48%: The Democratic Party needs to face an ugly reality

[healthmyths]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

I disagree with him on more of the issues. I'll be more than happy to go into as much detail as you would like. You'd be the first Trumpster with the balls to take me up on that offer. Just let me know!

His acute Narcissistic Personality Disorder only seals the deal on how I'll vote - I'd much rather vote third party, but I have to vote against this profoundly damaged man and the ugly arrogant ignorance he enables.

There. I made that as simple as I can for you.

Did you understand what I wrote? At all? Should I use larger font? Crayon?

Well what your response shows is how a person with a grade school intellect and personality responds.
Everything you criticized about Trump is true. Arrogant. Braggart. All characteristics of a NON-POLIITICAL person who has had
years of success as a boss. Since you are evidently still in a very young mental age, i.e. not able to look beyond your next meal,
you just don't comprehend the simple fact that Trump is getting things done...in spite of the MSM, Democrats and especially naive people
like you. I mean give me a Trump any day and he will beat people like Biden to a pulp...figuratively, because you being naive enough to believe when Trump said "I could be on 5th ave..." and idiots believed he meant it!
Finally since you evidently are mentally mature, maybe an old statement my Mom said.."Point at some one and 3 fingers point back at you.
Look beyond those juvenile perceptions and consider the world is looking at Trump as a Nobel prize winner..2 times! He must be doing
something right.

 

[Mac1958]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

I disagree with him on more of the issues. I'll be more than happy to go into as much detail as you would like. You'd be the first Trumpster with the balls to take me up on that offer. Just let me know!

His acute Narcissistic Personality Disorder only seals the deal on how I'll vote - I'd much rather vote third party, but I have to vote against this profoundly damaged man and the ugly arrogant ignorance he enables.

There. I made that as simple as I can for you.

Did you understand what I wrote? At all? Should I use larger font? Crayon?

Well what your response shows is how a person with a grade school intellect and personality responds.
Everything you criticized about Trump is true. Arrogant. Braggart. All characteristics of a NON-POLIITICAL person who has had
years of success as a boss. Since you are evidently still in a very young mental age, i.e. not able to look beyond your next meal,
you just don't comprehend the simple fact that Trump is getting things done...in spite of the MSM, Democrats and especially naive people
like you. I mean give me a Trump any day and he will beat people like Biden to a pulp...figuratively, because you being naive enough to believe when Trump said "I could be on 5th ave..." and idiots believed he meant it!
Finally since you evidently are mentally mature, maybe an old statement my Mom said.."Point at some one and 3 fingers point back at you.
Look beyond those juvenile perceptions and consider the world is looking at Trump as a Nobel prize winner..2 times! He must be doing
something right.

You're just too smart for me.

 

[healthmyths]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

I disagree with him on more of the issues. I'll be more than happy to go into as much detail as you would like. You'd be the first Trumpster with the balls to take me up on that offer. Just let me know!

His acute Narcissistic Personality Disorder only seals the deal on how I'll vote - I'd much rather vote third party, but I have to vote against this profoundly damaged man and the ugly arrogant ignorance he enables.

There. I made that as simple as I can for you.

Did you understand what I wrote? At all? Should I use larger font? Crayon?

Well what your response shows is how a person with a grade school intellect and personality responds.
Everything you criticized about Trump is true. Arrogant. Braggart. All characteristics of a NON-POLIITICAL person who has had
years of success as a boss. Since you are evidently still in a very young mental age, i.e. not able to look beyond your next meal,
you just don't comprehend the simple fact that Trump is getting things done...in spite of the MSM, Democrats and especially naive people
like you. I mean give me a Trump any day and he will beat people like Biden to a pulp...figuratively, because you being naive enough to believe when Trump said "I could be on 5th ave..." and idiots believed he meant it!
Finally since you evidently are mentally mature, maybe an old statement my Mom said.."Point at some one and 3 fingers point back at you.
Look beyond those juvenile perceptions and consider the world is looking at Trump as a Nobel prize winner..2 times! He must be doing
something right.

You're just too smart for me.

Oh I'm definitely not too smart for you! But what I evidently have is MANY years of experience on you in that I've had bosses JUST like Trump. Considered A-holes! Pompous butts! You name them and yet when it is all said and done... these people got things done!
For too many years probably with going back to Eisenhower who was my first political choice, there was almost always presidents who were historically politically driven. Trump was like Eisenhower NOT a politician but a doer. Consider what Ike did. First and foremost he got
Americans back to working...after years of war...WWII, Korea... just like Trump. But then you maybe to young to know but the entire country's Interstate system was created under Ike. Again getting things done. Like Trump. And like Trump... some people really detested Ike!

My point is give me a person who has built things, made things happen. Not a political animal who goes which way the polls suggest.
We need to get things going.
Again... I'm not smart...just experienced with 76 years under my belt!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did I mention Trump started Covid and infected and personally murdered millions with it?

If he thought the white wingers would praise him like grandma at church for it, he would claim credit. And you guys probably would , if he did. Just one big, mindless feedback loop of lost people.

 

[AntonToo]

This is just a guess, of course

[/pointless_thread]

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Jesse Ventura clearly demonstrated that "pulling from both sides" is a loser's game.

All you really need to do to win is motivate around 10%-12% of the electorate (which was the higher-than-normal spike in turnout when he won) that usually stays home, and the "pulling from both sides" crap takes care of itself.

That’s gaming the system to win elections. It’s not what’s best for our country

Motivating sideline players to participate is "gaming the system"....Are you fucking serious?

I don’t remember saying “motivating sideline players” where did you get that from?

That's what Ventura did....He got somewhere around 10%-12% of people who didn't normally vote to come out and vote for him....You claimed that was "gaming the system".

I think rallying the extremists is absolutely gaming the system. It gets you elected to go get nothing done. You can’t govern effectively without compromise

The 50% of people who don't vote are extremists?!?

Please provide any evidence for this absurd claim.

I didn’t make that claim, you just did. A persons POV determines whether they are an extremist and those are the people I’m talking about. I think most people sit closer to the middle

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

Republicans are doing that. Trump is different. The big State Republicans went to the Democrats and Republicans drew people like me in who hadn't been voting for them in decades. It's a new game.

On the other hand, you are supporting the party that's still run, run pass and punt that you're saying you'd like to change

No thanks to changing towards Trumps toxic America.

Democrats have acted this way for 40 years. Stop blaming it on Trump and grow a pair, Darlene

I blame Trump for what he deserves to be blamed for. Actions of Dems don’t excuse any of it.

Yes, you acted this way for 40 years towards the Republicans because of Trump. You're just putting blame where blame is due. Got it

I’ve been supportive of Republicans for most my life. You don’t know what you’re talking about

And I'm a ballerina.

Gawd. Lamest crap ever. Sure, sport, you were a Republican. So what was your epiphany that caused you to wake up one day and realize that you agreed with Democrats on every issue?

I’ve never been a member of either party but I’ve supported plenty of republicans. I’m a business owner that supports smaller gov and lower taxes

You want smaller government and lower taxes, and vote for Democrats and Biden!

Yes. Trump is that bad

 

[Mac1958]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Jesse Ventura clearly demonstrated that "pulling from both sides" is a loser's game.

All you really need to do to win is motivate around 10%-12% of the electorate (which was the higher-than-normal spike in turnout when he won) that usually stays home, and the "pulling from both sides" crap takes care of itself.

That’s gaming the system to win elections. It’s not what’s best for our country

Motivating sideline players to participate is "gaming the system"....Are you fucking serious?

I don’t remember saying “motivating sideline players” where did you get that from?

That's what Ventura did....He got somewhere around 10%-12% of people who didn't normally vote to come out and vote for him....You claimed that was "gaming the system".

I think rallying the extremists is absolutely gaming the system. It gets you elected to go get nothing done. You can’t govern effectively without compromise

The 50% of people who don't vote are extremists?!?

Please provide any evidence for this absurd claim.

I didn’t make that claim, you just did. A persons POV determines whether they are an extremist and those are the people I’m talking about. I think most people sit closer to the middle

Nutters don't want to hear that. They want to believe everyone ELSE is a nutter, TOO.

That lets them justify their dishonesty and hatred.

And you'll hear that one from both ends, of course.

 

[kaz]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

Republicans are doing that. Trump is different. The big State Republicans went to the Democrats and Republicans drew people like me in who hadn't been voting for them in decades. It's a new game.

On the other hand, you are supporting the party that's still run, run pass and punt that you're saying you'd like to change

No thanks to changing towards Trumps toxic America.

Democrats have acted this way for 40 years. Stop blaming it on Trump and grow a pair, Darlene

I blame Trump for what he deserves to be blamed for. Actions of Dems don’t excuse any of it.

Yes, you acted this way for 40 years towards the Republicans because of Trump. You're just putting blame where blame is due. Got it

I’ve been supportive of Republicans for most my life. You don’t know what you’re talking about

And I'm a ballerina.

Gawd. Lamest crap ever. Sure, sport, you were a Republican. So what was your epiphany that caused you to wake up one day and realize that you agreed with Democrats on every issue?

I’ve never been a member of either party but I’ve supported plenty of republicans. I’m a business owner that supports smaller gov and lower taxes

You want smaller government and lower taxes, and vote for Democrats and Biden!

Yes. Trump is that bad

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

Republicans are doing that. Trump is different. The big State Republicans went to the Democrats and Republicans drew people like me in who hadn't been voting for them in decades. It's a new game.

On the other hand, you are supporting the party that's still run, run pass and punt that you're saying you'd like to change

No thanks to changing towards Trumps toxic America.

Democrats have acted this way for 40 years. Stop blaming it on Trump and grow a pair, Darlene

I blame Trump for what he deserves to be blamed for. Actions of Dems don’t excuse any of it.

Yes, you acted this way for 40 years towards the Republicans because of Trump. You're just putting blame where blame is due. Got it

I’ve been supportive of Republicans for most my life. You don’t know what you’re talking about

And I'm a ballerina.

Gawd. Lamest crap ever. Sure, sport, you were a Republican. So what was your epiphany that caused you to wake up one day and realize that you agreed with Democrats on every issue?

I’ve never been a member of either party but I’ve supported plenty of republicans. I’m a business owner that supports smaller gov and lower taxes

You want smaller government and lower taxes, and vote for Democrats and Biden!

Yes. Trump is that bad

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

 

[kaz]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

 

[Slade3200]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

 

[Nosmo King]

It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

The democrats tied themselves to everything going on. It's a self inflicted wound.

You realize Trump IS the president, right?

 

[kaz]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

 

[Slade3200]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

Whatever you say... liar

 

[kaz]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

Whatever you say... liar

You chose what to post on. If you can't post anything other than your love for the Democrat party, that's your choice

 

[Slade3200]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

Whatever you say... liar

You chose what to post on. If you can't post anything other than your love for the Democrat party, that's your choice

I don’t post my love for the democrat party. That’s just you lying again. Do you get a kick out of trolling or something?

 

[Oddball]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Jesse Ventura clearly demonstrated that "pulling from both sides" is a loser's game.

All you really need to do to win is motivate around 10%-12% of the electorate (which was the higher-than-normal spike in turnout when he won) that usually stays home, and the "pulling from both sides" crap takes care of itself.

That’s gaming the system to win elections. It’s not what’s best for our country

Motivating sideline players to participate is "gaming the system"....Are you fucking serious?

I don’t remember saying “motivating sideline players” where did you get that from?

That's what Ventura did....He got somewhere around 10%-12% of people who didn't normally vote to come out and vote for him....You claimed that was "gaming the system".

I think rallying the extremists is absolutely gaming the system. It gets you elected to go get nothing done. You can’t govern effectively without compromise

The 50% of people who don't vote are extremists?!?

Please provide any evidence for this absurd claim.

I didn’t make that claim, you just did. A persons POV determines whether they are an extremist and those are the people I’m talking about. I think most people sit closer to the middle

No, you made that claim, in response to my pointing out that Ventura (a populist) won by motivating only 10%-12% of the people who don't normally vote to do so.....You in turn implied that those people were extremists.

And if most people were close to "the middle" as you claim, then why do half of all potential voters stay home?...Fact is, via the statistics themselves, that only a tiny fraction of people are "in the middle".

 

[kaz]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

Whatever you say... liar

You chose what to post on. If you can't post anything other than your love for the Democrat party, that's your choice

I don’t post my love for the democrat party. That’s just you lying again. Do you get a kick out of trolling or something?

Agreeing with Democrats on every issue is pretty much loving the party.

The Republicans suck. I left the party 30 years ago and have no interest in them. I'm voting for Trump, but mostly it's because Democrats have gone off the deep end supporting rioting and OMG, the green new deal. I don't want to turn off my air conditioner on hot days because government is too incompetent to allow enough energy production

 

[Oddball]

Not voting for Trump is plausible. That you're for smaller government and lower taxes and you're voting for Biden is just you being a liar. That's not possible.

Then there's that you've entirely swallowed and repeat the DNC talking points. Trump is that bad that you decided to support the Democrat party on every issue. That's as stupid as it sounds

Of course it’s possible. Those aren’t the only two issues that determine my vote. We all aren’t simple minded voters that can only vote based on one or two things

And fortunately you agree with Democrats on EVERY position. That makes it so easy for you

Not even close but you go ahead and keep acting like you know it all. You just sound like a presumptive Ass

I can only go by what you post, which is you love, love, love Democrats all day long

Whatever you say... liar

You chose what to post on. If you can't post anything other than your love for the Democrat party, that's your choice

I don’t post my love for the democrat party. That’s just you lying again. Do you get a kick out of trolling or something?

No, you don't post about you're love for them....You only just praise virtually everything they say and do....Just like your fraudulent "centrist" butt buddy Mac the Hack does.