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3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia

bendog

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?
 

TheGreenHornet

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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think too much attention is being given to the trespassing aspect of this case....though it is what got the McMicharls involved as in Gregory McMichals a former policeman and investigator had been deputized to handle such problems in the neighborhood since he lived there and stuff had been stolen from his son's truck.

The critical part of this case to me and though I have never practiced law(I did go to Law School in Atlanta) is the way Ahmaud Arbary brazenly attacked Travis McMichael even though he was holding a shotgun.

Some ask would anyone sane do such a thing?

Well we could all conjecture about that...but it is on record that Ahmaud had mental problems and a persecution complex which can be seen in the various videos of his previous encounters with the police.....the enhanced glorious photo of ahmaud circulated by the media does not show the real Amaud....a convicted thief.
This much is certain -- if Ahmaud was white, we'd never have heard of him, and no one would care that he got shot.

The story just has the right racial optics to manipulate the masses.

No if Ahmaud were white they would have never bothered him in the first place, notice that they didn't chase any of the white trespassers on the property. Why is that?
According to the reports on the other trespassers, many were children, and multiple videos involve a black male, but it's not certain whether it is the same black male each time.

What reports would that be? So when white kids trespass it isn't trespassing.
Only one video is confirmed to be Arbery. So, it doesn't appear that the McMichaels were chasing off all blacks from the area.

What? You talk about reaching, boy you right wingers will do whatever you can to defend these racist murderers.
What did happen is that a gun was stolen from Travis McMichael's truck shortly about a month and a half before he and Gregory chased Arbery.

Which means what? Anybody could have stolen his gun, whites do steal guns. You do know that don't you?
Does that justify what they did? Of course not.

So why did you bring it up?
Was it racially motivated? Possibly, although that would be easier to determine if we had a timeline of trespassers on English's property. Without knowing how many trespassers were at the property since the gun theft and what race each of them were, it's hard to determine.

How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.


English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client.

Yea from right wing, racists.

Thus not surprising he is attempting to demonstrate sympathy for Ahmaud.

Or he is just telling the truth, imagine that.

The bottom line he does not want to be blamed by the radical elements for anything......quite understandable....he has a heart condition and needs peace...and no involvement in what has become a hot political potatoe.

What's the maximum effective rate of an excuse?

Yet...it cannot be denied he installed security cameras and talked to the police who advised him to call Gregory McMichaels about any problems he might have with trespassers.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

What part of that don't you understand?
Prior to the shooting, the McMichaels had confronted white people they saw entering the English house, Sheffield said.

Larry English, the man who owned the home under construction, had told police and neighbors he’d had thousands of dollars in electronics and fishing equipment stolen.

Thus thieves were a big problem for Larry English but now that the media has gone mad along with the state of Georgia trying to indict anyonr associated with this case....very understandable that Larry wants to distance himself from it all....even if he has to tell a couple of lies or invent hypothetical stuff like ....O Ahmaud was just stopping in for a drink of water and to study construction methods.

A thief is a thief is a thief......they do not change their spots.


 
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TheGreenHornet

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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think too much attention is being given to the trespassing aspect of this case....though it is what got the McMicharls involved as in Gregory McMichals a former policeman and investigator had been deputized to handle such problems in the neighborhood since he lived there and stuff had been stolen from his son's truck.

The critical part of this case to me and though I have never practiced law(I did go to Law School in Atlanta) is the way Ahmaud Arbary brazenly attacked Travis McMichael even though he was holding a shotgun.

Some ask would anyone sane do such a thing?

Well we could all conjecture about that...but it is on record that Ahmaud had mental problems and a persecution complex which can be seen in the various videos of his previous encounters with the police.....the enhanced glorious photo of ahmaud circulated by the media does not show the real Amaud....a convicted thief.
This much is certain -- if Ahmaud was white, we'd never have heard of him, and no one would care that he got shot.

The story just has the right racial optics to manipulate the masses.

No if Ahmaud were white they would have never bothered him in the first place, notice that they didn't chase any of the white trespassers on the property. Why is that?
According to the reports on the other trespassers, many were children, and multiple videos involve a black male, but it's not certain whether it is the same black male each time.

What reports would that be? So when white kids trespass it isn't trespassing.
Only one video is confirmed to be Arbery. So, it doesn't appear that the McMichaels were chasing off all blacks from the area.

What? You talk about reaching, boy you right wingers will do whatever you can to defend these racist murderers.
What did happen is that a gun was stolen from Travis McMichael's truck shortly about a month and a half before he and Gregory chased Arbery.

Which means what? Anybody could have stolen his gun, whites do steal guns. You do know that don't you?
Does that justify what they did? Of course not.

So why did you bring it up?
Was it racially motivated? Possibly, although that would be easier to determine if we had a timeline of trespassers on English's property. Without knowing how many trespassers were at the property since the gun theft and what race each of them were, it's hard to determine.

How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.


English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client.

Yea from right wing, racists.

Thus not surprising he is attempting to demonstrate sympathy for Ahmaud.

Or he is just telling the truth, imagine that.

The bottom line he does not want to be blamed by the radical elements for anything......quite understandable....he has a heart condition and needs peace...and no involvement in what has become a hot political potatoe.

What's the maximum effective rate of an excuse?

Yet...it cannot be denied he installed security cameras and talked to the police who advised him to call Gregory McMichaels about any problems he might have with trespassers.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

What part of that don't you understand?
Prior to the shooting, the McMichaels had confronted white people they saw entering the English house, Sheffield said.

Larry English, the man who owned the home under construction, had told police and neighbors he’d had thousands of dollars in electronics and fishing equipment stolen.

Thus thieves were a big problem for Larry English but now that the media has gone mad along with the state of Georgia trying to indict anyonr associated with this case....very understandable that Larry wants to distance himself from it all....even if he has to tell a couple of lies or invent hypothetical stuff like ....O Ahmaud was just stopping in for a drink of water and to study construction methods.

A thief is a thief is a thief......they do not change their spots.


Ahmaud was sentenced to five years of probation for carrying a gun onto the high school campus in 2013, a year after graduation, and shoplifting from a Walmart store in 2017, a charge that extended that probation up until the time of his death.

Someone has been very busy attemting to scrub Arbery's criminal history. You can get snippets of it here and there but most of it has been blocked.
 

Cecilie1200

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There are multiple videos of various people walking around on that construction site. Interesting how, as far as I can see, the only one that the McMichaels got their panties in a bunch over was the black guy. I don't recall hearing about them grabbing their guns and hopping in the truck to chase down the older white couple who were caught on video on that site, for example.
Looking at incidents and assigning blame by skin color is racist.

I agree, and that appears to be exactly what the McMichaels did.
 

Cecilie1200

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Ok for all the new people to the thread. Let’s go over the facts. The defense for the McMichaels is that they were engaging in a legal Citizens Arrest. In order for that defense to be valid Arbury had to be committing a crime on that day. What crime was Arbury committing?
Trespassing-----------while casing the place for ANOTHER ROBBERY. He was already suspect to have stolen from the place.

Actually under Georgia Law. He wasn’t really Trespassing. Legal Precedent on that has restricted the ability to either arrest someone for that crime or have the police arrest them to the property owner or legally designated representative.

People come to construction sites. As long as they don’t take anything Trespassing isn’t really a crime that they can be charged with.

And as far as him being a suspect in another burglary it happened long before the shooting so it is not Germaine to the day either.

The purpose of Citizens Arrest was to allow someone to detain an individual caught in the act. It can hardly be said that a burglary weeks ago was “in the act”.


Next?

There are multiple videos of various people walking around on that construction site. Interesting how, as far as I can see, the only one that the McMichaels got their panties in a bunch over was the black guy. I don't recall hearing about them grabbing their guns and hopping in the truck to chase down the older white couple who were caught on video on that site, for example.
The whites were unknown to the McMichaels......try and use a lil bit of common sense...how you gonna chase or go after someone that you do not know who they are, where they are or where they live?

They only chased after Ahmaud because he was running by the McMichaels house and Greg got a phone call about an intruder on the property just before he saw Ahmaud running from that direction and he recognized Ahmaud from the security cam footage he had seen previously.

Geez....how much more stupid can you get???

I did not trust my memory. So I searched. I can’t find any reference to Larry English calling the McMichaels on the day of the shooting.

In fact. Larry English says that he never sent the video to the McMichaels.


So if nobody called the McMichaels why did they set off in pursuit?

As near as I can piece together from the rather jumbled reports about the timeline, the McMichaels saw a surveillance video of a black man on the construction site. At some point, Travis McMichaels took it upon himself to confront that black man, and the man ran away. Going by the McMichaels' talk of "string of burglaries", they thought that black man on the surveillance video was responsible for Travis' truck being broken into and his gun being stolen, although why they think it was him I have no idea, since there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the man on the surveillance video stole anything at any point in time. The McMichaels believed that Ahmaud Arbery was the same man on the surveillance video and that Travis confronted, although there also doesn't appear to be any evidence of that, either. On the basis of that, they decided to chase him down with guns.
 

Cecilie1200

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I did not trust my memory. So I searched. I can’t find any reference to Larry English calling the McMichaels on the day of the shooting.

In fact. Larry English says that he never sent the video to the McMichaels.

So if nobody called the McMichaels why did they set off in pursuit?
So English is distancing himself from the incident. No shit. They never identified the person in the construction site. An unarmed man was killed....Justice will be dispensed. I just object to some calling it a racist incident.

Why? The friend who helped the McMichaels in their pursuit said Travis McMichaels used a racial slur while looking at Arbery bleeding out. Seems to me like a racism problem might very well be part of their motivation in this case.
 

Cecilie1200

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?

The federal prosecutor seems to think so, although I couldn't say exactly why.
 

bendog

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?

The federal prosecutor seems to think so, although I couldn't say exactly why.
I suppose that if the state court acquits them, the feds can tee them up. And the state was initially not doing anything to the ex cop. But it just seems premature imo.
 

Cecilie1200

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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think the main thing we can learn from this is that emotional "follow the narrative no matter what" thinking isn't limited to leftists.
I'm not saying what the McMichaels did was justified, but the owner of the property clearly felt pressure to retract his previous claims that theft had occurred.

Hindsight is 20/20, but proper security often prevents theft issues.

"Clearly felt pressure"? Is that "pressure" from the fact that there are no surveillance tapes that we've seen so far showing any thefts, no police reports about thefts from that property? Does "clear" mean "I want to believe it"?
My mistake. I had mistaken a report about a previous incident on that property that had mentioned a 911 call. Larry English didn't actually make a report on the day that Arbery was seen on the property.

The evidence for and reports about the timeline are really spotty and jumbled. The owner appears to have spoken to the police about the site in calls to a non-emergency number, but either never called 911 about it, or only called it once well before the day Arbery was shot.

As far as I can tell from what's been made available so far, the McMichaels' actions were motivated by Travis' truck being broken into - the only actual theft in the neighborhood to have been reported to the police, apparently - seeing a surveillance video of a black man walking around the construction site, a possible confrontation by Travis of a black man at the construction site, and their belief that Arbery was that same man.
 

Cecilie1200

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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think too much attention is being given to the trespassing aspect of this case....though it is what got the McMicharls involved as in Gregory McMichals a former policeman and investigator had been deputized to handle such problems in the neighborhood since he lived there and stuff had been stolen from his son's truck.

The critical part of this case to me and though I have never practiced law(I did go to Law School in Atlanta) is the way Ahmaud Arbary brazenly attacked Travis McMichael even though he was holding a shotgun.

Some ask would anyone sane do such a thing?

Well we could all conjecture about that...but it is on record that Ahmaud had mental problems and a persecution complex which can be seen in the various videos of his previous encounters with the police.....the enhanced glorious photo of ahmaud circulated by the media does not show the real Amaud....a convicted thief.
This much is certain -- if Ahmaud was white, we'd never have heard of him, and no one would care that he got shot.

The story just has the right racial optics to manipulate the masses.

No if Ahmaud were white they would have never bothered him in the first place, notice that they didn't chase any of the white trespassers on the property. Why is that?
According to the reports on the other trespassers, many were children, and multiple videos involve a black male, but it's not certain whether it is the same black male each time. Only one video is confirmed to be Arbery. So, it doesn't appear that the McMichaels were chasing off all blacks from the area. What did happen is that a gun was stolen from Travis McMichael's truck shortly about a month and a half before he and Gregory chased Arbery. Does that justify what they did? Of course not. Was it racially motivated? Possibly, although that would be easier to determine if we had a timeline of trespassers on English's property. Without knowing how many trespassers were at the property since the gun theft and what race each of them were, it's hard to determine.

I'm very much looking forward to the presentation of evidence in the trial, simply to get this all nailed down in some sort of coherent, linear fashion. Right now, it's very piecemeal and confusing.
 

Cecilie1200

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[Superbadbrutha]
How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.

First of all, I have not taken the stance of defending the McMichaels. I already replied to another poster that I don't care if they go to jail or not. It does look like they will be going to jail.

When I said reports, I'm referring to the news coverage that has talked about the other trespassers. There was a previous incident on the property that involved a 911 call. I don't know if the property owner called it on a black guy or on someone else, but it was something mentioned in multiple articles early on when the Arbery incident first came to light.

And yes, I do know that whites steal guns too. The reason I brought up the gun theft is that it sounds like the McMichaels were on higher alert than normal after that event. Unfortunately, that led to them making some very poor decisions later on, but whether or not those decisions were specifically racist isn't known.

Given what is known currently, making the argument that the McMichaels were murderous is substantially easier than suggesting they were specifically motivated by race. That requires a lot more evidence and analysis.

Edit: Man, the quotes tags are really screwed up now, and I don't know how to fix them.
[/QUOTE]

I believe the main reason they're being charged with a hate crime is because their buddy and co-defendant said that Travis uttered a racial slur while looking down at the dying/dead Arbery after he shot him.
 

Cecilie1200

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?

The federal prosecutor seems to think so, although I couldn't say exactly why.
I suppose that if the state court acquits them, the feds can tee them up. And the state was initially not doing anything to the ex cop. But it just seems premature imo.

Well, if the state court acquits them, it pretty much destroys the feds' case. How can it have been a hate crime if it wasn't a crime?
 

bendog

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?

The federal prosecutor seems to think so, although I couldn't say exactly why.
I suppose that if the state court acquits them, the feds can tee them up. And the state was initially not doing anything to the ex cop. But it just seems premature imo.

Well, if the state court acquits them, it pretty much destroys the feds' case. How can it have been a hate crime if it wasn't a crime?
The feds get an entirely new jury and get to retry the facts under the federal crime. It's sort of like the civil rights prosecution of the Medger Evers and Three voter registration workers killed in Miss during the 1960s.
 
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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think too much attention is being given to the trespassing aspect of this case....though it is what got the McMicharls involved as in Gregory McMichals a former policeman and investigator had been deputized to handle such problems in the neighborhood since he lived there and stuff had been stolen from his son's truck.

The critical part of this case to me and though I have never practiced law(I did go to Law School in Atlanta) is the way Ahmaud Arbary brazenly attacked Travis McMichael even though he was holding a shotgun.

Some ask would anyone sane do such a thing?

Well we could all conjecture about that...but it is on record that Ahmaud had mental problems and a persecution complex which can be seen in the various videos of his previous encounters with the police.....the enhanced glorious photo of ahmaud circulated by the media does not show the real Amaud....a convicted thief.
This much is certain -- if Ahmaud was white, we'd never have heard of him, and no one would care that he got shot.

The story just has the right racial optics to manipulate the masses.

No if Ahmaud were white they would have never bothered him in the first place, notice that they didn't chase any of the white trespassers on the property. Why is that?
According to the reports on the other trespassers, many were children, and multiple videos involve a black male, but it's not certain whether it is the same black male each time.

What reports would that be? So when white kids trespass it isn't trespassing.
Only one video is confirmed to be Arbery. So, it doesn't appear that the McMichaels were chasing off all blacks from the area.

What? You talk about reaching, boy you right wingers will do whatever you can to defend these racist murderers.
What did happen is that a gun was stolen from Travis McMichael's truck shortly about a month and a half before he and Gregory chased Arbery.

Which means what? Anybody could have stolen his gun, whites do steal guns. You do know that don't you?
Does that justify what they did? Of course not.

So why did you bring it up?
Was it racially motivated? Possibly, although that would be easier to determine if we had a timeline of trespassers on English's property. Without knowing how many trespassers were at the property since the gun theft and what race each of them were, it's hard to determine.

How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.


English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client.

Yea from right wing, racists.

Thus not surprising he is attempting to demonstrate sympathy for Ahmaud.

Or he is just telling the truth, imagine that.

The bottom line he does not want to be blamed by the radical elements for anything......quite understandable....he has a heart condition and needs peace...and no involvement in what has become a hot political potatoe.

What's the maximum effective rate of an excuse?

Yet...it cannot be denied he installed security cameras and talked to the police who advised him to call Gregory McMichaels about any problems he might have with trespassers.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

What part of that don't you understand?
The ole guy is in poor health.....has a heart problem and is frightened by BLM, Antifa etc.....who have sent him death threats.
[/QUOTE]

You are just making up shit now.
Thus he is going along with the charade to get along.

He isn't jumping on the racist bandwagon.
I do not blame him....he deserves to live in peace ....and it was not racist of him to install security cams as the cams captured anyone who went in there irregardless of race.

Who claimed anything he did was racist? You've got nothing so now you are just pulling stuff out if your butt. English knows that these 3 racist, hillbillies are guilty as hell of murder.
 
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I think the main thing we can learn from this is that, if you have a construction site near a certain demographic makeup, you need to either hire security or have a secure fence around it. Otherwise, "joggers" may decide to borrow a few things.

I think too much attention is being given to the trespassing aspect of this case....though it is what got the McMicharls involved as in Gregory McMichals a former policeman and investigator had been deputized to handle such problems in the neighborhood since he lived there and stuff had been stolen from his son's truck.

The critical part of this case to me and though I have never practiced law(I did go to Law School in Atlanta) is the way Ahmaud Arbary brazenly attacked Travis McMichael even though he was holding a shotgun.

Some ask would anyone sane do such a thing?

Well we could all conjecture about that...but it is on record that Ahmaud had mental problems and a persecution complex which can be seen in the various videos of his previous encounters with the police.....the enhanced glorious photo of ahmaud circulated by the media does not show the real Amaud....a convicted thief.
This much is certain -- if Ahmaud was white, we'd never have heard of him, and no one would care that he got shot.

The story just has the right racial optics to manipulate the masses.

No if Ahmaud were white they would have never bothered him in the first place, notice that they didn't chase any of the white trespassers on the property. Why is that?
According to the reports on the other trespassers, many were children, and multiple videos involve a black male, but it's not certain whether it is the same black male each time.

What reports would that be? So when white kids trespass it isn't trespassing.
Only one video is confirmed to be Arbery. So, it doesn't appear that the McMichaels were chasing off all blacks from the area.

What? You talk about reaching, boy you right wingers will do whatever you can to defend these racist murderers.
What did happen is that a gun was stolen from Travis McMichael's truck shortly about a month and a half before he and Gregory chased Arbery.

Which means what? Anybody could have stolen his gun, whites do steal guns. You do know that don't you?
Does that justify what they did? Of course not.

So why did you bring it up?
Was it racially motivated? Possibly, although that would be easier to determine if we had a timeline of trespassers on English's property. Without knowing how many trespassers were at the property since the gun theft and what race each of them were, it's hard to determine.

How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.


English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client.

Yea from right wing, racists.

Thus not surprising he is attempting to demonstrate sympathy for Ahmaud.

Or he is just telling the truth, imagine that.

The bottom line he does not want to be blamed by the radical elements for anything......quite understandable....he has a heart condition and needs peace...and no involvement in what has become a hot political potatoe.

What's the maximum effective rate of an excuse?

Yet...it cannot be denied he installed security cameras and talked to the police who advised him to call Gregory McMichaels about any problems he might have with trespassers.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

What part of that don't you understand?
Prior to the shooting, the McMichaels had confronted white people they saw entering the English house, Sheffield said.

Larry English, the man who owned the home under construction, had told police and neighbors he’d had thousands of dollars in electronics and fishing equipment stolen.

Thus thieves were a big problem for Larry English but now that the media has gone mad along with the state of Georgia trying to indict anyonr associated with this case....very understandable that Larry wants to distance himself from it all....even if he has to tell a couple of lies or invent hypothetical stuff like ....O Ahmaud was just stopping in for a drink of water and to study construction methods.

A thief is a thief is a thief......they do not change their spots.



Let's see if the lawyers can back this up, don't worry your racist hillbilly buddies will get their day in court.
 

Cecilie1200

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
If the McMichaels are convicted of murder, or even manslaughter, do the hate crime charges really matter?

The federal prosecutor seems to think so, although I couldn't say exactly why.
I suppose that if the state court acquits them, the feds can tee them up. And the state was initially not doing anything to the ex cop. But it just seems premature imo.

Well, if the state court acquits them, it pretty much destroys the feds' case. How can it have been a hate crime if it wasn't a crime?
The feds get an entirely new jury and get to retry the facts under the federal crime. It's sort of like the civil rights prosecution of the Medger Evers and Three voter registration workers killed in Miss during the 1960s.

True, but I still think that - unless the state trial decision looks really hinky - the fact of an acquittal on the state level would really damage the federal case.
 

Leo123

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Why? The friend who helped the McMichaels in their pursuit said Travis McMichaels used a racial slur while looking at Arbery bleeding out. Seems to me like a racism problem might very well be part of their motivation in this case.
Yeah 'the friend said' I swear, you'd believe anything as an excuse to bring up skin color. You are apparently are the racist one.
 

Cecilie1200

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Why? The friend who helped the McMichaels in their pursuit said Travis McMichaels used a racial slur while looking at Arbery bleeding out. Seems to me like a racism problem might very well be part of their motivation in this case.
Yeah 'the friend said' I swear, you'd believe anything as an excuse to bring up skin color. You are apparently are the racist one.


Special agent Richard Dial with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said during the hearing that Bryan said during a May 13 interview that he heard Travis McMichael say, "f---ing n-word" after Arbery had been shot.

Dial went on to say that Travis McMichael had also previously used the n-word on social media in January, allegedly responding to an unspecified Instagram post that it would have been better if someone had "blown the f---ing n-word's head off."


So yeah. The friend said. I swear, you'll dismiss anything as an excuse to believe what you've decided to believe.

You owe me an apology, but you aren't worthy to be allowed to give it. Dismissed, hack.
 

Cecilie1200

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I agree, and that appears to be exactly what the McMichaels did.
And, that is what you are doing as well. Think about it.

All I'm thinking about is that you sound like a leftist, calling people "racist" for disagreeing with you on this. But I'm done thinking about it, because I'm done noticing your left-think ass.
 

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