, Nazi?

So is that a yes to being a homo?

 

[Andylusion]

Liars
Thieves
Adulterers
Murderers
Gays

The four groups/behaviours above are all pretty much frowned upon by certain strands of Christianity. But I am curious as to why Gays seemingly come in for censure, a lot more so than ,for example, adulterers .

Nobody ever refused a liar a cake. They probably wouldnt have much business at all if they did.

I would argue that a devout,honest,faithful,non violent gay person would be a better individual than the others. Certainly of a higher moral standard. And yet nobody campaigns against the pension rights of murderers. Or the rights of adulterers.

I have never seen one thread on this board giving grief to liars and cheats but hundreds condemning gays.

How do you work out who gets the cake baked ?

I see absolutely no evidence that adulterers, or any of the others, are treated less harshly than gays.

In my church over 10 years ago, we found out that one of the assistant pastors was sleeping with a woman in the choir. We immediately kicked BOTH out of the church. And that was just fornication. They were not married to anyone else, they simply were not married.

It happened FAST too. We found out about it mid-week, and had him replaced by 9 AM Sunday morning.

Same is true of adultery, obviously. I used to be part of a small group of Christians that met every Thursday. One of the guys was in the military, and had a secretary, who was married. He showed up with this woman, and the entire group fell apart. Everyone quit going. Why would we go and watch a man steal another man's wife?

So where is this idea that Christians are fine with some kinds of sin, but not others? I'm not seeing it.

Now I do know of Christian groups that are fine with those kinds of sins..... but they are also fine with the sin of Homosexuality.

I don't see a double standard like you are talking about. Not on a broad Christian scale. I have no doubt there are some small groups somewhere with wacked beliefs, because there are small groups everywhere with wack beliefs. There was a Animal rights activists that try and burn down McDonald's.

But as a whole, Christians are perfectly fine with adultery, but have a problem with homosexuality? That's crazy talk. No. Of course not.

I had a guy tell me that I hated gays, and then asked me why, and would I bake a cake for a homosexual. I'm going to tell you the same answer I told him.

1. When I was working as a freelance IT support, I had a lesbian woman ask me to fix her computer at her home. I had no problem going to her home, and fixing her computer. I have had other homosexual friends other than this. I do not "hate gays".

2. Entire reason this country exists, is because we got away from British snobs, trying to dictate how we live our lives, and how we practice our faith. Ironically, the other guy who originally asked me was British as well.

We have religious freedom in this country. We do not have to answer you as to why we practice our religion, or how we practice, or what we believe about our faith. We have the freedom to practice and believe what we want, and we don't need to justify ourselves to you, or anyone else. We might choose to answer your questions, but we don't have to, and you are not 'owed' an answer.

3. I'm fairly libertarian on business stuff. If it's my business, and I own it, and it is my property, then I can do with it whatever I want. You are not 'owed' my service. You do not have a "right" to my productivity and labor.

There were slaves that were paid for their work, even in this country. That is how some slaves were able to purchase their own freedom. Being paid to do something, doesn't mean you are now a slave to the customer. Paid or otherwise, no one has a "right" to someone else's work. You have no right to tell me that "I must" provide you a service, just because you think no one should be allowed to deny service to someone.

We are a free society, and you can't 'force me' to work for you.

4. It's not about selling a cake to a gay person. It's about being involved in a gay wedding. There are differing views on this in Christian circles. For the sake of argument, I'm excluding the fake Christians that say homosexuality isn't even a sin, or wrong.... which is contradicted in the Bible dozens of times.

Some Christians say bake the cake, and who cares. Just sell people the stuff and move on.

Other Christians groups say, we shouldn't be part of something that is considered evil.

Again, no one cares about baking a Pizza, or fixing a gay person's car. It's being involved in a gay wedding, that is the problem.

I personally am a bit ambivalent on the matter. I think I would fall on the side of not being involved. I do not believe in the existence of gay marriage. There is no gay marriage. You can make a bit of paper, and write a bunch of laws. But laws do not create things, and papers do not create things. G-d himself created marriage, and it is only between a man and a woman. That paper, only states in write, what actually exists. Those laws only make clear, what already exists.

Homosexual weddings do not exist. You can have your paper, and your laws, but they simply don't exist. Why would I participate in something that is a fraud? I wouldn't. So I think I would likely fall on the side of not being involved.

But it is not because I "hate gays". It's because I love truth, and I have my religious faith. If a gay wants me to fix his car, I wouldn't hesitate to do it. If a gay wants to buy a pizza from my store, I wouldn't think twice. But I'm not going to participate in a fraud called gay marriage.

I hope that clears up the problem. We don't have a problem providing goods and services to people, that happen to be gay. It's participating in a fraud called gay-marriage, that is sin to Christians. I would participate in a seance to talk to the dead either. That's a fraud. You can't talk to dead people. Nor can two men, or two women, get married in the eyes of G-d. Not going to participate in either one.

I think the only reason people think Christians have a problem with homosexuality more than other sins, is only because you can't hide it.

If you lie to me, how do I know? Now once I find out you lied to me, I have just as much of a problem with lying, as anything else. But if I don't know.... then how would I have problem with it?

Same thing with adultery. If you ask me do a wedding, and you are stealing another man's wife... how do I know that? Now if I found out, or you were arrogant enough to tell me you were stealing another man's wife... I would refuse to take part in your marriage, just like if you were gay.

The difference is, if you ask me to put "Tim and John" on the wedding cake.... then I know. So it's easier to see this particular evil, than other evils. Doesn't mean we don't have a problem with other evils. We still do. Evil is evil. Doesn't matter which evil you are doing, it is still evil.

By the way.... if a gay person asks me to bake them a cake for their gay wedding, but never admits it's a gay wedding, and doesn't have something like "Tim and John" on the wedding cake... I would bake them the cake. Just like if I didn't know someone was stealing another man's wife, I would bake the cake.

 

[onefour1]

Gay marriage is another proposition altogether.

Gay marriage is an affirmation, not only of sinful behavior, but at the same time it is a declaration that it is NOT sinful, and that the participants intend to continue the sinful behavior for the indefinite future...and they want to CELEBRATE that fact.

So I'll ask the same question of you I asked Mormon Boy, do you have any support for the premise that being gay is sinful other than the book with the talking snake and the giants in it?

You can add to the scriptures the words of living Prophets and Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ.