A bit more of your merciful god.

[Blues Man]

Redemption/salvation are for all to accept or reject.

REally?

So you think your god will offer a long time atheist who would never acknowledge any god the same gift of salvation as it would a devout and pious follower?

 

[Blues Man]

It is a poor analogy about God because I was not talking or even thinking about God when I wrote it. I am talking about you and whether you would turn away from a loved one once they developed Alzheimer's because there was no longer "equity" between you. (Take note of how often I used a version of 'you' in that post.)

We are talking about the disparity between gods and mortals.

There is no such disparity between humans.

 

[Meriweather]

You keep trying to compare an omniscient omnipoten being to humans which indicates to me that you can't imagine the vast and irreconcilable differences between the two

You may wish to read more closely. I have not and do not compare God to humans. Remember when I said the two are as far apart as the East is from the West?

Another bit of information you obviously skipped over is the earlier note where I said I had a tremendous imagination. (We were talking about how I could also tell the difference between the real and the imaginary.)

Blues Man, not only do you think of the Divine in a way that suits you, you are doing the same with me. You are not seeing me. You are seeing a person who suits you.

 

[Blues Man]

This is hilarious. You know nothing about chinchillas, do you? They have no feelings at all for me, let alone adoration. Doesn't mean we can't find other ways to relate, even though I have an attachment to them they do not have for me.

My point is both human beings and the Divine have an ability to relate to others. Our love is not limited to our equals. Our service is not limited to our equals. Nor is our love.

You can love anything you want to love.

Just because you love something in no way means that you have a relationship.

Humans cannot relate to gods because we have and will never have any concept of the depth and breadth or their minds or abilities.

 

[Meriweather]

To get back to the topic at hand, why do the same people who complain that God takes drastic steps to stop evil honor and applaud man for devastating entire countries and killing untold numbers of innocents to stop evil?

Reminds me of that Chinese (I think) proverb of the man who had a son who was farming. It went something like this (it is not exact). The farmer had a good year, and someone said to his father, "How fortunate your son is; he made a great deal of money." The father said, "We will wait and see whether or not he was fortunate." The son bought new farm animals, one which kicked him and broke his leg. The neighbor said, "How unfortunate!" The father said, "We will wait and see whether it was unfortunate or fortunate." The military came through the village, gathering up all the able-bodied young men to go to war. They rejected taking the son. The neighbor said, "How fortunate!" The father said....(we know.)

The point is, some people do not reflect on the fortunate parts that may come from disaster.

 

[Meriweather]

And many who reject it will be upset when God rejects them.

I see it a bit differently. What God is offering us is a way of living this life, and some reject it. At some point in their lives, they may regret not making a different choice that is based on what they have learned living by the choices they did make.

I believe God honors our choices. If people are satisfied with a life without God, an afterlife without God may be equally as satisfying to them.

 

[Blues Man]

Reminds me of that Chinese (I think) proverb of the man who had a son who was farming. It went something like this (it is not exact). The farmer had a good year, and someone said to his father, "How fortunate your son is; he made a great deal of money." The father said, "We will wait and see whether or not he was fortunate." The son bought new farm animals, one which kicked him and broke his leg. The neighbor said, "How unfortunate!" The father said, "We will wait and see whether it was unfortunate or fortunate." The military came through the village, gathering up all the able-bodied young men to go to war. They rejected taking the son. The neighbor said, "How fortunate!" The father said....(we know.)

The point is, some people do not reflect on the fortunate parts that may come from disaster.

That is a Taoist story meant to illustrate the futility of labeling events as "good" or "bad" and to help explain the concept of nondualism. If you name the good you necessarily create the bad because one cannot exist without the other.

The old story about the monkey's paw with its message of "be careful what you wish for" is, I think a direct derivative of that story.

 

[Meriweather]

REally?

So you think your god will offer a long time atheist who would never acknowledge any god the same gift of salvation as it would a devout and pious follower?

Absolutely. Jesus tells a parable of a man who found a great treasure in a field, and sold all he had to purchase the field with the treasure. (Our treasure being a place in the Kingdom of God.) Then Jesus flips the parable to the Kingdom searching for great treasure (people) to bring into the Kingdom. Some people do not recognize what great treasures they are, but the Kingdom does.

There have always been atheists in my life. They cannot believe in God. What all the ones who are close to me do believe is a Way of life that is kind, loving, and fair. They may not be able to see, recognize, believe in God, but they are sure faithful to His Ways, simply because it is right. Another teaching of Jesus: Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after what is right, for they shall have their fill.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no such disparity between humans.

You see no great difference between humans? I think we must live on different planets. I have seen, not to mention lived, with these great differences.

 

[Meriweather]

Humans cannot relate to gods because we have and will never have any concept of the depth and breadth or their minds or abilities.

One can certainly limit oneself to this idea. It is a great example of the Settler vs Pioneer/Explorer analogy. Some people choose to settle early, and some choose to explore further.

 

[Blues Man]

Absolutely. Jesus tells a parable of a man who found a great treasure in a field, and sold all he had to purchase the field with the treasure. (Our treasure being a place in the Kingdom of God.) Then Jesus flips the parable to the Kingdom searching for great treasure (people) to bring into the Kingdom. Some people do not recognize what great treasures they are, but the Kingdom does.

There have always been atheists in my life. They cannot believe in God. What all the ones who are close to me do believe is a Way of life that is kind, loving, and fair. They may not be able to see, recognize, believe in God, but they are sure faithful to His Ways, simply because it is right. Another teaching of Jesus: Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after what is right, for they shall have their fill.

The idea of living with other humans in productive ways was around long before the bible.

As societies developed and more people lived together in fixed locations it was realized pretty quickly that behaviors once accepted in nomadic tribes would lead to disorder and the failure and dissolution of that society.

There is no divine message needed for this societal evolution

 

[Blues Man]

You see no great difference between humans? I think we must live on different planets. I have seen, not to mention lived, with these great differences.

People are different only superficially

We all have the capability to do what other people do. We all understand that to master an activity that it takes study and practice. That does not mean we will all enjoy the same activities or even the same intellectual subjects but the capacity for all those is the same among all humans.

How can a human relate to a being that can effortlessly make and unmake universes and who knows the answer to every question that can ever be raised?

 

[Blues Man]

One can certainly limit oneself to this idea. It is a great example of the Settler vs Pioneer/Explorer analogy. Some people choose to settle early, and some choose to explore further.

Nice backhanded compliment.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no divine message needed for this societal evolution

There is no need for me, either. (Or any of us.) Yet here we are. Your lack of need for God and lack of belief in God does not affect His existence. What I find curious is your lack of a relationship with God has you so certain that no one else has met up with God, either.

 

[Blues Man]

There is no need for me, either. (Or any of us.) Yet here we are. Your lack of need for God and lack of belief in God does not affect His existence. What I find curious is your lack of a relationship with God has you so certain that no one else has met up with God, either.

Since there is absolutely no way to prove a person has met a god I have no reason to think they have.

 

[Meriweather]

We all have the capability to do what other people do.

Never taught, worked with students with severe physical, emotional, mental disabilities have you? Never volunteered in residences for senior citizens, either have you? Heads up. Why don't you try it. Go in and tell these people they have the capabilities to do what others their age are doing.

 

[Meriweather]

Nice backhanded compliment.

Sigh. Simple observations/realities are not even compliments, let alone a certain kind of compliment. However, I am happy if you feel you received a compliment over a statement was merely an observation about all of humanity.

 

[Meriweather]

Since there is absolutely no way to prove a person has met a god I have no reason to think they have.

Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them. (Richard Bach)

 

[Blues Man]

Never taught, worked with students with severe physical, emotional, mental disabilities have you? Never volunteered in residences for senior citizens, either have you? Heads up. Why don't you try it. Go in and tell these people they have the capabilities to do what others their age are doing.

I am assuming we are talking about you average human being without any type of birth defects.

Of course I don't think a person born with microcephaly for example is capable of what I am capable of or that a person born with no arms or legs is physically capable of what i am.

Do you really think I am that dimwitted?

Do we need to now agree on an exhaustive list of defined terms so this conversation can continue?

 

[Blues Man]

Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them. (Richard Bach)

I don't see wanting proof as a limitation it is in fact a very liberating thing to have.