"A free thinker is Satan's slave"

[ABikerSailor]

And how many years ago?

And did they not develop their theories under Christian rule?

They may have developed those theories with the help of the church, but they also had to keep their findings secret or they'd be branded as heretics. Yeah, someone can help you out at the beginning, but they can still screw you at the end, which is what the Church did to Copernicus and Galileo.

DaVinci also had to hide a lot of his research, most notably his studies on anatomy as the Church said it was illegal to cut up the dead. Sadly, if DaVinci had been able to publish his findings back then, we'd probably all be living to around 150, because it wasn't until the LATE 1990's that Gray's Anatomy (recognized world wide by doctors as the most complete source of anatomy since it started to be published) finally caught up with where DaVinci was back in the 1400's.

Try again Krusty Twit.

 

[Montrovant]

The argument about what nation in history has been most prosperous is dependent upon the criteria you use. If area of land controlled or % of population are part of the nation are involved, the US is certainly not at the top of the list.

Those are not measures of prosperity. Some might argue that they are measures of success, but prosperity? Hardly.

If it is a matter of who controls the most wealth, I don't know how we would rank...especially considering the differences in economies over time. If personal liberty is the criteria, certainly, the US goes at the top. I don't know how it requires a lack of integrity to wonder what criteria one uses to determine what makes a nation prosperous.

"The measure of the prosperity of a nation is the fortunes of the least among them." - Lord Byron.

Name society in history where commoners have enjoyed more comforts and freedom for starvation or disease than the USA? You can't, as none exists.

I understand, people will not agree to transform a society which is arguably successful. The only means of ending the free republic and returning to the authoritarian norms that dominate human history is to convince the foolish masses that their personal fortunes will rise if the cede liberty to a willing ruling class. Ergo the impetus to rewrite history, casting the Americans as villains.



Successful is not a synonym of prosperous.



The claim that other nations have a more prosperous history is a fabrication.

I was using logical4u's own words in the quote about people working in the past. You asked about non-Christian communities in the 19th century, but skipped the part about only Christians working hard, building schools, etc. My point was simply that he seemed to be saying only Christians did any work in this country, I couldn't name any non-Christian communities to hold up as admirable.

Like it or not, the United States was a Christian country. Regardless of a smattering of Deists, the nation was built by Christians.

This is important, too. It is the concepts of Christian liberty which the nation is founded on. The ideas of Jesuits, Luther, Wesley, et al, that man is sovereign and answerable to his God rather than to kings or dictators are the libertine foundation that this experiment in freedom was built on. America could not have arisen without the overwhelming Christian presence of the 18th century.

Feel free to show the fabrications of history I've stated, rather than the ones you've created and assigned to me.

The fabrication of a more prosperous nation.

I'll skip most of this as it's not anything I disagree with strongly. I will stick to the idea that the criteria for what makes a prosperous nation is your Byron quote. If, when saying the US is the most prosperous nation in history, one were to use that quote as your definition for criteria, that would be fine. However, in the discussion I was having with logical4u, he did not make such a distinction. The definition of prosperous generally involves wealth and/or success. How one determines that is open to argument, as I said. You are using your own (or at least Byron's) definition of prosperity of nations and assuming everyone else must be using the same.

So, offhand, I don't know of another nation that would be more prosperous than the US by the Byron definition. To say that I am creating historical fabrications, based on my statements about the US as the most prosperous nation in history, where the definition of what makes a nation prosperous isn't clearly defined, is ludicrous. You seem to be projecting what you imagine my thoughts on the subject are onto me, rather than reading what I actually say about it.

 

[Old Rocks]

PS, you ignoramus..."Freethinker" is a term for "atheist".

Atheists are Satan's slaves, and anyone who has read Dragon's drivel knows it.

And just who maligned the term freethinker into atheism?
And why?

Oh. My. God.

" one who forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority; especially : one who doubts or denies religious dogma"

Freethinker - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

the free thinker..."the voice of atheism since 1881"

The Freethinker

I see. So Luther was an athiest by your definition. So a Diest is an athiest by your definition. In fact, all the religious people of today are athiest by your defintion since they left the worship of older Gods for the present Dieties. Really, Aphroditie was a lot more fun.

 

[Dragon]

The Dragon Talking: The Devil and Dualism: or, Having One's Cake and Eating It, Too

 

[kiwiman127]

All religions are based on faith. Faith requires an open-mind.

 

[Dr.Drock]

All religions are based on faith. Faith requires an open-mind.

In some instances, in some instances if you're going to take everything from a holy book as 100% fact, you have to have a closed mind.

 

[Dragon]

All religions are based on faith. Faith requires an open-mind.

In some instances, in some instances if you're going to take everything from a holy book as 100% fact, you have to have a closed mind.

This illustrates the difference between faith and dogma. Faith is not belief, or perhaps one could say that it's belief in, not belief that. It's trust, willingness to go to sleep at night in confidence of waking in the morning, to put one's foot forward into uncertainty, to trust in the universe to allow one's survival and happiness.

Dogma is not faith. It is merely a crutch for faith, which some need and others do not.

 

[koshergrl]

Wow.

Dropping acid today? That's a variance from the norm, isn't it?

 

[logical4u]

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

WTF are you talking about? When did this become about the founding of the country?

Whether this country has prospered beyond any civilization to date is open to argument. There have been nations that lasted longer, covered more area, etc. in the past. While this is my personal favorite, it could easily be argued that many of the great empires were more prosperous.

Also, it seems you are saying that non-Christians in this country's past did not work hard, form communities, build churches, schools, hospitals, and staff them. That's right, the history of this country is one of Christians working hard and everyone else doing nothing!

The more I talk with you, the more you seem to be saying that Christians are good and everyone else is bad. If that is the way you look at the world, there's really no point talking to you.

Good one (you are speaking with reason, and I am on an "emo" rant)! I will pretend that I am not talking to you (chicken neck and snap).

Christianity is a HUGE part of our history. Pretending it isn't shows that logic and reason are foreign to you.

I did not say that others did not work (hard or otherwise). I pointed out that during the first two hundred years (and parts of it for a hundred years before that), this nation was predominantly Christian, with Christian (Judeo) values.

Today, way too many people ignore/reduce/replace those values and embrace corruption (our current senate and administration) to take/steal/tax the wealth that the predominantly Christian society built. They claim the care about the working man and then ridicule Christians that are selected time and time again for their work ethic (it shows in the resume), and their productivity (kind of ironic, don't you think?).

I suggested that some other groups show up the Christian communities to make SOME people think (that God given ability to reason). Theoretically, those communities would be "just as good", as Christian communities... yet, time and time again, that is not the case. Homosexual neighborhoods are no place to take little children after dark (Why, if they are just the same?). Neighborhoods where the churches have closed down are not safe to walk (many during the day, Why?) Predominantly muslim communities may harrass women for wearing "unacceptable" clothing (why, are their values the same?)

I cannot tell you how many places that I have been to where a Christian couple could not have children (and some cases where they did), that made great fortunes and invested it in their property (later donated or opened the property to the public) and their community (Hershey, PA) to improve a small part of the world where they lived (BTW, none of those properties were developed and landscaped by the "poor"). Can you list the "non-Christians" that do things like that?

And, yes, I realize that there are exceptional people from all faiths (and a few, very few that have NO faith). I am just pointing out that living with Christian values tends to improve the lives of everyone they touch. The Lord promised blessings for those that followed Him. If you ask a devout Christian if they are blessed, they can usually give you a list, and tell you that there are other blessings that they miss, everyday! Those that live near Christians, tend to have those blessings shared in small ways, if not directly. Salutations to the Lord, and hoping He will continue to bless this nation, and its people!

 

[logical4u]

(i want a Christian perspective, on the following questions)

First, i understand, that in 1095 AD, acting in the Name of "God in heaven", Pope Urban II called for a "Crusade" against the Middle East, calling the Turks an "execrable" & "accursed" race; and that, ultimately, the "Crusades" have motivated Middle Easterners, e.g. Turks, ever since, to wage Jihad against Europe, e.g. to conquer Constantinople.

Second, i understand, that c.30 AD, Jesus, the "Messiah" of "God in heaven", Ordered Christians to Evangelize all humans on earth (Matthew 24:14); and that European Christian "Missionaries" obeyed that Order, Evangelizing the Americas, Asia, & Africa, during the 16th-19th centuries AD; and that, ultimately, those "Missions" have motivated non-whites, world-wide, to Hate whites, for "shoving the Gospel down their throats".

Has obeying "God in heaven", influenced "race relations", betweens whites & non-whites, on earth ?

First, you need to understand that the "turks" invaded the ME, the area surrounding the Mediterranean, and northern Africa. They were not "peacefully" spreading the will of Mohammed. They were murdering, looting, and subjugating the populations as they moved. The pope was asked for help, and he chose to give it (otherwise you would be speaking Arab and bowing to the east a bunch of times a day). I know when it comes to religion, self-preservation/defense is considered irrational.

Second: no one has had " the Gospel shoved down their throat", long ago, that was considered a horrible waste of the written Word, and today, there really is no need. Speaking to some one about what works for you is not "forcing" them to do anything (verses the muslims that bring food to a starving family and demand "fealty"). I understand that it is "convenient" to blame Christians while ignoring the Arab and Black slavers that sold to whites (one was the non-Christian man that wrote Amazing Grace if you want an interesting story). You are also ignoring that "gov'ts" used "faith" as an excuse (because the population was illiterate about what was actually in the Bible, a situation that is being repeated today) to do terrible deeds.


You are also ignoring the "missions" that have existed since our Savior, Yeshua, rose from the dead and invited the Holy Spirit to bless His apostles. How many of them have saved people from starvation, improved lives, and communities, and given people with no chance, hope? Just do an internet search of Christian charities, and compare to any other group you choose. What is the ratio? A thousand to one, ten thousand to one?

I have never claimed that I met a perfect Christian. I am stating that "overall", the people that live according to Christian values (recognize there is a "Lord" that is the alpha and the omega, honor you parents, do not take what is not yours, do not bear false witness/deceive, do not murder) are more prosperous, and happier than people that live according to other beliefs.

 

[Montrovant]

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

WTF are you talking about? When did this become about the founding of the country?

Whether this country has prospered beyond any civilization to date is open to argument. There have been nations that lasted longer, covered more area, etc. in the past. While this is my personal favorite, it could easily be argued that many of the great empires were more prosperous.

Also, it seems you are saying that non-Christians in this country's past did not work hard, form communities, build churches, schools, hospitals, and staff them. That's right, the history of this country is one of Christians working hard and everyone else doing nothing!

The more I talk with you, the more you seem to be saying that Christians are good and everyone else is bad. If that is the way you look at the world, there's really no point talking to you.

Good one (you are speaking with reason, and I am on an "emo" rant)! I will pretend that I am not talking to you (chicken neck and snap).

Christianity is a HUGE part of our history. Pretending it isn't shows that logic and reason are foreign to you.

I did not say that others did not work (hard or otherwise). I pointed out that during the first two hundred years (and parts of it for a hundred years before that), this nation was predominantly Christian, with Christian (Judeo) values.

Today, way too many people ignore/reduce/replace those values and embrace corruption (our current senate and administration) to take/steal/tax the wealth that the predominantly Christian society built. They claim the care about the working man and then ridicule Christians that are selected time and time again for their work ethic (it shows in the resume), and their productivity (kind of ironic, don't you think?).

I suggested that some other groups show up the Christian communities to make SOME people think (that God given ability to reason). Theoretically, those communities would be "just as good", as Christian communities... yet, time and time again, that is not the case. Homosexual neighborhoods are no place to take little children after dark (Why, if they are just the same?). Neighborhoods where the churches have closed down are not safe to walk (many during the day, Why?) Predominantly muslim communities may harrass women for wearing "unacceptable" clothing (why, are their values the same?)

I cannot tell you how many places that I have been to where a Christian couple could not have children (and some cases where they did), that made great fortunes and invested it in their property (later donated or opened the property to the public) and their community (Hershey, PA) to improve a small part of the world where they lived (BTW, none of those properties were developed and landscaped by the "poor"). Can you list the "non-Christians" that do things like that?

And, yes, I realize that there are exceptional people from all faiths (and a few, very few that have NO faith). I am just pointing out that living with Christian values tends to improve the lives of everyone they touch. The Lord promised blessings for those that followed Him. If you ask a devout Christian if they are blessed, they can usually give you a list, and tell you that there are other blessings that they miss, everyday! Those that live near Christians, tend to have those blessings shared in small ways, if not directly. Salutations to the Lord, and hoping He will continue to bless this nation, and its people!

Believing I said that Christianity was not a huge part of our country's history shows reading comprehension is foreign to you. I have not and will not deny that the US has been a majority-Christian country throughout it's history. As such, it is only reasonable to assume a majority of our leaders have held Christian values of one stripe or another (no need to get into my opinion of politicians here ).

I bolded what you actually posted, but here it is again, "The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them." Perhaps you meant something else, but it certainly seems like you are saying Christians worked while others did not.

I don't think the current administration is so much more inimical to Christianity than any others in recent times. I think that is more of a wedge issue, more of one of the talking points that politicians and political parties like to make a big deal about, but that isn't a good reflection of reality. That doesn't mean there might not be a little bit of anti-Christian sentiment in the current administration, just that it isn't some huge difference.

Again, as far as non-Christian communities go, just the extreme prevalence of Christianity in this country makes finding such a community a difficult proposition. And, as previously stated, simply looking at the religious beliefs of a community is disingenuous at best when comparing it to another community. One would need to look at size, population, resources, political leanings, age, and any number of other variables to be able to say confidently that religious belief alone is the reason for success.

I don't know anyone that has made a 'great fortune'. However, I doubt that only Christians, among the wealthy, are charitable or invest in their community. But you know what, I'll just accept your anecdotal evidence here.

I liked your little dig that only a very few people without faith are exceptional.

 

[logical4u]

Lol you're absolutely adorable. Like a little kitten playing with yarn! Same level of intellect too.

I don't want any religious beliefs sponsored by gov't, yours, mine, or Scooby Doo's. If you want to build a million churches across America who spread your loving ideas of bigotry, evolution is a tool of Satan, and how everyone who disagrees with you is a disciple of Hitler, I want you to have that freedom.

However your hero Fred Phelps seems to have beat you to it.

Why is it, when it is pointed out, how turning away from the Lord causes many problems and turning to the Lord reduces problems, that a small percentage of "believers" (not sure what they believe, but they are against Christianity) want to declare that it is the same as "gov't sponsored religion"? Where did I or anyone else suggest that? Is this just a dodge technique because the Truth (and the Light) scares you soo much?

Please don't make things up and give some evidence on these utopia-like places that do not practice Christian values.

 

[Avatar4321]

All religions are based on faith. Faith requires an open-mind.

In some instances, in some instances if you're going to take everything from a holy book as 100% fact, you have to have a closed mind.

If you do so without pondering and applying the principles, you are correct.

But when said book or books tell you exactly how you can learn whether the principles they are teachings are true. And you have to choose whether to try them out or not, then you have to have an open mind if you are going to learn, arent you?

 

[logical4u]

And you claimed Logical had deviated from the topic, too.

This is what atheists (particularly atheists who hide themselves behind the term *free thinkers*) do...they lie when the subject matter becomes too intense and truthful.

Like pretending we have no atheist communities to compare to Christian communities. What a crock. We have immense atheist communities to compare to our Christian ones. They live in China, in Cambodia, in North Korea, in Cuba, in Russia, in Czechoslavakia, in Albania. They had brief but spectacular bursts in revolutionary France and Mexico.

But of course you will pretend those don't count.

When you propose the state shut down the free practice of religion, when you propose that religious people be barred from participating in politics, you are promoting state-sponsored atheism.

When you lie about how much more advanced imaginary atheist communities are than Christian ones, you invite the comparison...which you then say doesn't exist...

There have been atheist communities, there have been communities of every belief and non belief, all have instances of going well and going badly.

The only person I vote for, Ron Paul, is even more fundamentalist than you are. The greatest american in the history of this country imo, MLK Jr, was even more fundamentalist than you are.

I've never said atheist communities are more advanced than christian ones, if you can support that particular lie (which you've never been able to support your ever-growing list of lies in the past) than I'll concede.

Ready...............set....................GO!

 

[Avatar4321]

Lol you're absolutely adorable. Like a little kitten playing with yarn! Same level of intellect too.

I don't want any religious beliefs sponsored by gov't, yours, mine, or Scooby Doo's. If you want to build a million churches across America who spread your loving ideas of bigotry, evolution is a tool of Satan, and how everyone who disagrees with you is a disciple of Hitler, I want you to have that freedom.

However your hero Fred Phelps seems to have beat you to it.

Why is it, when it is pointed out, how turning away from the Lord causes many problems and turning to the Lord reduces problems, that a small percentage of "believers" (not sure what they believe, but they are against Christianity) want to declare that it is the same as "gov't sponsored religion"? Where did I or anyone else suggest that? Is this just a dodge technique because the Truth (and the Light) scares you soo much?

Please don't make things up and give some evidence on these utopia-like places that do not practice Christian values.

Honestly, I can't really blame him for thinking that any time we suggest doing better, we want the government to enforce it. The fact that the progressives have polluted our culture with the idea that the only way ideas can be implimented is through government is hard to ignore, even when we realize that isnt true.

 

[logical4u]

And you claimed Logical had deviated from the topic, too.

This is what atheists (particularly atheists who hide themselves behind the term *free thinkers*) do...they lie when the subject matter becomes too intense and truthful.

Like pretending we have no atheist communities to compare to Christian communities. What a crock. We have immense atheist communities to compare to our Christian ones. They live in China, in Cambodia, in North Korea, in Cuba, in Russia, in Czechoslavakia, in Albania. They had brief but spectacular bursts in revolutionary France and Mexico.

But of course you will pretend those don't count.

When you propose the state shut down the free practice of religion, when you propose that religious people be barred from participating in politics, you are promoting state-sponsored atheism.

When you lie about how much more advanced imaginary atheist communities are than Christian ones, you invite the comparison...which you then say doesn't exist...

Actually, during the time of Copernicus and Galileo (2 free thinkers who said that the Earth revolves around the Sun), they were persecuted for their study by the Christian community of the Church because what they said was heresey against what the Church taught, which was that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

So, exactly how tolerant was the Church then? Did they uphold the values of liberty? How about knowledge? Freedom? Because what the church did was to keep them under house arrest.

Oh yeah............during that time, a group of free thinkers formed a group called the Illuminati which was a group of scientists and astrologers who met in secret to compare notes, because if they did it in public, they'd be persecuted by the Church.

And then...........we can talk about Torquemada and the Inquisition if you like.

How are their cases any different from George Zimmerman ? You have a small group that disagrees with decisions made, that are demanding a sacrifice. Those in power recognize to keep order, the beast (mob, a small percentage of the population) must be fed, in order to keep relative order in other areas.

Yes there were instances where the church's leaders did terrible things (and some even claimed that they were doing it for the Lord). Overall, the evils that these people did were rejected by the church and its members. The church is soo different that socialists/communists/liberals/progressives/leftists/homosexual activists/muslim extremists/environmentalist activists (choose one, they all act the same) in that they have actually learned from their mistakes and work towards correcting those mistakes so that they do not happen again. Unlike the above lists, that waits until a new generation is vulnerable and pulls out the same lame methods of coercion to deceive people into bowing to their "chosen" (dictator or gov't).

 

[Montrovant]

And you claimed Logical had deviated from the topic, too.

This is what atheists (particularly atheists who hide themselves behind the term *free thinkers*) do...they lie when the subject matter becomes too intense and truthful.

Like pretending we have no atheist communities to compare to Christian communities. What a crock. We have immense atheist communities to compare to our Christian ones. They live in China, in Cambodia, in North Korea, in Cuba, in Russia, in Czechoslavakia, in Albania. They had brief but spectacular bursts in revolutionary France and Mexico.

But of course you will pretend those don't count.

When you propose the state shut down the free practice of religion, when you propose that religious people be barred from participating in politics, you are promoting state-sponsored atheism.

When you lie about how much more advanced imaginary atheist communities are than Christian ones, you invite the comparison...which you then say doesn't exist...

Actually, during the time of Copernicus and Galileo (2 free thinkers who said that the Earth revolves around the Sun), they were persecuted for their study by the Christian community of the Church because what they said was heresey against what the Church taught, which was that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

So, exactly how tolerant was the Church then? Did they uphold the values of liberty? How about knowledge? Freedom? Because what the church did was to keep them under house arrest.

Oh yeah............during that time, a group of free thinkers formed a group called the Illuminati which was a group of scientists and astrologers who met in secret to compare notes, because if they did it in public, they'd be persecuted by the Church.

And then...........we can talk about Torquemada and the Inquisition if you like.

How are their cases any different from George Zimmerman ? You have a small group that disagrees with decisions made, that are demanding a sacrifice. Those in power recognize to keep order, the beast (mob, a small percentage of the population) must be fed, in order to keep relative order in other areas.

Yes there were instances where the church's leaders did terrible things (and some even claimed that they were doing it for the Lord). Overall, the evils that these people did were rejected by the church and its members. The church is soo different that socialists/communists/liberals/progressives/leftists/homosexual activists/muslim extremists/environmentalist activists (choose one, they all act the same) in that they have actually learned from their mistakes and work towards correcting those mistakes so that they do not happen again. Unlike the above lists, that waits until a new generation is vulnerable and pulls out the same lame methods of coercion to deceive people into bowing to their "chosen" (dictator or gov't).

The church has had some bad leaders, but the church and it's members have mostly been good. Further, the church is constantly changing to become better. But your list of 8 different groups, some of which are diametrically opposed, are all exactly the same and never change?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Lol you're absolutely adorable. Like a little kitten playing with yarn! Same level of intellect too.

I don't want any religious beliefs sponsored by gov't, yours, mine, or Scooby Doo's. If you want to build a million churches across America who spread your loving ideas of bigotry, evolution is a tool of Satan, and how everyone who disagrees with you is a disciple of Hitler, I want you to have that freedom.

However your hero Fred Phelps seems to have beat you to it.

Why is it, when it is pointed out, how turning away from the Lord causes many problems and turning to the Lord reduces problems, that a small percentage of "believers" (not sure what they believe, but they are against Christianity) want to declare that it is the same as "gov't sponsored religion"? Where did I or anyone else suggest that? Is this just a dodge technique because the Truth (and the Light) scares you soo much?

Please don't make things up and give some evidence on these utopia-like places that do not practice Christian values.

Honestly, I can't really blame him for thinking that any time we suggest doing better, we want the government to enforce it. The fact that the progressives have polluted our culture with the idea that the only way ideas can be implimented is through government is hard to ignore, even when we realize that isnt true.

I'm arguing the exact opposite of what you just said. I don't want gov't sponsored religion in gov't, fundies do, as long as it's their beliefs.

If you think the country would be better if everyone was a christian and/or a mormon and want society to become that, that's fine. I wouldn't agree, but rest assured the last thing i want is gov't sponsored religious views.

 

[koshergrl]

No, you're not.

You want the government to control religion. And that is unconstitutional.

But don't let a little thing like the Constitution stop you.

 

[koshergrl]

"State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence, real or alleged, in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.[10] State promotion of atheism as a public norm was first practised during a brief period in Revolutionary France. Since then, such a policy was repeated only in Revolutionary Mexico and some communist states. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[11] in which social success largely required individuals to profess atheism, stay away from churches and even vandalize them; this attitude was especially militant during the middle Stalinist era from 1929-1939.[12][13][14] The Soviet Union attempted to suppress religion over wide areas of its influence, including places such as central Asia.[15] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion."

State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia