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3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia

Bush92

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
 
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NewsVine_Mariyam

NewsVine_Mariyam

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Special agent Richard Dial with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said during the hearing that Bryan said during a May 13 interview that he heard Travis McMichael say, "f---ing n-word" after Arbery had been shot.

Dial went on to say that Travis McMichael had also previously used the n-word on social media in January, allegedly responding to an unspecified Instagram post that it would have been better if someone had "blown the f---ing n-word's head off."


So yeah. The friend said. I swear, you'll dismiss anything as an excuse to believe what you've decided to believe.

You owe me an apology, but you aren't worthy to be allowed to give it. Dismissed, hack.
Special agent Richard Dial with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said during the hearing that Bryan said during a May 13 interview that he heard Travis McMichael say, "f---ing n-word" after Arbery had been shot.

Dial went on to say that Travis McMichael had also previously used the n-word on social media in January, allegedly responding to an unspecified Instagram post that it would have been better if someone had "blown the f---ing n-word's head off."


So yeah. The friend said. I swear, you'll dismiss anything as an excuse to believe what you've decided to believe.

You owe me an apology, but you aren't worthy to be allowed to give it. Dismissed, hack.
I went to your link, apparently you missed the word 'allegedly' right there in the article title. Also from that same article:

"So often the public accepts a narrative driven by an incomplete set of facts, one that vilifies a good person, based on a rush to judgment, which has happened in this case," said a statement quoting Laura Hogue, who with her husband, Frank Hogue, is representing Gregory McMichael."

I am saying that your attitude does not help or serve justice in any way. Let the men stand trial, let a jury decide their fate. Until then they are innocent unless proven guilty.
This is why you see the term "allegedly" used by the media:
Why do media refer to ‘alleged’ crimes even if the crime seems clear?
One of the fundamental tenets of our legal system is that people are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. In every case involving an allegation that a person has committed a crime, it poses a legal risk to assert they are guilty of that crime before a court has determined their guilt.

A media outlet might run the risk of being sued for defamation – which is a lawsuit seeking damages for publications that harm a person’s reputation – or being in contempt of court by influencing witnesses or people who may end up being on the jury in the case (see more on contempt below).

In crime reports, we make a clear distinction between a fact and an allegation. When a person is found dead, for example, it may be tempting to conclude they were murdered, and it may seem overly cautious to refer to an “alleged” murder. In almost all cases, however, it is not possible to say what crime has been committed until after a trial. There may be a death or even a killing, but was it murder, manslaughter, or neither?
Alleged crimes, obscured identities: how crime reports work
 
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NewsVine_Mariyam

NewsVine_Mariyam

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
Since when is the penalty for an alleged burglary summary execution?
 
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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
What the hell is a serial burglar?

Good thing he was carrying a screwdriver, you would be calling it a burglar tool.
 

Leo123

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Since when is the penalty for an alleged burglary summary execution?
There was no summary execution. Aubrey went for the guy's gun and got shot. Besides, who are you to be judge, jury and sentencer?
 

Utilitarian

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[Superbadbrutha]
How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.

First of all, I have not taken the stance of defending the McMichaels. I already replied to another poster that I don't care if they go to jail or not. It does look like they will be going to jail.

You could have fooled me.

When I said reports, I'm referring to the news coverage that has talked about the other trespassers. There was a previous incident on the property that involved a 911 call. I don't know if the property owner called it on a black guy or on someone else, but it was something mentioned in multiple articles early on when the Arbery incident first came to light.

Yea Travis McMichael claims he confronted a black dude.

And yes, I do know that whites steal guns too. The reason I brought up the gun theft is that it sounds like the McMichaels were on higher alert than normal after that event. Unfortunately, that led to them making some very poor decisions later on, but whether or not those decisions were specifically racist isn't known.

Yea it is known, you are just in denial.

Given what is known currently, making the argument that the McMichaels were murderous is substantially easier than suggesting they were specifically motivated by race. That requires a lot more evidence and analysis.

Edit: Man, the quotes tags are really screwed up now, and I don't know how to fix them.

The McMichaels and Bryan are 3 murdering, racist ass, hilly billys. Plain and simple.
You're pretty much the same as IM2. I'm not going to bother with you any further.
 

Utilitarian

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Cecilie1200 said:
I believe the main reason they're being charged with a hate crime is because their buddy and co-defendant said that Travis uttered a racial slur while looking down at the dying/dead Arbery after he shot him.
If that's the case, then there are likely a lot of cases of black people shooting white people that haven't been pursued as a hate crime.
 

Utilitarian

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
Since when is the penalty for an alleged burglary summary execution?
The penalty for an alleged burglary isn't execution, but it ought to be after several convictions of it.

Again, I'm not suggesting this justifies the actions of the McMichaels, however.
 

Utilitarian

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People have been lynching other people since 'time immemorial' too. According to you, that makes it O.K. and is a tradition that should continue.

The question is one of a fair trial. To hear you all speak of it if anyone says anything then there can be no fair trial. But that hasn’t been the case in history.

There have been cases in the press forever. One only happened because of the press. The death of John Geer. It took two years to charge the cop who shot John Geer in his doorway with his hands up.

The police department had done everything possible to prevent the prosecution. They quashed subpoenas from both the DA and the US Attorney claiming the incident was still under investigation. Finally the family raised enough money thanks to press reports to hire an attorney for the wrongful death lawsuit. The judge refused to quash the discovery.

The day after the discovery was delivered the DA got their first look at the files. And the charges were filed next.

Two years. If John Geer had shot a cop he would have been in prison serving his sentence before two years was up. The trial and probably first denied appeal would have been done already.

So the question is did the twelve jurors enter the case with open minds? Perhaps a few didn’t. But is that any different than any other case? How many times do at least one Juror walk in with previously held bias? I’d say it is likely in every case.

Remember the OJ trial and the complaints he couldn’t get a fair trial because of the press? We saw what happened. The “Dream Team” of the best defense attorneys in the nation systematically destroyed or cast doubt on every witness for the prosecution and every piece of evidence.

Do I think OJ did it? Privately. Yes. Would I have convicted based upon the trial? No. Because the defense did a fantastic job. Countering every witness brilliantly. The Prosecutor was thrust into a much larger pond and was way out of her league.

To this day people argue about that trial. They want to claim racism in the jury. But the truth is that the Defense wrote a new textbook and the prosecution got their asses handed to them. Catching the cops in lies made the evidence suspect. Making the gloves the absolute key evidence meant that when they didn’t fit the set looked weak.

In combat it is called inflicting your will on the enemy. Or momentum. In the trial the Prosecution spent more time trying to defend than attack.

Despite months of press reports that OJ killed his wife and the lover OJ got off.

The same was true of Zimmerman. I honestly believed that case was a coin toss. He was exonerated because of excellent work by the defense.

The problem with Chauvin wasn’t one idiotic juror. The problem with Chauvin was Chauvin. The same mannerisms and facial expression designed to make a cop look professional and dispassionate made him look withdrawn and hostile as a defendant.

Think about it. 12 jurors found him guilty in no time. They walked into the room leaning towards conviction. Why? For some. Perhaps they believed that Whitey deserved it. But for most it was the incongruous theory that Chauvin was not responsible when he knelt on a dying man.

For most people it would be like saying that yes I was holding the knife. Yes Bob got stabbed. But he ran into me. It wasn’t my fault.

Or claiming the gun just went off as you were pointing it at someone.

The defense argument looks and feels wrong. That is why IMO most of the jurors voted that way.

If Chauvin had been smart enough to get up off of Floyd as he was still alive. And Floyd died anyway. There never would have been charges. Much less a conviction. But Chauvin was a thug and a dumb one. So he went to prison. Get a new trial. Fine. But again you are convincing twelve people that Chauvin actions were not responsible for the death of the victim.

You are asking people to believe your words over their own eyes. And that is a hard sell my friend. It would take the OJ Dream Team to win that one. And even they would have a fifty fifty chance. At best.
The Chauvin case wasn't a fair trial, but that was never the intention to begin with. The problem is that we've reached a point where the media holds a lot of sway over how juries behave now.
 

Utilitarian

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Three questions.

1) What legal requirement did Arbury have to stop?
2) Why did the McMichaels stop in the middle of the road? What was their intention?
3) What crime did Gregory McMichaels witness that allowed him to set off in pursuit to in his words effect a citizens arrest?
1 question, why don't you want to wait for the trial? You into lynching or something?

That is exactly what this ridiculous affair is all about.....one of the most outrageous efforts to prosecute innocent men in our history provoked by the fallacious politics of 'wokeness' and akin to the political trials in Stalinist Russia.


First of all. Bullshit. People have been “tried in the press” since time immemorial. Are you saying some of the most famous trials or pursuits in history were tainted by wokeness? Some centuries or millennium before the term began?

Public support by people like yours for the McMichaels is no different than Public Support for Bonnie and Clyde.


The Lindbergh kidnapping. And the conspiracy theories that followed them for the rest of their lives.

Go back another century. The Courts Martial of William Cox.

People were retrying that case for a century and a half. And today the case is controversial. With many people having different opinions.


The main complaint I have against young people is the moronic ideal caused by ignorance that this has never happened before. Anyone who knows a little history should know similar things have happened.

The only difference is that instead of waiting days to read your idiocy in the newspaper as a letter to the editor we now get it moments later thanks to instant communication via the internet.

Stop pretending this is a new thing. It is just another layer of the big lie technique that you’ve been using through the entire thread.
While it is true that the press manipulating the public isn't new, what is new is the technology.

There didn't used to be social media or a 24 hour news cycle.
 

Faun

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Ok for all the new people to the thread. Let’s go over the facts. The defense for the McMichaels is that they were engaging in a legal Citizens Arrest. In order for that defense to be valid Arbury had to be committing a crime on that day. What crime was Arbury committing?
Trespassing-----------while casing the place for ANOTHER ROBBERY. He was already suspect to have stolen from the place.

Actually under Georgia Law. He wasn’t really Trespassing. Legal Precedent on that has restricted the ability to either arrest someone for that crime or have the police arrest them to the property owner or legally designated representative.

People come to construction sites. As long as they don’t take anything Trespassing isn’t really a crime that they can be charged with.

And as far as him being a suspect in another burglary it happened long before the shooting so it is not Germaine to the day either.

The purpose of Citizens Arrest was to allow someone to detain an individual caught in the act. It can hardly be said that a burglary weeks ago was “in the act”.


Next?

There are multiple videos of various people walking around on that construction site. Interesting how, as far as I can see, the only one that the McMichaels got their panties in a bunch over was the black guy. I don't recall hearing about them grabbing their guns and hopping in the truck to chase down the older white couple who were caught on video on that site, for example.
The whites were unknown to the McMichaels......try and use a lil bit of common sense...how you gonna chase or go after someone that you do not know who they are, where they are or where they live?

They only chased after Ahmaud because he was running by the McMichaels house and Greg got a phone call about an intruder on the property just before he saw Ahmaud running from that direction and he recognized Ahmaud from the security cam footage he had seen previously.

Geez....how much more stupid can you get???

I did not trust my memory. So I searched. I can’t find any reference to Larry English calling the McMichaels on the day of the shooting.

In fact. Larry English says that he never sent the video to the McMichaels.


So if nobody called the McMichaels why did they set off in pursuit?

As near as I can piece together from the rather jumbled reports about the timeline, the McMichaels saw a surveillance video of a black man on the construction site. At some point, Travis McMichaels took it upon himself to confront that black man, and the man ran away. Going by the McMichaels' talk of "string of burglaries", they thought that black man on the surveillance video was responsible for Travis' truck being broken into and his gun being stolen, although why they think it was him I have no idea, since there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the man on the surveillance video stole anything at any point in time. The McMichaels believed that Ahmaud Arbery was the same man on the surveillance video and that Travis confronted, although there also doesn't appear to be any evidence of that, either. On the basis of that, they decided to chase him down with guns.

You did not piece it together correctly.....you are one of those who come on here not knowing the facts and too lazy or tooooo fuken stooopid to bother to read what has been posted.

Irregardless.....i will lay it out for you correctly......Gregory McMichaels had previously seen the video of Ahmaud in the house under construction ....not on the day of the chase....

On the day of the chase and the killing of Ahmaud....Gregory McMichaels the father was out in front of his house working on his boat....he gets a call about an intruder being in the house under construction and that when the police were called the suspect took off running as the guilty are prone to do....then after the call-- almost immediately after.....he sees Ahmaud hauling ass down the street....Gregory recognized him from having seen him before on the Security Cam video.

Gregory hollers to his son Travis ........"Lets go....that's him" They then grab their guns for self defense and take off....they catch up to Ahmuad and pull alongside him as he jogs along....Gregory says to him ....'stop--we need to talk to you'......Ahmaud does not stop.
They do not get out of the truck and do not display their weapons

Then the McDaniels drive to a spot far ahead of Ahmaud on the route Ahmaud was jogging on.....they park the truck in the middle of the road and Gregory gets in the bed of the truck(because a child seat in the truck was in his way) he gets on the phone with 911 to advise them of the situation.

Travis his son gets out of the Truck with his shotgun and stands to left side of and to the front of the Trucks left front fender.

Essentially at this time they are waiting for the police to arrive .

Whilst Gregory is still on the phone to 911 Ahmaud finallly catches up with them.....he jogs to the right of the truck and then quickly darts across the front of the truck and attacks Travis....sustaining 3 gunshot wounds in the process of assaulting Travis....

Ahmaud slugged Travis several times and tried to get the Shotgun away from Travis.

Gregory is still in the back of the truck when he sees Ahmaud attack Travis....he dro;ps the phone and pulls out his pistol to help Travis...but Travis needs no help.

Ahmaud collapses and dies.
"Gregory McMichaels the father was out in front of his house working on his boat....he gets a call about an intruder being in the house under construction and that when the police were called the suspect took off running as the guilty are prone to do....then after the call-- almost immediately after.....he sees Ahmaud hauling ass down the street...."

Who knows where you come up with this shit?

McMichael said he was working on reupholstering something on his truck and he said nothing about getting a call just before he went chasing after Arbery...

 
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Faun

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Then this would not be a discussion board but a news site. And a bad one to boot.
We were not discussing the merits of this Forum we were discussing the incident in the OP and my question in this discussion was why you and others here are so quick to pass judgement when you don't have all the facts. One person here even attributed the incident to racism based on hearsay which, IMO is patently insane. I find it interesting that the very same folks who accuse others of racism are the ones always pointing to the color of other folks' skin but, I guess you don't want to discuss that.

Ok. The hearsay argument doesn’t work. Hearsay is this. If you heard from a third party that I said something. That is hearsay. If I said it to a someone and they say they heard it. That is not hearsay.

Bryant told the coos he heard Travis say it. That was part of Roddy’s official statement to the police. That is not hearsay. That is witness statement. That is absolutely admissible in court. It has been forever.

Now. You could argue the statement violated Miranda. But the courts have ruled many times that Miranda only applies if the person is a suspect. At the time Roddy wasn’t. Until he finished his statement.

Then there is the social media posts. Like many here Travis apparently used the word online. That is not hearsay either. Travis tried to delete those posts. That is destroying evidence isn’t it?

Dial the GBI investigator said they were still recovering Travis’s social media accounts during the first hearing.

Now like the OJ trial I think they are guilty. But unlike OJ they made extensive statements to the police. Now somewhere in this nation is the worst lawyer available. I mean he is terrible. He barely manages to get any money chasing ambulances. And that lawyer. The worst in the world. Will tell you to never talk to the cops without a lawyer.

Greg, Travis, and Roddy all spoke to the cops for hours.

This hamstrings the defense. Unlike OJ they can’t create a possible theory of drug gangs doing a revenge killing. Why? They killed Arbury on camera. They can’t claim Arbury came out of nowhere. They were waiting for him. Blocking his escape. Their own words. Not mine.

So the only defense they have left is if it was a valid citizens arrest or not. If it was they have a small matter of possible excessive force. But that isn’t as big of a deal as Murder. Worst case scenario is a couple years in prison.

If it was not a valid citizens arrest. Then the McMichaels and Roddy are fucked. Because all their action which could be stretching the definition of reasonable are now absolutely criminal.

And their actions are not in doubt. They talked about them for hours to the police.

So the first lesson we need to learn is obvious. Shut your fucking mouth and say nothing to the cops until you talk to a lawyer. Because laws overlap and conflict and which laws apply may depend on what you say and how you say it. The lawyer knows how to phrase those statements to keep you out of trouble.

How important is that? Well every state that has the police officers bill of rights has it as a requirement that police can not be questioned by other cops without a lawyer present.
Doubtful it was a legal citizen's arrest. That would have required Travis McMichael to have either observed Arbery committing a felony or at least have had an immediate knowledge he committed a felony....

And Travis was inside his house and saw nothing. Even worse for him, there's zero evidence Arbery committed a felony.

§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

The McMichaels are fucked and not in a good way.
 

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Ok. The hearsay argument doesn’t work. Hearsay is this. If you heard from a third party that I said something. That is hearsay. If I said it to a someone and they say they heard it. That is not hearsay.

Bryant told the coos he heard Travis say it. That was part of Roddy’s official statement to the police. That is not hearsay. That is witness statement. That is absolutely admissible in court. It has been forever.
Hearsay is testimony from a witness under oath who is reciting an out-of-court statement.
Roddy's testimony is not hearsay. He claims he heard it himself.
 

IM2

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
What you said is the bullshit lie.
 

IM2

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[Superbadbrutha]
How many other people did they confront on someone else's property? English never asked the McMichaels to confront someone on his property.

"It now appears that this young man may have been coming onto the property for water," J. Elizabeth Graddy, the attorney for homeowner Larry English, said in a statement. "There is a water source at the dock behind the house as well as a source near the front of the structure. Although these water sources do not appear within any of the cameras' frames, the young man moves to and from their locations."

Nothing had been stolen from the property, she said.

Graddy also shared a text exchange with ABC News, allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site.

"This text may be the reason [police] didn't arrest him because they knew they could be implicated as aiding and abetting in the crimes of the McMichaels," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Arbery's family.

Graddy said English had previously sent screenshots of people entering the property to police but never saw this text message and never contacted McMichael.

English noticed that people were entering the construction site because his phone would send him a push notification when a motion sensor was triggered, Graddy told ABC News.

The security video shows several different people entering the property, one appearing to be Arbery.

First of all, I have not taken the stance of defending the McMichaels. I already replied to another poster that I don't care if they go to jail or not. It does look like they will be going to jail.

You could have fooled me.

When I said reports, I'm referring to the news coverage that has talked about the other trespassers. There was a previous incident on the property that involved a 911 call. I don't know if the property owner called it on a black guy or on someone else, but it was something mentioned in multiple articles early on when the Arbery incident first came to light.

Yea Travis McMichael claims he confronted a black dude.

And yes, I do know that whites steal guns too. The reason I brought up the gun theft is that it sounds like the McMichaels were on higher alert than normal after that event. Unfortunately, that led to them making some very poor decisions later on, but whether or not those decisions were specifically racist isn't known.

Yea it is known, you are just in denial.

Given what is known currently, making the argument that the McMichaels were murderous is substantially easier than suggesting they were specifically motivated by race. That requires a lot more evidence and analysis.

Edit: Man, the quotes tags are really screwed up now, and I don't know how to fix them.

The McMichaels and Bryan are 3 murdering, racist ass, hilly billys. Plain and simple.
You're pretty much the same as IM2. I'm not going to bother with you any further.

And you're pretty much the same as the rest of the National Vanguard crew.

Superbad is right and you know it. Hence the white fragility.
 

IM2

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People have been lynching other people since 'time immemorial' too. According to you, that makes it O.K. and is a tradition that should continue.

The question is one of a fair trial. To hear you all speak of it if anyone says anything then there can be no fair trial. But that hasn’t been the case in history.

There have been cases in the press forever. One only happened because of the press. The death of John Geer. It took two years to charge the cop who shot John Geer in his doorway with his hands up.

The police department had done everything possible to prevent the prosecution. They quashed subpoenas from both the DA and the US Attorney claiming the incident was still under investigation. Finally the family raised enough money thanks to press reports to hire an attorney for the wrongful death lawsuit. The judge refused to quash the discovery.

The day after the discovery was delivered the DA got their first look at the files. And the charges were filed next.

Two years. If John Geer had shot a cop he would have been in prison serving his sentence before two years was up. The trial and probably first denied appeal would have been done already.

So the question is did the twelve jurors enter the case with open minds? Perhaps a few didn’t. But is that any different than any other case? How many times do at least one Juror walk in with previously held bias? I’d say it is likely in every case.

Remember the OJ trial and the complaints he couldn’t get a fair trial because of the press? We saw what happened. The “Dream Team” of the best defense attorneys in the nation systematically destroyed or cast doubt on every witness for the prosecution and every piece of evidence.

Do I think OJ did it? Privately. Yes. Would I have convicted based upon the trial? No. Because the defense did a fantastic job. Countering every witness brilliantly. The Prosecutor was thrust into a much larger pond and was way out of her league.

To this day people argue about that trial. They want to claim racism in the jury. But the truth is that the Defense wrote a new textbook and the prosecution got their asses handed to them. Catching the cops in lies made the evidence suspect. Making the gloves the absolute key evidence meant that when they didn’t fit the set looked weak.

In combat it is called inflicting your will on the enemy. Or momentum. In the trial the Prosecution spent more time trying to defend than attack.

Despite months of press reports that OJ killed his wife and the lover OJ got off.

The same was true of Zimmerman. I honestly believed that case was a coin toss. He was exonerated because of excellent work by the defense.

The problem with Chauvin wasn’t one idiotic juror. The problem with Chauvin was Chauvin. The same mannerisms and facial expression designed to make a cop look professional and dispassionate made him look withdrawn and hostile as a defendant.

Think about it. 12 jurors found him guilty in no time. They walked into the room leaning towards conviction. Why? For some. Perhaps they believed that Whitey deserved it. But for most it was the incongruous theory that Chauvin was not responsible when he knelt on a dying man.

For most people it would be like saying that yes I was holding the knife. Yes Bob got stabbed. But he ran into me. It wasn’t my fault.

Or claiming the gun just went off as you were pointing it at someone.

The defense argument looks and feels wrong. That is why IMO most of the jurors voted that way.

If Chauvin had been smart enough to get up off of Floyd as he was still alive. And Floyd died anyway. There never would have been charges. Much less a conviction. But Chauvin was a thug and a dumb one. So he went to prison. Get a new trial. Fine. But again you are convincing twelve people that Chauvin actions were not responsible for the death of the victim.

You are asking people to believe your words over their own eyes. And that is a hard sell my friend. It would take the OJ Dream Team to win that one. And even they would have a fifty fifty chance. At best.
The Chauvin case wasn't a fair trial, but that was never the intention to begin with. The problem is that we've reached a point where the media holds a lot of sway over how juries behave now.
Chauvin got a fair trial. Most people caught committing a crime on tape end up plea bargaining.
 

SavannahMann

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.

Ok. Define serial burglar. Because there was one reported burglary in the neighborhood before the shooting. One. And I think it is possible that the idiot Travis actually just lost the gun.
 

SavannahMann

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People have been lynching other people since 'time immemorial' too. According to you, that makes it O.K. and is a tradition that should continue.

The question is one of a fair trial. To hear you all speak of it if anyone says anything then there can be no fair trial. But that hasn’t been the case in history.

There have been cases in the press forever. One only happened because of the press. The death of John Geer. It took two years to charge the cop who shot John Geer in his doorway with his hands up.

The police department had done everything possible to prevent the prosecution. They quashed subpoenas from both the DA and the US Attorney claiming the incident was still under investigation. Finally the family raised enough money thanks to press reports to hire an attorney for the wrongful death lawsuit. The judge refused to quash the discovery.

The day after the discovery was delivered the DA got their first look at the files. And the charges were filed next.

Two years. If John Geer had shot a cop he would have been in prison serving his sentence before two years was up. The trial and probably first denied appeal would have been done already.

So the question is did the twelve jurors enter the case with open minds? Perhaps a few didn’t. But is that any different than any other case? How many times do at least one Juror walk in with previously held bias? I’d say it is likely in every case.

Remember the OJ trial and the complaints he couldn’t get a fair trial because of the press? We saw what happened. The “Dream Team” of the best defense attorneys in the nation systematically destroyed or cast doubt on every witness for the prosecution and every piece of evidence.

Do I think OJ did it? Privately. Yes. Would I have convicted based upon the trial? No. Because the defense did a fantastic job. Countering every witness brilliantly. The Prosecutor was thrust into a much larger pond and was way out of her league.

To this day people argue about that trial. They want to claim racism in the jury. But the truth is that the Defense wrote a new textbook and the prosecution got their asses handed to them. Catching the cops in lies made the evidence suspect. Making the gloves the absolute key evidence meant that when they didn’t fit the set looked weak.

In combat it is called inflicting your will on the enemy. Or momentum. In the trial the Prosecution spent more time trying to defend than attack.

Despite months of press reports that OJ killed his wife and the lover OJ got off.

The same was true of Zimmerman. I honestly believed that case was a coin toss. He was exonerated because of excellent work by the defense.

The problem with Chauvin wasn’t one idiotic juror. The problem with Chauvin was Chauvin. The same mannerisms and facial expression designed to make a cop look professional and dispassionate made him look withdrawn and hostile as a defendant.

Think about it. 12 jurors found him guilty in no time. They walked into the room leaning towards conviction. Why? For some. Perhaps they believed that Whitey deserved it. But for most it was the incongruous theory that Chauvin was not responsible when he knelt on a dying man.

For most people it would be like saying that yes I was holding the knife. Yes Bob got stabbed. But he ran into me. It wasn’t my fault.

Or claiming the gun just went off as you were pointing it at someone.

The defense argument looks and feels wrong. That is why IMO most of the jurors voted that way.

If Chauvin had been smart enough to get up off of Floyd as he was still alive. And Floyd died anyway. There never would have been charges. Much less a conviction. But Chauvin was a thug and a dumb one. So he went to prison. Get a new trial. Fine. But again you are convincing twelve people that Chauvin actions were not responsible for the death of the victim.

You are asking people to believe your words over their own eyes. And that is a hard sell my friend. It would take the OJ Dream Team to win that one. And even they would have a fifty fifty chance. At best.
The Chauvin case wasn't a fair trial, but that was never the intention to begin with. The problem is that we've reached a point where the media holds a lot of sway over how juries behave now.

The problem with the Chauvin trial was again Chauvin. Let’s summarize the cases of the prosecution and the defense.

Prosecution. Look at these videos. Look at how many. Look at the number of people who cried out for Chauvin to get off of him. Look at how many untrained and trained people recognized that Floyd was in distress. Listen to his own superiors demonstrate how he violated policNow decide if this man was responsible.

Defense. Ignore your eyes. Trust us. It was just a coincidence that Floyd died then.

Even those of us who do not have children were kids. And at some point we tried to lie our way out of trouble. No. I didn’t break that. It just fell. It was a coincidence that I was nearby when it happened.

It did not work when we were kids. It was never going to work for adults.

Now. I am probably going to surprise you. Chauvin was sacrificed.

Give that a moment to sink in. The truth is that they had 18 years of evidence that Chauvin was a thug. The problem is that the other cops behaved much the same way. And when they received a report or complaint they slapped his wrist while patting him on the back. They encouraged his brutal behavior.

Then when it went too far the same supervisors who patted him on the back rushed out to say how shocked they were and how his actions do not represent the fine men and women of the department.

He was sacrificed. But not to social media. Or the 24 hour news. But to maintain the illusion that there are a few bad apples giving the cops a bad name.
 
OP
NewsVine_Mariyam

NewsVine_Mariyam

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I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​
April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​
By Tim Fitzsimons​
Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​
Ahmaud Arbery.
Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family
Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​
William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​
Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.
The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​
The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.
Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​
Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​
Stop the bullshit lies. He was a serial burglar.
Since when is the penalty for an alleged burglary summary execution?
The penalty for an alleged burglary isn't execution, but it ought to be after several convictions of it.

Again, I'm not suggesting this justifies the actions of the McMichaels, however.
Well at least we can agree on this.
 
OP
NewsVine_Mariyam

NewsVine_Mariyam

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People have been lynching other people since 'time immemorial' too. According to you, that makes it O.K. and is a tradition that should continue.

The question is one of a fair trial. To hear you all speak of it if anyone says anything then there can be no fair trial. But that hasn’t been the case in history.

There have been cases in the press forever. One only happened because of the press. The death of John Geer. It took two years to charge the cop who shot John Geer in his doorway with his hands up.

The police department had done everything possible to prevent the prosecution. They quashed subpoenas from both the DA and the US Attorney claiming the incident was still under investigation. Finally the family raised enough money thanks to press reports to hire an attorney for the wrongful death lawsuit. The judge refused to quash the discovery.

The day after the discovery was delivered the DA got their first look at the files. And the charges were filed next.

Two years. If John Geer had shot a cop he would have been in prison serving his sentence before two years was up. The trial and probably first denied appeal would have been done already.

So the question is did the twelve jurors enter the case with open minds? Perhaps a few didn’t. But is that any different than any other case? How many times do at least one Juror walk in with previously held bias? I’d say it is likely in every case.

Remember the OJ trial and the complaints he couldn’t get a fair trial because of the press? We saw what happened. The “Dream Team” of the best defense attorneys in the nation systematically destroyed or cast doubt on every witness for the prosecution and every piece of evidence.

Do I think OJ did it? Privately. Yes. Would I have convicted based upon the trial? No. Because the defense did a fantastic job. Countering every witness brilliantly. The Prosecutor was thrust into a much larger pond and was way out of her league.

To this day people argue about that trial. They want to claim racism in the jury. But the truth is that the Defense wrote a new textbook and the prosecution got their asses handed to them. Catching the cops in lies made the evidence suspect. Making the gloves the absolute key evidence meant that when they didn’t fit the set looked weak.

In combat it is called inflicting your will on the enemy. Or momentum. In the trial the Prosecution spent more time trying to defend than attack.

Despite months of press reports that OJ killed his wife and the lover OJ got off.

The same was true of Zimmerman. I honestly believed that case was a coin toss. He was exonerated because of excellent work by the defense.

The problem with Chauvin wasn’t one idiotic juror. The problem with Chauvin was Chauvin. The same mannerisms and facial expression designed to make a cop look professional and dispassionate made him look withdrawn and hostile as a defendant.

Think about it. 12 jurors found him guilty in no time. They walked into the room leaning towards conviction. Why? For some. Perhaps they believed that Whitey deserved it. But for most it was the incongruous theory that Chauvin was not responsible when he knelt on a dying man.

For most people it would be like saying that yes I was holding the knife. Yes Bob got stabbed. But he ran into me. It wasn’t my fault.

Or claiming the gun just went off as you were pointing it at someone.

The defense argument looks and feels wrong. That is why IMO most of the jurors voted that way.

If Chauvin had been smart enough to get up off of Floyd as he was still alive. And Floyd died anyway. There never would have been charges. Much less a conviction. But Chauvin was a thug and a dumb one. So he went to prison. Get a new trial. Fine. But again you are convincing twelve people that Chauvin actions were not responsible for the death of the victim.

You are asking people to believe your words over their own eyes. And that is a hard sell my friend. It would take the OJ Dream Team to win that one. And even they would have a fifty fifty chance. At best.
The Chauvin case wasn't a fair trial, but that was never the intention to begin with. The problem is that we've reached a point where the media holds a lot of sway over how juries behave now.
What was unfair about it?
 

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