Zone1 A big step in eradicating systemic racism, and 2/3rds of Americans approve

[Lisa558]

School administrators will always find ways to admit blacks who by every objective, measurable criterion are less intelligent than the least intelligent non blacks they admit. Those blacks will find they can't do the work, so they will drop out, flunk out, or major in useless puff courses like black studies.

The university will still deposit their tuition into the bank, and brag about having a student body that "looks like America."

I am looking forward to a Supreme Court decision against affirmative action in hiring decisions. Few managers like to be pressured by the government to hire unqualified blacks.

Diversity, equate, and inclusion are the enemies of merit, qualifications, and excellence.

The preference for diversity over merit as a determining factor in whom to admit to a prestigious college or, worse, to the military will be the biggest reason for the country’s decline. I believe this is what Democrats want, just fyi, which is why they continue to push it.

 

[Hector12]

They are not racist. They are restorative.

What are they restoring?

 

[Lisa558]

What are they restoring?

Wow. EXCELLENT question.

 

[Hector12]

The preference for diversity over merit as a determining factor in whom to admit to a prestigious college or, worse, to the military will be the biggest reason for the country’s decline. I believe this is what Democrats want, just fyi, which is why they continue to push it.

Democrats do not want the decline of America. Many make well meaning mistakes on behalf of ideals that cannot be achieved, given intrinsic restrictions on human nature and human potential.

Ardent Democrats and ardent Republicans are equally prone to disregard facts they wish were not true.

 

[Hector12]

When looking at grade averages we should keep in mind that a good grade average in a black majority school means less than a good grade average where there are few blacks and many Jews and East Asians.

By the way, I am neither black, Jewish, nor East Asian.

 

[Lisa558]

Democrats do not want the decline in America. Many make well meaning mistakes on behalf of ideals that cannot be achieved, given intrinsic restrictions on human nature and human potential.

Ardent Democrats and ardent Republicans are equally prone to disregard facts they wish were not true.

By Democrats, I mean the elected representatives. They want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism. That is why they are punishing responsible, self-supporting people….incentivizing irresponsible behavior….pushing big spending bills during high inflation….and allowing millions of illegal immigrants to overwhelm the system. (I’m in DC, and they’re out of hotel rooms for them. It’s awful as they camp out on the streets.) Then, when the system crashes to the extent people can’t afford to hear their homes and buy groceries, they will be amendable to switching to more socialist-type policies.

IMO.

 

[Lisa558]

When looking at grade averages we should keep in mind that a good grade average in a black majority school means less than a good grade average where there are few blacks and many Jews and East Asians.

By the way, I am neither black, Jewish, nor East Asian.

That’s why we had a STANDARDIZED admissions test - and why the leftists are increasingly abolishing it. It shows the big difference between average SAT scores among blacks and Jews and East Asians (and whites, as well).

 

[Hector12]

By Democrats, I mean the elected representatives. They want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

Gallup AUGUST 13, 2018

Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism​

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- For the first time in Gallup's measurement over the past decade, Democrats have a more positive image of socialism than they do of capitalism. Attitudes toward socialism among Democrats have not changed materially since 2010, with 57% today having a positive view. The major change among Democrats has been a less upbeat attitude toward capitalism, dropping to 47% positive this year -- lower than in any of the three previous measures.

Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism

Democrats' positive views of capitalism have dropped significantly, and Democrats now view socialism more positively.

news.gallup.com

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Democrats who prefer socialism to capitalism do not want to destroy America; they want to improve it. By claiming that Democrats who prefer socialism to capitalism desire the decline of the United States you are committing the Straw Man Fallacy. In the Straw Man Fallacy one distorts the opinion of an opponent in order to make it easier to refute.

One can only be said to understand a point of view if one can express that point of view in such a way that those who adhere to the point of view will agree that the expression is an accurate description of what they believe.

Speaking for myself I am strongly opposed to Communism, weakly opposed to American capitalism, and I prefer social democracy.

 

[Hector12]

That’s why we had a STANDARDIZED admissions test - and why the leftists are increasingly abolishing it. It shows the big difference between average SAT scores among blacks and Jews and East Asians (and whites, as well).

Speaking for myself, I did well on the standardized tests.

My grade average was nothing to brag about.

I have always learned best on my own.

 

[Lisa558]

Gallup AUGUST 13, 2018

Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism​

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- For the first time in Gallup's measurement over the past decade, Democrats have a more positive image of socialism than they do of capitalism. Attitudes toward socialism among Democrats have not changed materially since 2010, with 57% today having a positive view. The major change among Democrats has been a less upbeat attitude toward capitalism, dropping to 47% positive this year -- lower than in any of the three previous measures.

Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism

Democrats' positive views of capitalism have dropped significantly, and Democrats now view socialism more positively.

news.gallup.com

----------

Democrats who prefer socialism to capitalism do not want to destroy America; they want to improve it. By claiming that Democrats who prefer socialism to capitalism desire the decline of the United States you are committing the Straw Man Fallacy. In the Straw Man Fallacy one distorts the opinion of an opponent in order to make it easier to refute.

One can only be said to understand a point of view if one can express that point of view in such a way that those who adhere to the point of view will agree that the expression is an accurate description of what they believe.

Speaking for myself I am strongly opposed to Communism, weakly opposed to American capitalism, and I prefer social democracy.

That assumes you think that socialism is an improvement upon capitalism. It’s a bad system and destroys what has made America great - reward for individual traits and abilities that lead one to success.

 

[Hector12]

That assumes you think that socialism is an improvement upon capitalism. It’s a bad system and destroys what has made America great - reward for individual traits and abilities that lead one to success.

That is easy for you to say because you have been fortunate in life.

Beyond a certain point I see little moral significance in the distribution of wealth and income. Hard work, honesty, and decency will keep one off of welfare and out of prison. They will not make one rich. Many rich people, like Donald Trump for example, have none of those qualities.

Social democracy is the closest approximation to democratic socialism that works.

I do not want the government, even a democratically elected government, to own all of the corporations, companies, and small businesses. I do want the U.S. economy to move in a socialist direction. Like most Americans I want a more progressive tax system. Like many I want socialized medicine. I like strict environmental regulations, strong labor unions and a high minimum wage.

 

[Lisa558]

That is easy for you to say because you have been fortunate in life.

I say that because I’ve seen first-hand that with motivation, intelligence, and hard work, people can rise from abject poverty to the middle class in a single generation. The millions of impoverished Jews arriving on these shores from the persecution of Europe and Russia proved that. They didn’t get welfare, food stamps, child tax credits, subsidized housing, free lunch at school, etc., etc.

Beyond a certain point I see little moral significance in the distribution of wealth and income. Hard work, honesty, and decency will keep one off of welfare and out of prison. They will not make one rich. Many rich people, like Donald Trump for example, have none of those qualities.

So who says people are entitled to be rich? But hard work, honesty, and decency - combined with the responsibility to get some job training - does more than keep one off welfare and out of prison. It moves one into the lower-middle class, at least. If one wants more than that, he can complete college with a STEM degree, or a very marketable major like accounting, and become upper-middle class (assuming the right personal traits).

Social democracy is the closest approximation to democratic socialism that works.

I do not want the government, even a democratically elected government, to own all of the corporations, companies, and small businesses. I do want the U.S. economy to move in a socialist direction. Like most Americans I want a more progressive tax system. Like many I want socialized medicine. I like strict environmental regulations, strong labor unions and a high minimum wage.

The tax code is already extremely progressive, with the bottom half paying virtually nothing into the Federal government and the top 10% paying about 80%.

Even worse than not paying in, about a third of Americans are taking OUT - via welfare benefits. Why shouldn’t able-bodied adults be required to at least get a job and pitch in to support their own families, rather than relying fully on OPM?

 

[Hector12]

I say that because I’ve seen first-hand that with motivation, intelligence, and hard work, people can rise from abject poverty to the middle class in a single generation. The millions of impoverished Jews arriving on these shores from the persecution of Europe and Russia proved that. They didn’t get welfare, food stamps, child tax credits, subsidized housing, free lunch at school, etc., etc.

The average IQ of a Jew is 115. Talent and luck mean more in life than hard work.

 

[task0778]

The admitted students still must meet the academic criteria for admissions. Race cannot be the sole or main factor, but it can be one of many factors to consider.

IMHO, race should not be a factor at all. When a black student is admitted over a more qualified student of another color then how can anyone say that race was not the driving factor? And that a more qualified student that wasn't admitted may be a minority student of another race. What I hear is that Asian kids are the ones taking it in the shorts. That just ain't right. It flies in the face of equality of opportunity and is an affirmation of discrimination for some people and against others and I cannot support that.

Now I agree Dems and Repubs differ on what equality means: equality of outcome or equality at the start. Both have pros and cons.

I do not see any 'pro' for equality of outcome, that is (sorry) crap. Some people outperform others and should receive more compensation for that, while others underperform and should receive less, and the reasons why either case occurs is irrelevant. The gov't should never be allowed to pick winners and losers, that is the antithesis of equal justice for all. If a private university or company wants to promote some form of affirmative action, so be it but the gov't should not be sudsidizing such programs IMHO.

Higher Ed has traditionally been a driver of economic success and upward mobility.

You don't have to be admitted to Harvard to achieve economic success and upward mobility, because it's not the school that goes out into the world to earn a living, it's the individual. You are promoting a sense of entitlement based on race where you are telling black people that you are not smart enough or good enough to make it on your own merits so we'll cheat somebody else. We'll lower the bar just for you; why? Pity? Guilt? Whose fault is it when a black kid doesn't clear the same bar that someone else did, and now that person gets screwed. I think people of any race or creed can become successful and give back to their communities without discrimination for or against anybody. IOW, the answer is not to lower the bar for some, it's to address the reasons why black kids are not achieving the same academic results that others are.

 

[Hector12]

The tax code is already extremely progressive, with the bottom half paying virtually nothing into the Federal government and the top 10% paying about 80%.

The overall tax system is mildly progressive.

Most Americans agree with me that the tax system should be steeply progressive.

poll + taxes + rich - Google Search

When it was, the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) declined from 114% when the Second World War ended in 1945, to 32% during President Carter's last year in office in 1980. Because of Republican tax cuts for the rich it grew to 129% during Trump's last year in office, but it declined to 123% after two years under President Biden.

U.S. National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt grew to a record $34 trillion by the end of 2023. It was just $16 billion in 1930.

www.thebalancemoney.com

The following chart demonstrates that most Americans did not benefit when President Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%.

 

[Lisa558]

The average IQ of a Jew is 115. Talent and luck mean more in life than hard work.

So some people don‘t have the innate talents and skills of others. That doesn’t mean that hard work, together with the responsibility of preparing for a trade (which is paid for by taxpayers), won’t get someone to the lower-middle class.

Unless you’re saying that a “average intelligence” HVAC repairman who took a 6-month certificate to learn his trade and now earning $70,000 should have money redistributed to him from the bright, studious guy who earned a tuition-paid college education, got a BSE in Engineering, went to grad school at nights for his master’s, and now earns $150,000.

People have different natural abilities, willingness to sacrifice and delay gratification, motivation levels, and motivation, and this we will always have (or should have) a working-class working the trades and a professional class earning double or triple. Such is life.

 

[Lisa558]

The overall tax system is mildly progressive.

View attachment 782415

Most Americans agree with me that the tax system should be steeply progressive.

poll + taxes + rich - Google Search

When it was, the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) declined from 114% when the Second World War ended in 1945, to 32% during President Carter's last year in office in 1980. Because of Republican tax cuts for the rich it grew to 129% during Trump's last year in office, but it declined to 123% after two years under President Biden.

U.S. National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt grew to a record $34 trillion by the end of 2023. It was just $16 billion in 1930.

www.thebalancemoney.com

The following chart demonstrates that most Americans did not benefit when President Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%.

View attachment 782418

I didn’t read beyond your chart. You’re muddying the waters by lumping all types of tax together. I’m speaking of federal income taxes, which you know, and it is WRONG for half the country to not have to pay a cent in.

 

[Hector12]

So some people don‘t have the innate talents and skills of others. That doesn’t mean that hard work, together with the responsibility of preparing for a trade (which is paid for by taxpayers), won’t get someone to the lower-middle class.

Unless you’re saying that a “average intelligence” HVAC repairman who took a 6-month certificate to learn his trade and now earning $70,000 should have money redistributed to him from the bright, studious guy who earned a tuition-paid college education, got a BSE in Engineering, went to grad school at nights for his master’s, and now earns $150,000.

People have different natural abilities, willingness to sacrifice and delay gratification, motivation levels, and motivation, and this we will always have (or should have) a working-class working the trades and a professional class earning double or triple. Such is life.

What you say is partly true. We do not need this:

Oxfam International:

Published: 16th January 2023

• Super-rich outstrip their extraordinary grab of half of all new wealth in past decade.
• Billionaire fortunes are increasing by $2.7 billion a day even as at least 1.7 billion workers now live in countries where inflation is outpacing wages.
• A tax of up to 5 percent on the world’s multi-millionaires and billionaires could raise $1.7 trillion a year, enough to lift 2 billion people out of poverty.

The richest 1 percent grabbed nearly two-thirds of all new wealth worth $42 trillion created since 2020, almost twice as much money as the bottom 99 percent of the world’s population, reveals a new Oxfam report today. During the past decade, the richest 1 percent had captured around half of all new wealth...

While ordinary people are making daily sacrifices on essentials like food, the super-rich have outdone even their wildest dreams. Just two years in, this decade is shaping up to be the best yet for billionaires...

It’s time we demolish the convenient myth that tax cuts for the richest result in their wealth somehow ‘trickling down’ to everyone else. Forty years of tax cuts for the super-rich have shown that a rising tide doesn’t lift all ships —just the superyachts.

Richest 1% bag nearly twice as much wealth as the rest of the world put together over the past two years | Oxfam International.

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Speaking for myself, I do not care about welfare recipients. I do care about working class and middle class Americans.

 

[Hector12]

I didn’t read beyond your chart. You’re muddying the waters by lumping all types of tax together. I’m speaking of federal income taxes, which you know, and it is WRONG for half the country to not have to pay a cent in.

You are muddying the waters by assuming that non income taxes do not exist. What is wrong is that so much wealth is concentrated at the top, while decent working people in at least the bottom half are struggling.

Because issues of right and wrong are normative, what matters is that most Americans agree with me.

 

[Lisa558]

What you say is partly true. We do not need this:

Oxfam International:

Published: 16th January 2023

• Super-rich outstrip their extraordinary grab of half of all new wealth in past decade.
• Billionaire fortunes are increasing by $2.7 billion a day even as at least 1.7 billion workers now live in countries where inflation is outpacing wages.
• A tax of up to 5 percent on the world’s multi-millionaires and billionaires could raise $1.7 trillion a year, enough to lift 2 billion people out of poverty.

The richest 1 percent grabbed nearly two-thirds of all new wealth worth $42 trillion created since 2020, almost twice as much money as the bottom 99 percent of the world’s population, reveals a new Oxfam report today. During the past decade, the richest 1 percent had captured around half of all new wealth...

While ordinary people are making daily sacrifices on essentials like food, the super-rich have outdone even their wildest dreams. Just two years in, this decade is shaping up to be the best yet for billionaires...

It’s time we demolish the convenient myth that tax cuts for the richest result in their wealth somehow ‘trickling down’ to everyone else. Forty years of tax cuts for the super-rich have shown that a rising tide doesn’t lift all ships —just the superyachts.

Richest 1% bag nearly twice as much wealth as the rest of the world put together over the past two years | Oxfam International.

---------

Speaking for myself, I do not care about welfare recipients. I do care about working class and middle class Americans.

I do agree that the wage discrepancy at the very, very top is too extreme. I worked at the senior manager/director level for a Fortune 100, and the CEO got close to $30 million per year once you factor in the stock options.

I also care about the working class and middle class, but how we view supporting them is different. I think what the Dems are doing now is making life very, very hard for the backbone of America by inflating prices and making things harder for the businesses (which ends up hurting employees and investors alike).