You do realize, don't you, that Satan does not reign in hell and does not control it? Hell was created as a place of punishment for him and his angels and demons fear being thrown into it. He will be punished just like those humans he led away from God.
Zone1 A bunch of verses that prove that ALL who ever existed will live in God's Kingdom!
- Thread starter Z99
- Start date
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
He loved them enough to die for them. He hopes that everyone accepts His gift to enter Heaven. Not all do. Here is a list of those who choose not to shed their sin and be covered in the blood of the Lamb, and instead embrace their sin:
1. anyone whose name is not written in the book of life
a. the cowardly
b. the faithless
c. the detestable
d. murders
e. the sexually immoral
f. the sorcerers
j. the idolaters
k. all liars
So, again:
FOR HOW LONG???
How long did Jesus say they would be there?
You are acting as though I made up that list! It wasn't me who made the rules. It was Jesus that gave us that list. Is there any way for you to debate a subject without relying on personal aspersions and insults? Let's rely on scripture instead.
Use scripture to prove your allegations that Jesus is wrong...
Last edited:
I do not understand those who rail against God's judgement when God Himself created a way to be made completely pure and righteous with no need to fear punishment. Basically, they're rejecting God's way and insisting they want their way instead.
Z99
Platinum Member
- Aug 30, 2024
- 685
- 566
- 888
- Thread starter
- #65
Jude 1:7 King James Version
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:7 Young's Literal Translation
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
We know that there is no "eternal fire" occurring in the area in and around the ancient ruins of Sodom and Gomorrha, which demonstrates that the use of the word "eternal" in Jude 1:7 is erroneous.
The YLT translation that I shared above is the correct translation. The ancient Koine Greek word that early Bible translators got wrong is "Ī±į¼°ĻĪ½ĪÆĪæĻ " or "aiÅniou". This word denotes an unspecified period of time that has been mistranslated into words such as "eternal", "everlasting", "forever", and even "world".
Here are scholarly explanations which better define "Ī±į¼°ĻĪ½ĪÆĪæĻ " or "aiÅniou" (and their derivatives).
Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible: Eternity: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in a philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8) or with various prepositions (Ge. 3:22; 13:15, etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated "forever," means, in itself, no more than "for an indefinitely long period." Thus, me-olam does not mean "from eternity," but "of old" (Ge 6:4, etc.). In the N.T., aion is used as the equivalent of olam.
The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth: Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.
The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643): Time: The O.T. and the N.T are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life;" then "age," "lifetime." It is, however, also used generally of a (limited or unlimited) long space of time. The use of the word aion is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means "long distant uninterrupted time" in the past (Luke 1:10), as well as in the future (John 4:14).
Ellicott's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46): Everlasting punishment-life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted (1) that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25), where the Greek is "from aeonian times;" our version giving "since the world began." (Comp. 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:3) -strictly speaking, therefore, the word, as such, apart from its association with any qualifying substantive, implies a vast undefined duration, rather than one in the full sense of the word "infinite."
Triglot Dictionary of Representative Words in Hebrew, Greek and English [this dictionary lists the words in this order: English, Greek, Hebrew] (p. 122): Eternal (see age-lasting). (p. 6): English: age-lasting; Greek, aionios; Hebrew, le-olam.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:7 Young's Literal Translation
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
We know that there is no "eternal fire" occurring in the area in and around the ancient ruins of Sodom and Gomorrha, which demonstrates that the use of the word "eternal" in Jude 1:7 is erroneous.
The YLT translation that I shared above is the correct translation. The ancient Koine Greek word that early Bible translators got wrong is "Ī±į¼°ĻĪ½ĪÆĪæĻ " or "aiÅniou". This word denotes an unspecified period of time that has been mistranslated into words such as "eternal", "everlasting", "forever", and even "world".
Here are scholarly explanations which better define "Ī±į¼°ĻĪ½ĪÆĪæĻ " or "aiÅniou" (and their derivatives).
Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible: Eternity: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in a philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8) or with various prepositions (Ge. 3:22; 13:15, etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated "forever," means, in itself, no more than "for an indefinitely long period." Thus, me-olam does not mean "from eternity," but "of old" (Ge 6:4, etc.). In the N.T., aion is used as the equivalent of olam.
The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth: Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.
The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643): Time: The O.T. and the N.T are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life;" then "age," "lifetime." It is, however, also used generally of a (limited or unlimited) long space of time. The use of the word aion is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means "long distant uninterrupted time" in the past (Luke 1:10), as well as in the future (John 4:14).
Ellicott's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46): Everlasting punishment-life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted (1) that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25), where the Greek is "from aeonian times;" our version giving "since the world began." (Comp. 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:3) -strictly speaking, therefore, the word, as such, apart from its association with any qualifying substantive, implies a vast undefined duration, rather than one in the full sense of the word "infinite."
Triglot Dictionary of Representative Words in Hebrew, Greek and English [this dictionary lists the words in this order: English, Greek, Hebrew] (p. 122): Eternal (see age-lasting). (p. 6): English: age-lasting; Greek, aionios; Hebrew, le-olam.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Apparently, you have judged Jesus as being too harsh on those sentenced to the Lake of Fire for eternally. I don't second guess a thing He does. His thoughts are way above our comprehension.
Z99
Platinum Member
- Aug 30, 2024
- 685
- 566
- 888
- Thread starter
- #67
Apparently, you have judged Jesus as being too harsh on those sentenced to the Lake of Fire for eternally. I don't second guess a thing He does. His thoughts are way above our comprehension.
If we ask nicely, will Jesus let you and me go into Jesus's eternal torture chamber to help him to hideously torture the bad people?
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
If a translation is less non-specific as the original, then look to see if the new translation changes the theme expressed by the original.
Does eternity still mean, day after day, forever and ever? < Because that scripture IS compatible with eternity.
Temporary conflicts with it.
Last edited:
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Still shunning scripture? Jesus says eternal, you say temporary. Which one should we believe?
Moonglow
Diamond Member
Where can I get a good sorcery home study kit?
Hogwarts, not here, so go away.
Moonglow
Diamond Member
No that's all made up like all the rest I have examined.
Well, that's where you'll find it, not here.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Don't know. Ask a Ouija Board...
Carl in Michigan
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2016
- 61,138
- 46,294
- 3,615
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
- Oct 21, 2014
- 20,317
- 4,368
- 165
"I never knew you..." doesn't seem to indicated, "No problem, we'll get to know each other later...."
My own experience is that I can't imagine anyone resisting God's love and wanting to live apart from serving Him. God judges the heart, and it is God who determines what is the heart. If the heart is evil and has no room for love of God, I cannot imagine God beating/burning this evil out of someone who makes the choice of evil and/or selfishness over service to others. Is our final choice of God or self made after we pass on? Some say scripture indicates no, and they have a valid point. However, can the heart truly make its final choice without at least having more knowledge of the afterlife and our eternal choices?
Catholic teaching is that 'hell' is one's chosen path to live apart from God, have no part of God's way, God's love, or of service to God. I believe that choice is open to everyone. For me it is hard to believe that anyone would find it possible to say no to God's love. But then, I do not know the hearts of all of mankind.
Matthew 12:31-32
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Those who commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost cannot receive forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. So there appears to be a sin which if committed will keep you from ever receiving salvation.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Those who commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost cannot receive forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. So there appears to be a sin which if committed will keep you from ever receiving salvation.
Similar threads
