A fatal flaw with the security of mail-in ballots . . . no chain of custody

[johnwk]

The word "fatal flaw" is in the Title.

If it wasn't a "fatal flaw" in 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004 etc.... it wasn't a fatal flaw in 2020.

We are talking about no-excuse, mail in ballots, which were introduced into a number of states under the cover of COVID, which gave these States the opportunity to justify their use.

There is no chain-of custody with mail-in ballots and that allows for various kinds of vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud. And thus, expanding excuse-based mail-in ballots to no-excuse mail-in ballots, greatly expands the opportunity for vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud.

In any event see: Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

1,490 Proven instances of voter fraud, 1,274 Criminal convictions

The fact is, we were warned, back in 2012, that: The real vote-fraud opportunity has arrived: casting your ballot by mail. The article states that,

"In the partisan controversies over changes in voter eligibility and voter ID requirements, the growth of mail voting and no-excuse absentee voting have received little attention. While voter-impersonation fraud at the polls is nearly unheard of, both sides in the voter fraud debate acknowledge that absentee ballots are susceptible to fraud."

JWK

The troubling truth about allowing no-excuse mail-in voting in one state is, when acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one jurisdiction “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain.” Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)”.

 

[bodecea]

We are talking about no-excuse, mail in ballots, which were introduced into a number of states under the cover of COVID, which gave these States the opportunity to justify their use.Still

There is no chain-of custody with mail-in ballots and that allows for various kinds of vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud. And thus, expanding excuse-based mail-in ballots to no-excuse mail-in ballots, greatly expands the opportunity for vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud.

In any event see: Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

1,490 Proven instances of voter fraud, 1,274 Criminal convictions

The fact is, we were warned, back in 2012, that: The real vote-fraud opportunity has arrived: casting your ballot by mail. The article states that,



JWK

The troubling truth about allowing no-excuse mail-in voting in one state is, when acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one jurisdiction “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain.” Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)”.

Still advocating for disenfranchising our deployed military on multiple forum platforms, eh?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Multiple states do nothing but mail in ballots. If your name is on the registered voter rolls, you get a ballot. They’ve conducted dozens of elections with this system.

Other than your blob, none of the losers in those states have whined about massive voter fraud. None of their elected officials have their legitimacy called into question--one of them being Lauren Robert of Colorado.

The “crisis” is completely fabricated.

Just because multiple states do Mail-In voting does not mean it is not flawed; that’s the “everyone does it” argument do it must be okay.

Your argument does not adequately refute the OP argument that when a voter receives an unsolicited ballot mailed to the location of what is on the register list, how do you know the correct person is voting? What if it is a new resident living in the house because the voter died or moved? What if the ballot is sent to someone who is incapacitated with dementia? With Absentee Voting, at least there is a cross check of the voter requesting the ballot.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

If you don't like mail in ballots, vote in person.

 

[johnwk]

If you don't like mail in ballots, vote in person.

Weak response.

 

[candycorn]

In any event see: Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

1,490 Proven instances of voter fraud, 1,274 Criminal convictions

Great...

Now tell us how far back in time those 1,490 cases (for reference there were 150M+ votes in the 2020 US Presidential election alone).

I know how far back some of those cases go... I just want you to say it.

 

[candycorn]

Just because multiple states do Mail-In voting does not mean it is not flawed; that’s the “everyone does it” argument do it must be okay.

No what it does mean is that up until your orange blob threw his 3 year temper tantrum...you guys never questioned the validity of elections that were ran in states with 100% vote by mail. Now that your blob has thrown a tantrum, you suddenly, like a Pavlovian dog, start barking about it.

Your argument does not adequately refute the OP argument that when a voter receives an unsolicited ballot mailed to the location of what is on the register list, how do you know the correct person is voting?

Well, I don’t exactly. But we do have a track record with these states that do it.

​

There has never been any massive voter fraud detected.​

You guys have never bitched about it until your blob started his tantrum.​

​

So why all of the “oh my god...they’re voting by mail” anxiety all of the sudden??? Its because your blob lost and you’re pissed about it.

What if it is a new resident living in the house because the voter died or moved? What if the ballot is sent to someone who is incapacitated with dementia? With Absentee Voting, at least there is a cross check of the voter requesting the ballot.

I suppose that could happen. But again...the track record is that it hasn’t.

But if you insist...you can tell Lauren Boebert that she is not a legitimate member of congress since voting by mail put her there...twice.

 

[johnwk]

Great...

Now tell us how far back in time those 1,490 cases (for reference there were 150M+ votes in the 2020 US Presidential election alone).

I know how far back some of those cases go... I just want you to say it.

Your deflection is noted. The irrefutable fact is, there is a fatal flaw with mail-in ballots.

They allow for vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud . . . chain of custody is lost with mail in ballots, and there is no practical way to confirm if a ballot, when counted was filled out and the choices maid thereon, was by the person assigned the mailed-in ballot, and that is why mail-in voting ought to be limited to a legitimate excuse-based need.

By doing so, the total number of mail-in ballots would be reduced to a fraction of what is now the case, and in so doing, even though the opportunity for mail-in ballot fraud would still exist, its effect on an election would be greatly reduced by the reduction in actual mail-in ballots allowed.

Why this suggested corrective action - to a known problem which is corrupting our election process, is even being questioned is shocking to say the least, unless those attacking a corrective solution are the very ones who have a special interest in allowing existing vote stealing and election fraud to continue using mail-in ballots.

Finally, you may want to study MAIL-IN VOTING IN 2020 INFRASTRUCTURE RISK ASSESSMENT

Under "KEY FINDINGS" it was concluded:

Integrity attacks on voter registration data and systems represent a comparatively higher risk in a mail-in voting environment when compared to an in-person voting environment. This is because the voter is not present at the time of casting the ballot and cannot help to answer questions regarding their eligibility or identity verification.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

View attachment 877373

Weak response.

Perfectly acceptable because both are legal options. So you don't like it. OK.

 

[johnwk]

Perfectly acceptable

Perfectly acceptable to those who want vote stealing and election fraud to be available to them.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Perfectly acceptable to those who want vote stealing and election fraud to be available to them.

MAGA, you mean

 

[candycorn]

Your deflection is noted. The irrefutable fact is, there is a fatal flaw with mail-in ballots.

They allow for vote stealing and government perpetrated election fraud . . . chain of custody is lost with mail in ballots, and there is no practical way to confirm if a ballot, when counted was filled out and the choices maid thereon, was by the person assigned the mailed-in ballot, and that is why mail-in voting ought to be limited to a legitimate excuse-based need.

By doing so, the total number of mail-in ballots would be reduced to a fraction of what is now the case, and in so doing, even though the opportunity for mail-in ballot fraud would still exist, its effect on an election would be greatly reduced by the reduction in actual mail-in ballots allowed.

Why this suggested corrective action - to a known problem which is corrupting our election process, is even being questioned is shocking to say the least, unless those attacking a corrective solution are the very ones who have a special interest in allowing existing vote stealing and election fraud to continue using mail-in ballots.

Finally, you may want to study MAIL-IN VOTING IN 2020 INFRASTRUCTURE RISK ASSESSMENT

Under "KEY FINDINGS" it was concluded:

Deflection?

I asked about a link YOU provided in some lame attempt to show how supposedly vulnerable our election apparatus is. Of course you know that man of that paltry 1400 cases goes back decades. Out of the hundreds of millions of votes cast every 4 years, you found 1,400 cases of voter fraud.

That isn't me saying it. That is something you said.

Now...just to rub your nose in it, here is a screen shot of you saying it.

To put that in perspective, lets just say that there were 1,490 cases of voter fraud and each case was 100 votes (which it wasn't) were all from 2020... that would be 149,000 votes that were fraudulent. 149,000 out of over 160,000,000. Not even 1%.

The key findings is that your blob lost a fair election.

 

[LeftofLeft]

No what it does mean is that up until your orange blob threw his 3 year temper tantrum...you guys never questioned the validity of elections that were ran in states with 100% vote by mail. Now that your blob has thrown a tantrum, you suddenly, like a Pavlovian dog, start barking about it.

Well, I don’t exactly. But we do have a track record with these states that do it.

​

There has never been any massive voter fraud detected.​

You guys have never bitched about it until your blob started his tantrum.​

​

So why all of the “oh my god...they’re voting by mail” anxiety all of the sudden??? Its because your blob lost and you’re pissed about it.



I suppose that could happen. But again...the track record is that it hasn’t.

But if you insist...you can tell Lauren Boebert that she is not a legitimate member of congress since voting by mail put her there...twice.

How many or which states are doing mail-in? What does mail/in accomplish that Absentee voting does not? What are the fraud detection techniques?

 

[candycorn]

How many or which states are doing mail-in? What does mail/in accomplish that Absentee voting does not? What are the fraud detection techniques?

You register and they send you a ballot. You fill it out when you want and send it in at your leisure. You smell that? That is the smell of freedom! Much better than having to beg the State to let you do what you want through the absentee process.

Fraud detection techniques? Well, take Oregon for example. They've done at least 10 elections by this process. In each of the elections, there were hundreds of losers (if not thousands). Making for thousands of losers. None of them have bitched about voter fraud. So the fraud detection must be pretty good.

Anything else?

 

[LeftofLeft]

View attachment 877556
You register and they send you a ballot. You fill it out when you want and send it in at your leisure. You smell that? That is the smell of freedom! Much better than having to beg the State to let you do what you want through the absentee process.

Fraud detection techniques? Well, take Oregon for example. They've done at least 10 elections by this process. In each of the elections, there were hundreds of losers (if not thousands). Making for thousands of losers. None of them have bitched about voter fraud. So the fraud detection must be pretty good.

Anything else?

Mail In voting isn’t any more free than In Person or Absentee Voting. Requesting a ballot either in person or absentee voting is not “begging”. By your logic, “registering” to vote is “begging the State” as well.

Just because no voters “have bitched”
in 10 elections does not mean the fraud detection techniques are good.

Here is your logic. A bridge stands for 60 years and someone comes forward and says it needs to be checked for vulnerabilities. The bridge owner says, “we haven’t had any collapses in 60 years, no one has complained, and the bridge gets people from one side to the other/ and that’s the taste of freedom!”

 

[candycorn]

Mail In voting isn’t any more free than In Person or Absentee Voting.

Sure it is. You can take your time with the ballot in your house, look up information on the candidates, ballot initiatives etc... instead of the rather nutty making 50+ decisions in 2 minutes while you're in a booth. I mean...if you had no idea what voting was and you were presented with the ability to do it at home over days and weeks or standing in line for up to 3 hours to then make 50 decisions while you're in a booth....only a fucking idiot (no offense intended) would choose to stand in a booth.

Requesting a ballot either in person or absentee voting is not “begging”.

Sure it is. When you request an absentee ballot--if you're not in a "no excuse" state, you have to give the State a reason why you are requesting it.

By your logic, “registering” to vote is “begging the State” as well.

Not even remotely true.

Just because no voters “have bitched”
in 10 elections does not mean the fraud detection techniques are good.

Sure it does. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist because your blob lost an election and the GOP continues to lose elections where they cannot gerrymander the outcome.

Here is your logic. A bridge stands for 60 years and someone comes forward and says it needs to be checked for vulnerabilities. The bridge owner says, “we haven’t had any collapses in 60 years, no one has complained, and the bridge gets people from one side to the other/ and that’s the taste of freedom!”

Again, not even remotely true.

We have election workers who check ballots that are cast. You're simply ignorant on the process or lying out of your ass. I'm guessing the latter.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Sure it is. You can take your time with the ballot in your house, look up information on the candidates, ballot initiatives etc... instead of the rather nutty making 50+ decisions in 2 minutes while you're in a booth. I mean...if you had no idea what voting was and you were presented with the ability to do it at home over days and weeks or standing in line for up to 3 hours to then make 50 decisions while you're in a booth....only a fucking idiot (no offense intended) would choose to stand in a booth.

Sure it is. When you request an absentee ballot--if you're not in a "no excuse" state, you have to give the State a reason why you are requesting it.

View attachment 877613

Not even remotely true.

Sure it does. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist because your blob lost an election and the GOP continues to lose elections where they cannot gerrymander the outcome.

Again, not even remotely true.

We have election workers who check ballots that are cast. You're simply ignorant on the process or lying out of your ass. I'm guessing the latter.

You are calling me ignorant on the process of validating ballots but it is yourself who has yet to provide any detail or insight as to “how” that is done other than “we have workers” to check ballots.

Adopting a little personal accountability would a long way in your entitlement to intellectual authority.

 

[johnwk]

You are calling me ignorant on the process of validating ballots but it is yourself who has yet to provide any detail or insight as to “how” that is done other than “we have workers” to check ballots.

You are absolutely correct with respect to that poster. Additionally, anyone of a state's election officers wanting to rig an election and having access to various state data bases containing personal information on in-state residents, i.e., driver’s license, voter rolls, tax returns, etc., can easily create a few thousand fraudulent mail-in ballots, per urban [populas] voting district, using that information, and introduce them into the system, e.g., ballot drop–box stuffing, with a slim to no chance of these ballots ever being detected when counted.


The truth is, because of the fatal flaw of no chain of custody with mail-in ballots, there is no practical way to verify if a mail-in ballot, when counted, was filled out, and the choices made thereon, were by a qualified voter who was issued the ballot. But when a person presents adequate ID at a polling station and enters the booth, there is certainty that person in that booth is filling out the ballot and checking the choices thereon.

Considering how government agencies, in just the past few years, have been used by some very notoriously evil folks in government to attack political opponents, and even now, at this very moment, are working to prevent a popular candidate from being on the ballot in a number of states, how can anyone even suggest they would not use the weaknesses in mail-in voting to rig an election?

If this weakness, a lack of chain of custody in mail-in voting, is not addressed immediately, our election process, which is our nation’s way for peaceful change, will be no better than that of Russia, China or Cuba, where there is one party authoritarian rule.

The bottom line is, our election process is at a tipping point headed for total corruption.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

All of this means naysayers, not the state, have to come up with faults in the system.

 

[johnwk]

All of this means naysayers, not the state, have to come up with faults in the system.

.