CDZ 5 Reasons Milton Freedman Supported Guaranteed Income for Families

[flacaltenn]

Another unintended side effect would be making the "income gap" higher as low wage workers take "part time work" to qualify for "Guaranteed Minimum Income"... Don't tell me this wouldn't happen.. Friedman is an economist first.. Social psychology doesn't have a lot of numbers or accounting..

And anyways -- MY understanding of what the 20 Dem candidates were pushing was not "means tested".. In fact, IIRC, Yang wanted to send monthly checks to EVERYONE...

The 1st crisis that shuts down public schools, a version of TANF or WIC would return to feed the starving kids that apparently the parents will just not feed....

 

[Picaro]

lol at '$1,300 a month' or so. Friedman's last estimate of what minimum wage should be that I remember seeing, back in the early 2000's, was around $43K per year, substantially more than the $15.6K mentioned here.

It would require doing away with all the tax subsidies and ridiculous deductions businesses get, especially the hedge funds and big multi-nationals like GE and Exxon get. I'm not opposed to any that personally, but it's not going to happen, and a VAT tax isn't an option, either, it's regressive and makes no sense to bother to hand out the cash, then take it back when it's spent.

We've pretty much blown the opportunities to pay Americans a share of the wealth of this country when we got the Railroad Acts, the Homestead Acts, and all the rest as a result of the Civil War, and with the patent laws that we have now, the massive losses of royalties from mineral wealth and patents that would entirely finance govt. without any taxes at all.

 

[Picaro]

Another unintended side effect would be making the "income gap" higher as low wage workers take "part time work" to qualify for "Guaranteed Minimum Income"... Don't tell me this wouldn't happen..

Yes, well, taking part time work is already the norm, it's the biggest number of those jobs being created for the last 40 years; we're already there by fiat, not choice.

 

[sparky]

This would replace welfare programs

1) freedom
2) reduces bureaucracy
3) work always pays off, no welfare lost for work
4) equality
5) it is NOT communism, profit motive remains intact.

Where do you expect to find the unicorn that shits money, without devaluing it to worthlessness?

~S~

 

[sparky]

The monetary policy, known as Universal Basic Income (UBI), has made its way into the national spotlight over the last year thanks to businessman Andrew Yang. The policy could mean that American citizens affected by the coronavirus shutdowns would get $1,000 a month in cash.

There's a long history to UBI Jim>>>

Who Really Stands to Win from Universal Basic Income?

~S~

 

[flacaltenn]

Another unintended side effect would be making the "income gap" higher as low wage workers take "part time work" to qualify for "Guaranteed Minimum Income"... Don't tell me this wouldn't happen..

Yes, well, taking part time work is already the norm, it's the biggest number of those jobs being created for the last 40 years; we're already there by fiat, not choice.

Not lately.. Unless you count the "gig" economy like Lyft and Uber or DJing.. But those people probably have a first job that isn't unskilled labor..

 

[flacaltenn]

lol at '$1,300 a month' or so. Friedman's last estimate of what minimum wage should be that I remember seeing, back in the early 2000's, was around $43K per year, substantially more than the $15.6K mentioned here.

I don't consider it humane or wise to promote the SALARIES of jobs and NOT "promote the person"... Those jobs are largely endangered and are NOT CAREERS... Automation is not the killer of jobs.. Lack of knowledge and skills is... Promoting the PERSON breaks the "income gap"... Paying inflated wages for a menial, dead end job does not.

HOW LONG you want UNDERSKILLED people to have to remain in mind-numbing, low skilled jobs paying the same as semi-skilled jobs?? It's a bandaid, not anything close to a solution to "the gap"...

I actually believe that "min wage" should ONLY APPLY to people who are actively enrolled in academics, vocational training or seniors... And if you DID THAT -- MANY companies would find it cheaper and better for public relations to KICK IN subsidies to PUT their unskilled labor into "continuing education" of some kind...

 

[sparky]

Automation is not the killer of jobs.. Lack of knowledge and skills is..

thank Gawd someone here gets this

~S~

 

[Picaro]

lol at '$1,300 a month' or so. Friedman's last estimate of what minimum wage should be that I remember seeing, back in the early 2000's, was around $43K per year, substantially more than the $15.6K mentioned here.

I don't consider it humane or wise to promote the SALARIES of jobs and NOT "promote the person"... Those jobs are largely endangered and are NOT CAREERS... Automation is not the killer of jobs.. Lack of knowledge and skills is... Promoting the PERSON breaks the "income gap"... Paying inflated wages for a menial, dead end job does not.

HOW LONG you want UNDERSKILLED people to have to remain in mind-numbing, low skilled jobs paying the same as semi-skilled jobs?? It's a bandaid, not anything close to a solution to "the gap"...

I actually believe that "min wage" should ONLY APPLY to people who are actively enrolled in academics, vocational training or seniors... And if you DID THAT -- MANY companies would find it cheaper and better for public relations to KICK IN subsidies to PUT their unskilled labor into "continuing education" of some kind...

A lot of dissembling that of course avoids the issue of merely adjusting minimum wage for real inflation, based on the premise that it would make the floor on wages here higher than the wages in Third World totalitarian police states where the factories look like prison block houses, complete with walls topped with barbed wire to keep the 'contract employees from escaping.

Why not just re-legalize slavery? Make it legal again for desperate people to sell themselves like in the good old days. Or better yet, another Libertarian solution is allowing employers to buy people overseas even cheaper, and have the government subsidize the costs of shipping them here. It would be great for 'business n stuff'. Being able to legally beat or taser them for non-performance would be great for increasing productivity, too.

In other news, no one on the Right ever comes out and talks about how expensive it is to keep the corporate personhood scam going and the 'limited liability' scam protection for crappy and crooked management. Putting a floor on business losses caused by incompetence and criminal behavior good, a floor on wages to offset that lop-sided benefit is bad.

the lie that more education is the solution is pure rubbish; the number of jobs being created that require a lot of education is small, less than 20% of those created every year.; just because some HR hack dreams up a claim they need a master's degree for something doesn't mean their job actually doses need one. We know most companies lie about the job requirements, especially in the tech fields, so they can run to the government and get handfuls of green cards. That's why you see so many weird and silly 'experience' requirements in the job descriptions that hardly anybody would have in real life.

 

[flacaltenn]

A lot of dissembling that of course avoids the issue of merely adjusting minimum wage for real inflation, based on the premise that it would make the floor on wages here higher than the wages in Third World totalitarian police states where the factories look like prison block houses, complete with walls topped with barbed wire to keep the 'contract employees from escaping.

What is this? DO YOU think it's humane and wise to INFLATE the wage of the menial dead end job -- RATHER THAN --- inflate the POTENTIAL of that person and REALLY attack poverty and "the gap" at it's roots?????
\

 

[flacaltenn]

WHY are you comparing the fast food labor to gulags and slave labor? WHY are you determined to make them comfortable in endangered dead end jobs for the rest of their lives? HOW does that "relieve poverty" or "the gap"????

I could take a busload of kids at a burger joint and coach and train them to have REAL careers.. They are not DUMB... They never been motivated to learn... Because our public education system has stigmatized them with increasingly LOWERED EXPECTATIONS.. You have NO RESPECT for these young people... You're tossing money at a problem you have NO IDEA how to solve...

 

[flacaltenn]

the lie that more education is the solution is pure rubbish; the number of jobs being created that require a lot of education is small, less than 20% of those created every year.; just because some HR hack dreams up a claim they need a master's degree for something doesn't mean their job actually doses need one.

The jobs of 21st century require fungible SKILLS and learning flexibility.. The broader the skills base and more motivated to ADAPT to changing demands is the KEY to 21st century job security...

In my career, I ended up doing the jobs of about 8 support people that USED to assist me in Research/Development.. I BECAME the draftsman, the library researcher, the manuscript and presentation creator, the buyer and so on...

THAT is what required to survive..

Our drop out rate is ABYSMAL... Dangling HIGH WAGES for menial work in front of kids that want to BAIL from school in the 10 or 11 year --- is a FUCKING CRIME.... Bring back vocational alternatives. Expand apprenticeships... MAKE "continuing education" A PREREQ for even HAVING a "min wage" job....

 

[Damaged Eagle]

View attachment 313236

You cannot draw an analogy between interactions between individuals vrs citizens to government taxation.

Governments have rights of sovereignty, and domain while individuals do not.

Only so long as the government believes it has the power to do whatever it choses.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

lol at '$1,300 a month' or so. Friedman's last estimate of what minimum wage should be that I remember seeing, back in the early 2000's, was around $43K per year, substantially more than the $15.6K mentioned here.

I don't consider it humane or wise to promote the SALARIES of jobs and NOT "promote the person"... Those jobs are largely endangered and are NOT CAREERS... Automation is not the killer of jobs.. Lack of knowledge and skills is... Promoting the PERSON breaks the "income gap"... Paying inflated wages for a menial, dead end job does not.

HOW LONG you want UNDERSKILLED people to have to remain in mind-numbing, low skilled jobs paying the same as semi-skilled jobs?? It's a bandaid, not anything close to a solution to "the gap"...

I actually believe that "min wage" should ONLY APPLY to people who are actively enrolled in academics, vocational training or seniors... And if you DID THAT -- MANY companies would find it cheaper and better for public relations to KICK IN subsidies to PUT their unskilled labor into "continuing education" of some kind...

You do realize there are people who are only capable of pushing a broom, cleaning windows, and other menial jobs, because they can't do any truly skilled labor without constant supervision. Math is beyond them, reading and writing is elementary at best, and little to no social skills, limit them to those menial jobs.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

WHY are you comparing the fast food labor to gulags and slave labor? WHY are you determined to make them comfortable in endangered dead end jobs for the rest of their lives? HOW does that "relieve poverty" or "the gap"????

I could take a busload of kids at a burger joint and coach and train them to have REAL careers.. They are not DUMB... They never been motivated to learn... Because our public education system has stigmatized them with increasingly LOWERED EXPECTATIONS.. You have NO RESPECT for these young people... You're tossing money at a problem you have NO IDEA how to solve...

That only works so long as the supervisor/trainer is honest and not threatened by the idea that one of those they're supervising/training might replace them.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Picaro]

the lie that more education is the solution is pure rubbish; the number of jobs being created that require a lot of education is small, less than 20% of those created every year.; just because some HR hack dreams up a claim they need a master's degree for something doesn't mean their job actually doses need one.

The jobs of 21st century require fungible SKILLS and learning flexibility.. The broader the skills base and more motivated to ADAPT to changing demands is the KEY to 21st century job security...

In my career, I ended up doing the jobs of about 8 support people that USED to assist me in Research/Development.. I BECAME the draftsman, the library researcher, the manuscript and presentation creator, the buyer and so on...

THAT is what required to survive..

Our drop out rate is ABYSMAL... Dangling HIGH WAGES for menial work in front of kids that want to BAIL from school in the 10 or 11 year --- is a FUCKING CRIME.... Bring back vocational alternatives. Expand apprenticeships... MAKE "continuing education" A PREREQ for even HAVING a "min wage" job....

lol load of red herrings and straw men. Raising the minimum wage to match inflation isn't 'HIGH WAGES!!!' for one, and for two, you keep claiming we're creating jobs that require skills and stuff; that's simply not true at all. No need to worry about drop out rates, since Walmart doesn't need PhD's to stack cans of tuna and Skittles on the shelves.

And, grade inflation has rendered even most 'college degrees' worthless. When the receptionist at a university science dept. quit to go have a kid, they put out an ad requiring a degree in English and 3 years experience. You really think an $8 an hour receptionist job needs to have a Bachelor's degree??? You think it needs more than maybe a month or so at the outside in the way of experience?

 

[Picaro]

A lot of dissembling that of course avoids the issue of merely adjusting minimum wage for real inflation, based on the premise that it would make the floor on wages here higher than the wages in Third World totalitarian police states where the factories look like prison block houses, complete with walls topped with barbed wire to keep the 'contract employees from escaping.

What is this? DO YOU think it's humane and wise to INFLATE the wage of the menial dead end job -- RATHER THAN --- inflate the POTENTIAL of that person and REALLY attack poverty and "the gap" at it's roots?????
\

lol so poof, suddenly everybody now has a PhD; now what? You think there are jobs for 334 million doctorates?

 

[OldLady]

Tom Cotton Floats Universal Basic Income for Coronavirus Crisis

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) is floating a plan to “get cash into the hands of affected workers and their families” due to national shutdowns of businesses in nearly every industry from the coronavirus outbreak.

In a series of posts online and in a Fox News Channel interview, Cotton said American workers who are being forced to stay home from their jobs due to shutdowns in the midst of the coronavirus crisis need immediate relief in the form of cash payments.

The monetary policy, known as Universal Basic Income (UBI), has made its way into the national spotlight over the last year thanks to businessman Andrew Yang. The policy could mean that American citizens affected by the coronavirus shutdowns would get $1,000 a month in cash.

Cotton suggested using existing social welfare agencies to put “cash in the hands of affected families.”

“We don’t want to see layoffs, we want to see people who are at home, if they have any reason to be at home, supported immediately,” Cotton said.​

So I guess the President's idea of sending EVERYONE who makes under $75,000/yr a check for $1,000 is off the table? Dang.

 

[Picaro]

Tom Cotton Floats Universal Basic Income for Coronavirus Crisis

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) is floating a plan to “get cash into the hands of affected workers and their families” due to national shutdowns of businesses in nearly every industry from the coronavirus outbreak.

In a series of posts online and in a Fox News Channel interview, Cotton said American workers who are being forced to stay home from their jobs due to shutdowns in the midst of the coronavirus crisis need immediate relief in the form of cash payments.

The monetary policy, known as Universal Basic Income (UBI), has made its way into the national spotlight over the last year thanks to businessman Andrew Yang. The policy could mean that American citizens affected by the coronavirus shutdowns would get $1,000 a month in cash.

Cotton suggested using existing social welfare agencies to put “cash in the hands of affected families.”

“We don’t want to see layoffs, we want to see people who are at home, if they have any reason to be at home, supported immediately,” Cotton said.​

So I guess the President's idea of sending EVERYONE who makes under $75,000/yr a check for $1,000 is off the table? Dang.

It's an election year, with November just months away, so they're going to promise everybody everything, then 'change their minds' by the first of December, like Democrats always do when they get a majority and the votes to do anything they want but then never do anything they promised, just go back to extorting business people and opening the borders to cheap labor and criminal gangs that prey on American citizens that can't afford to live in gated communities or the HAmptons or islands like Martha's Vinyard.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Tom Cotton Floats Universal Basic Income for Coronavirus Crisis

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) is floating a plan to “get cash into the hands of affected workers and their families” due to national shutdowns of businesses in nearly every industry from the coronavirus outbreak.

In a series of posts online and in a Fox News Channel interview, Cotton said American workers who are being forced to stay home from their jobs due to shutdowns in the midst of the coronavirus crisis need immediate relief in the form of cash payments.

The monetary policy, known as Universal Basic Income (UBI), has made its way into the national spotlight over the last year thanks to businessman Andrew Yang. The policy could mean that American citizens affected by the coronavirus shutdowns would get $1,000 a month in cash.

Cotton suggested using existing social welfare agencies to put “cash in the hands of affected families.”

“We don’t want to see layoffs, we want to see people who are at home, if they have any reason to be at home, supported immediately,” Cotton said.​

So I guess the President's idea of sending EVERYONE who makes under $75,000/yr a check for $1,000 is off the table? Dang.

How did you divine that from the post?