Zone1 A bunch of verses that prove that ALL who ever existed will live in God's Kingdom!

You misunderstand.
Actually, misunderstanding the scriptures quoted in the OP has lead to a wrong conclusion. Of course God doesn't want to lose any soul. Of course Christ died for all. Of course God is compassionate.
Those scriptures are all true and all taken out of context. It's not refuting scripture, it is refuting the presumption that everyone is Heaven bound.
That conjecture can be easily refuted:

Rev. 21:8 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
^
Because the punishment for sin is death. < The second death. Those people ^ instead of accepting Christ's gift and having their sins nailed to His cross, never to be remembered again by God, chose to die attached to their sin. And we are told of their offenses and their sentence.

So, first refute that ^ to prove your theory. Then we can move on to the other scriptures that refer to the location of those who follow God and the location of those who follow their father, Satan...
 
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I take it that you're a Satanist based on your avatar. Correct?
No, Im an atheist who is open to the possibility of religion, but there are certain things that are just too silly to buy into.
 
I believe that we all existed before coming to this world and were among those who were valiant in the war in heaven. To me, Hell will be having a bright recollection of our premortal existence and how we were once faithful and desired to come to earth and be faithful and yet find ourselves to have betrayed the Christ in this life and refused all that God offered us here. I don't think hell is a punishment so much as it is an eternal regret. Once we come to a realization that we rejected God and loved sin more than righteousness, we will have to live with the outcome of our choices. Those who have committed the most heinous of sins will live in a mental torment that is like unto a lake of fire and brimstone. Knowing what they could have had but that they were never willing to accept it. I don't think that God literally sets their eternal being on fire and has them burn in actual fire and flames. It is a metaphor for the mental anguish they will realize when they see that they could have had a better existence in eternity than what they chose for themselves. I don't think that the scriptures tell us whether or not there is any progression after this earth's judgement but it may be a possibility. However, if there is not, it is best not to bank on the unknown and trust that if we make good choices in this life we can progress to highest degree in the heavens.
 
Actually, misunderstanding the scriptures quoted in the OP has lead to a wrong conclusion. Of course God doesn't want to lose any soul. Of course Christ died for all. Of course God is compassionate.
Those scriptures are all true and all taken out of context. It's not refuting scripture, it is refuting the presumption that everyone is Heaven bound.
That conjecture can be easily refuted:

Rev. 21:8 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
^
Because the punishment for sin is death. < The second death. Those people ^ instead of accepting Christ's gift and having their sins nailed to His cross, never to be remembered again by God, chose to die attached to their sin. And we are told of their offenses and their sentence.

So, first refute that ^ to prove your theory. Then we can move on to the other scriptures that refer to the location of those who follow God and the location of those who follow their father, Satan...

The righteous die only once and go to Heaven. The wicked die once on Earth and then "die" a second time as they are cast into the LOF. However, they don't remain there forever.
 
I don'tbelieve so.

The "Lake of Fire" is a used in the Bible as a metaphor to describe a metallurgist's crucible, which is essentially a bowl used for refining metals. I believe that the LOF is more a process than a destination. The Bible doesn't explain what occurs there but we can surmise that it is a process of refinement and restoration. It may also be described as a "chastening", meaning punishment but punishment for the purpose of correction. It is done for the BENEFIT of the truly wicked so that they too can follow Jesus into God's Kingdom.
So, Satan, and the demons are being refined? Then what? A Lake is not a bowl. Don't surmise instead just read.
The Universalists had to remove scripture, and replace it with a human understanding that is not backed by scripture to come up with the "refinement theory".
Day after day, forever and forever means just what it says. Lucifer is never refined or pardoned, or let out of the Lake of Fire after he promises to be good. Nor is anyone else have their sentence commuted. Satan is never referenced again as walking to and fro here on earth, He is permanently restrained. There is no scripture that supports the refinement concept. It simply is not Biblical.
 
So, Satan, and the demons are being refined? Then what? A Lake is not a bowl. Don't surmise instead just read.
The Universalists had to remove scripture, and replace it with a human understanding that is not backed by scripture to come up with the "refinement theory".
Day after day, forever and forever means just what it says. Lucifer is never refined or pardoned, or let out of the Lake of Fire after he promises to be good. Nor is anyone else have their sentence commuted. Satan is never referenced again as walking to and fro here on earth, He is permanently restrained. There is no scripture that supports the refinement concept. It simply is not Biblical.

Forever punishment wasn't in the original scriptures.

Anyway, so you think that our all-loving God created sentient beings knowing that he would torture many of them forever? You make God into a sadistic monster.

Does God want all people to be saved? Does God get what God wants?
 
I already did, a plethora of them.
Humor me. I just showed up. Find the scripture that says Satan is refined. Or more importantly, that the sentences are commuted. The punishment for sin is a second eternal death. If God didn't abide by the Rule of Law, Satan could accuse God of not being 100% just, and therefore not perfect. But God is.

According to Jesus, we are eternal beings. And the difference in the afterlife is where we spend it, eternally. It is not all in the same place.
But it is eternal. If not, then Jesus is a liar. I was going to list a bunch of scriptures about what is eternal. But then I thought, Why not just let Jesus say it, and end all doubt:

Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
.
 
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Humor me. I just showed up. Find the scripture that says Satan is refined. Or more importantly, that the sentences are commuted. The punishment for sin is a second eternal death. If God didn't abide by the Rule of Law, Satan could accuse God of not being 100% just, and therefore not perfect. But God is.

According to Jesus, we are eternal beings. And the difference in the afterlife is where we spend it, eternally. It is not all in the same place
But it is eternal. If not, then Jesus is a liar. I was going to list a bunch of scriptures about eternal. But then I thought, Why not just let Jesus say it, and end all doubt:

Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
.

A few observations. You like asking questions but you're unwilling to answer them. You wish to persuade but you are unwilling to be persuaded. You are trying to win a debate and are unwilling to consider the possibility that you're understanding of God isn't infallible.
 
Is there anybody here who is on the fence regarding this topic and who would like to learn more?
 
Forever punishment wasn't in the original scriptures.

Anyway, so you think that our all-loving God created sentient beings knowing that he would torture many of them forever? You make God into a sadistic monster.

Does God want all people to be saved? Does God get what God wants?
^ these questions? Yes. Yes, No.
There ya go.

Now you. Find the scripture to back up your assumption that the Lake of Fire is temporary, and not eternal, and that those in it get their sentences commuted.
 
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^ these questions? Yes. Yes, No.
There ya go.

Now you. Find the scripture to back up your assumption that the Lake of Fire is temporary, and not eternal, and that those in it get their sentences commuted.

So you believe that Jesus runs a forever version of a Nazi torture chamber that makes Auschwitz look like a weekend retreat. Amazing.

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Genesis 12:3 --- All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham.
Genesis 22:18 --- All nations on earth will be blessed through Abraham’s offspring.
Psalms 22:27 --- All the ends of the earth and all the families of the nations will acknowledge God.
Psalms 65:2 --- All men will come to God.
Psalms 86:9 --- All nations will worship and glorify God.
Psalms 103:8-9 --- God is compassionate, will not always accuse and will not be angry forever.
Psalms 145:9-10 --- The Lord has compassion on all His creation and all He has made will praise Him.
Psalms 145:13 --- The Lord loves all His creation.
Psalms 145:14 --- The Lord upholds all who fall.
Isaiah 25:6-8 --- God will prepare a feast for all people, He will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers up all nations. He will eliminate death, wipe away the tears from all faces and remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth.
Isaiah 45:22-23 --- God has sworn an oath that every knee will bow before Him and every tongue will swear by Him.
Isaiah 49:6 --- God’s salvation will be brought to the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 54:8 --- Although God will hide His face in a surge of anger, He will also have compassion with everlasting kindness.
Isaiah 57:16-18 --- God’s anger is not permanent. Although He punishes man, He will heal, guide and restore comfort to him.
Jeremiah 31:33-34 --- All men will know God, from the greatest to the least.
Lamentations 3:31-33 --- The Lord does not cast off forever. Although He brings grief, he will also be compassionate.
Ezekiah 18:21 --- God does not any pleasure in the death of the wicked. Rather, He is pleased when they repent.
Micah 7:18 --- God does not stay angry forever.
Matthew 18:13 --- Like the man who owes a hundred sheep and is not willing to lose even one, God is not willing that any one be lost.
Luke 2:10 --- The birth of Jesus is good news for all the people.
Luke 3: 5, 6 --- John the Baptist quotes Isaiah’s words that all mankind will see God’s salvation.
John 1:29 --- Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
John 3:35 --- God sent Jesus to save the world.
John 4:42 --- God has committed all things to Christ.
John 5:25 --- Even the dead will hear the sound of Christ and all who hear will live.
John 6:37 --- Everything that God has given to Christ will come to him.
John 12:32 --- When Jesus is lifted up from the earth, he will draw all men to himself.
John 12:47 --- Jesus came to save the world.
John 17:2 --- God granted Christ authority over all people so that Christ may give eternal life to all that God has given him.
Acts 3:20-21 --- Jesus must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything.
Romans 3:3-4 --- The unbelief of some will not nullify God’s faithfulness.
Romans 5:18 --- The act of obedience of one man (Jesus) will bring life for all men.
Romans 8:19-21 --- Creation itself will be liberated and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Romans 8:38-39 --- Nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ.
Romans 11:32 --- God made all people imprisoned by disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 --- All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all his enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.
2 Corinthians 5:15 --- Christ died for all.
2 Corinthians 5:19 --- Through Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself.
Ephesians 1:11 --- God will bring all things under heaven and on earth under Christ.
Ephesians 4:10 --- Christ ascended higher then all the heavens to fill the whole universe.
Philippians. 2:9-11 --- Every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord (In 1 Corinthians 12:3, Paul writes that no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit)
Colossians 1: 19-20 --- God was pleased to reconcile to Himself, all things on earth and in heaven through the blood of Christ.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 --- God wants all men to be saved and to know the truth. Can God’s desire be thwarted?
1 Timothy 4:10 --- God is the Saviour of all men, especially (not exclusively) those who believe.
Titus 2:11-12 --- God’s grace, which brings salvation has appeared to all men.
Hebrews 2:9 --- Jesus tasted death for everyone.
1 John 2:2 --- Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only ours but of the sins of the whole world.
1 John 3:8 --- Christ appeared to destroy the devil’s works.
1 John 4:14 --- Christ is the Saviour of the world.
Revelation 5:13 --- Every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea will sing praises to him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb (Christ).
Revelation 21:4-5 --- God will dwell with men and he will wipe every tear from their eyes, death, mourning, crying, pain and the old order of things will pass and everything will be made new.

If you believe this, your god is a god of "mercy" but not of justice.
 
Two questions.

Does God want all people to be saved?
Does God get what God wants?

The answer to both is YES! Don't take my word for it; the Bible says so!

Refute the scriptures. You're a heretic.
Since you're trying to make the case, it would be right for you to quote the Scriptures to which you are referring. Be my guest.
 
If you believe this, your god is a god of "mercy" but not of justice.

Do you not believe that Jesus is not willing and capable of persuading the wicked to repent and follow him? That's exactly what is going to happen.

This verse here says that EVERY tongue will declare that Jesus is Lord. ALL will joyfully follow Jesus!

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Since you're trying to make the case, it would be right for you to quote the Scriptures to which you are referring. Be my guest.

I did, several times over. Here they are again.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 esv
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Isaiah 46:10
declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.

Isaiah 55:11
so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
 
I did, several times over. Here they are again.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 esv
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Isaiah 46:10
declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.

Isaiah 55:11
so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Matt 25:
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,

Rev 3:
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Rev 20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

It is very plain by these Scriptures that there will be many who will not be accepted into glory with God but will be thrown out. Without free will, there would be no need for the Bible, no need for preaching, no need to follow the great commission, no need for judgement, no need for any of that, so your claim that Scripture backs up your idea is false on its face. If God is simply going to accept everyone anyway, there would be no need for any of this.
 
Do you not believe that Jesus is not willing and capable of persuading the wicked to repent and follow him? That's exactly what is going to happen.

This verse here says that EVERY tongue will declare that Jesus is Lord. ALL will joyfully follow Jesus!

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Where does it indicate they will do so joyfully? It doesn't. Everyone will be forced to so acknowledge, but for those for whom it is the first and only time they do it, there will be no change in their fate. As I've already said, if God's just going to force everyone to live with Him for eternity, there's no need for the Scriptures at all.

And what will you do with all those Scriptures that indicate the exact opposite of what you claim?
 
Z99, Thanks for this thread. I never thought that it made sense that not everyone would be saved.

I believe that in the end, God‘s victory over Satan will be total and complete. It won’t be a lipsided score, it will be a shut out.

If even one of God‘s creatures were to be given over to Satan forever, that would be a comfort to Lucifer. Believe that every soul will return to God then I believe that Lucifer himself will admit defeat and begin worshiping the true God once again.

Thank you for providing biblical back up for what until now I have thought was my own off-the-wall interpretation.
 

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