a pogrom is declared

strollingbones

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Israel and Palestine

A pogrom is declared
Dec 11th 2008 | JERUSALEM
From The Economist print edition

Violence over an ancient city could have dire consequences


A VAUNTED “fight unto death” by Jewish militants holed up in a disputed building in Hebron, a city on the Palestinian West Bank that is venerated by both Jews and Muslims, ended in their quick and relatively easy eviction by Israeli police on December 4th. But the Israeli police and army failed to prevent a subsequent splurge of violence against Palestinians in the city and elsewhere in the West Bank, which Israel’s outgoing prime minister, Ehud Olmert, termed a “pogrom”. A Jewish settler was filmed shooting and wounding two local Palestinians. Israeli security officials gave warning that the anticlimactic end of the Hebron siege could prompt the militants to try even more violent and spectacular methods to promote their cause. And Binyamin Netanyahu, said by pollsters to be the likely winner of a general election due in February, was embarrassed by a fellow member of his Likud party who has climbed up the party’s election-candidates list by belligerently backing the settlers.

The building in question is on the road between the Jewish settlement-suburb of Kiryat Arba and a holy site in Hebron revered by Jews as the Cave of the Patriarchs (including Abraham) and by Muslims as the Ibrahimi Mosque. Its ownership is the subject of litigation in Israeli courts between a Jewish settler association which claims to have bought it through a Palestinian middleman, and the Palestinian owner who claims the sale lapsed before it could be completed. The case is complicated by forgeries on the Jewish side and contradictions in the Palestinian’s account.


One night in March last year, in what Israel’s High Court of Justice called a quasi-military operation, some 150 students at a yeshiva (a school for Jewish religious study) took over the building on behalf of the settler association. They say it was empty; the owner claims they used force to empty it. Last month the High Court ordered the state authorities to remove the settlers and lock up the building pending a legal ruling on its rightful ownership.

But the case has long transcended local and legal arguments to become a cause célèbre in the running confrontation between settlers and the state in the wake of the forcible evacuation of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip and some parts of the northern West Bank in 2005 ordered by the then prime minister, Ariel Sharon. Young settler militants who still nurse a grudge because of that trauma streamed to Hebron to “defend” the building, making periodic forays into Palestinian areas to stone homes and burn cars.

The settlers call this the post-Gaza “price-tag policy”, whereby any attempt by the Israeli authorities to evacuate any settlement is resisted not only by confrontation with the evacuators but also by violent attacks elsewhere against Palestinians and the army. Such tactics have recently led to injury and extensive damage to Palestinian property. Two Israeli army officers were also hurt by settler militants.

The established settlement leadership purported to condemn, or at least not to condone, the militants’ behaviour. But it is unclear who leads whom among the settlers. Several right-wing members of Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, visited the building in Hebron before the police moved in. And the heads of the Settlement Council of Judea and Samaria, the settlers’ preferred name for the West Bank, tried to negotiate a compromise with the defence minister, Ehud Barak, that would have left the Jewish squatters in the building.

This vagueness on the far right threatens to embarrass Mr Netanyahu, whose Likud says it generally opposes the withdrawal of Jewish settlers from the West Bank. In his party’s primaries on December 9th, an ultra-hardliner, Moshe Feiglin, was voted into the 20th spot on the Likud’s list of candidates, despite Mr Netanyahu’s vigorous efforts to block him. Thanks to disciplined block-voting by Mr Feiglin’s supporters among party members, the list was notable for its far-right ideological hue. Moderates whom Mr Netanyahu publicly backed were pushed down or out. Mr Feiglin’s website, in which he denies the right of Palestinians to nationhood and urges Israel to annex the West Bank, was off the air next morning for “upgrading”.


Hebron, another contested holy city | A pogrom is declared | The Economist
 
You are aware he dislikes Jews and Israel right? That he supports the idea that Israeli actions are illegal and unjustified?

hmmm on some of their actions i would agree..but no i was not aware of that...

the article was interesting due to the timing and the prior threads on the middle east problem....its certainly not all one sided
 
WHAT IS THE NETUREI KARTA?
Neturei Karta opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"!

Neturei-Karta is the Aramaic term for "Guardians of the City. The name Neturei-Karta originates from an incident in which R. Yehudah Ha-Nassi (Rabbi Judah the Prince) sent R. Hiyya and R. Ashi on a pastoral tour of inspection. In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chap. 127. (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Hagiga. 76c).

The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism.

The group was founded in Jerusalem, Palestine in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisroel. Agudas Yisroel was established in 1912 for the purpose of fighting Zionism. Gradually lured by money and honor they sold out to the "Golden-Calf" (see Exodus, XXXII) of Zionism. Those who wanted to maintain their faith and continue the struggle against Zionism, dissociated themselves from Agudas Yisroel and associated parties.

Over the years, a number of Neturei Karta activists and followers settled outside of Palestine. Some of the reasons that these individuals abandoned the country in which they and their families had lived for many generations (having lived there many years prior to the establishment of the illegitimate so-called "State of Israel") include; ideological refusal to live under the illegitimate heretical "Israeli" regime, them being exiled by the Zionist government for their insistence of remaining independent of the illegitimate heretical regime or them being unable to live a normal family life due to them and their families being persistently harassed, repeatedly incarcerated and many times even physically tortured by the Zionist police and agents. This dispersion resulted in the emergence of various Neturei Karta establishments on the broader international scene. These establishments include synagogues, educational institutions, publishing houses and organizations. The establishments in New York include three synagogues in Brooklyn (Boro Park and Williamsburg), three upstate, and organizations include the Friends of Jerusalem in NY, NY.

Neturei Karta is not - as is often alleged - a small sect or an extremist group of "ultra-orthodox" Jews. The Neturei Karta have added nothing to nor have they taken anything away from the written and oral law of the Torah as it is expressed in the Halacha and the Shulchan Aruch. The Neturei Karta are fighting the changes and inroads made by political Zionism during the past one-hundred odd years. Guided by the rabbis of our time and under the inspiring leadership of the late Reb Amram Blau, the Neturei Karta refuse to recognize the right of anyone to establish a "Jewish" state during the present period of exile.

There are those who wish to play down the Neturei Karta and its' Torah-true beliefs. This has been attempted many a time by stating that the Neturei Karta is a minority group and that compared to other Jewish groups the Neturei Karta aren't even noticeable in terms of number.

The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta. Although it is true that the number of families which could be classified as Neturei Karta members or activists per-se is relatively small (several thousand), the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in the anti-Zionist ideology which Neturei Karta is known for, number in the hundreds of thousands.

Neturei Karta oppose the so-called "State of Israel" not because it operates secularly, but because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law.

All the great rabbis who in accordance with Jewish Law opposed Zionism at its inception did not do so merely due to consideration of the secular lifestyles of the then Zionist leaders or even for their opposition to Torah heritage and rejection of its values and practices, but due to the fact that the entire concept of a Jewish state is in direct conflict with a number of Judaism's fundamentals.

Condemnation of and segregation from anything connected to or affiliated with the so-called modern day "State of Israel" is based on the Talmud, the key fundamental doctrine of the Oral Tradition handed down by G-d to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The Talmud in Tractate Kesubos (p. 111a), teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Moshiach (Messiah from the House of David). Furthermore it states that we are forbidden to rebel against the nations and that we should remain loyal citizens and we shall not attempt to leave the exile which G-d sent us into, ahead of time.

Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars.

Neturei Karta forbid any participation with the so-called "State of Israel" or any of its subsidiaries. Neturei Karta followers do not participate in "Israeli" elections nor do they accept any aid from "Bituach Le'Umi" (Social Security), and the educational institutions of the Neturei Karta reject any form of financial support from the so-called "Va'ad HaYeshivos" (equiv. to Department of Education).

The Zionist state employs a set of chief rabbis and uses religious parties to ornament their state with a clerical image. They study the Torah with commentaries altered to clothe the words with nationalistic nuances. Our rabbis have countless times proclaimed that it matters little which individuals or parties govern in the Zionist state because the very establishment and existence of the state itself is to be condemned and to be deplored.

The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism.

The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.

Neturei Karta deplore the systematic uprooting of ancient Jewish communities by the Zionists, the shedding of Jewish and non-Jewish blood for the sake of Zionist sovereignty and the Neturei Karta favor a peaceful transition from the present Zionist rule to a non-Zionist entity.

According to Judaic Law the Torah has the last word. There is no such thing as a majority of Jews who happen to be Jewish by birth who can alter Torah Law in any way. In fact even the greatest rabbi or as Maimonides writes, "even the greatest prophet" [referring actually to an authentic prophet], has no right to distort or amend even one letter of the Torah.

Rabbi Blau stated shortly before his death that the acceptance by the United Nations of the Zionist state as a member state constituted a grave injustice to the Jewish people. Neturei Karta hope that this great error will be corrected at the earliest opportunity. The Neturei Karta regret that the Zionist state has usurped the holy name of Israel and that the Zionists so often pretend to speak in the name of the Jewish people and assume the right to act on our behalf. Only those rabbis who have not been affected or influenced by the poison of Zionism, can be considered the spiritual leaders of today's Jewry.

The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!

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What is the Neturei Karta?


my jewish friends always ...just leave us to ourselves ...we will kill each other.....
 
Um No? The government Israel government is protecting the rights (at least in this incident) of Palestinians - most who vow to destroy her.

Little Troll - if you are using this toss mud on Israel you failed! What does the PLO or Hamas do to Palestinian terrorist that kill Israelis? They kill them metals and praise. A suicide bombers family receives love and support. The PLO and Hamas will not stop crimes against Jews (and in Gaza crimes against Christians). Yet the Israeli government is forcably removing Jews from unlawfully acts against Palestinians. In fact there are many Jews in Israeli prisons for crimes against Palestinians or Israeli Arabs!
 
Yes, I hate Jews as much as Neturei Karta does...:rolleyes:

Please!!!
Always the anti-semites hand-bag is try to say they can't be ardent anti-semites because of some radical self-hating Jews sing a similar tune! Who is you next hero - Finkelstein!

Look really anything you say has to be taken with a grain of salt, since you a self-proclaim anarchist! Or a better way to put it a self-proclaimed nutjob!:lol:
 
notice.. not ONE single time did the above article call a SINGLE incident of jewish violence TERRORISM.


funny how that works.
 
Please!!!
Always the anti-semites hand-bag is try to say they can't be ardent anti-semites because of some radical self-hating Jews sing a similar tune! Who is you next hero - Finkelstein!

Look really anything you say has to be taken with a grain of salt, since you a self-proclaim anarchist! Or a better way to put it a self-proclaimed nutjob!:lol:

Right, the man who's parents are Holocaust survivors is probably a Holocaust denier too. :rolleyes:

Chomsky and Finkelstein enrage Israel apologists because they dare to speak honestly without playing the race card. (Or more accurately, the ethnic card.)

This is all you people can ever do; accuse anyone who criticizes Israel of anti-Semitism. Never mind that I've expressed support for Hashomer Hatzair and Habonim Dror, and favor Jewish organization around the kibbutzim; I must be some stinking Nazi. :rolleyes:

notice.. not ONE single time did the above article call a SINGLE incident of jewish violence TERRORISM.


funny how that works.

Of course not. The Irgun spread flowers and love! :rolleyes:
 
you pretty much nailed ghook to the proverbial wall. Not the aparthied wall, mind you, THATS for palis of course.
 
hehehe.. yea.. mentioning the aparthied wall sure is irrelevant to a discussion about jewish terrorism.. :lol:


:thup:
 
I'm not sure what "aparthied" is, but when it comes to apartheid, is that relevant to discussion of Jewish terrorism as it relates to the Irgun?

Think carefully now. One step at a time. One word at a time. One letter at a time. ;)
 
oh NOeeZ! I transposed two letters!


:lol:


you sure did land a knockout blow in pointing that out!


:thup:

and yes, I'm not in the mood to itemize jewish terrorism since we sure don't see the same consideration for non-jews. If you don't comprehend the validity of pointing this out, in light not a single instance of jewish terrorism being called as much above, then just admit it and move on instead of getting all bitter at how i've treated you in other threads.
 
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