2012 NBA Playoffs

[High_Gravity]

The Lakers would have to play better than they have all year to beat OKC. And I think Bynum would have to play like Dwight Howard for an entire series. I don't see that happening.

Bynum would have to play like Dwight Howard for the whole series, Gasol would have to be on and Kobe would have to revert back to 2007 form. Their bench also has to produce and I don't see that.

Kobe's not reverting. He's a mid range shooter that rarely gets to the hoop any more. He doesn't have the legs any more.

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Bynum would have to play like Dwight Howard for the whole series, Gasol would have to be on and Kobe would have to revert back to 2007 form. Their bench also has to produce and I don't see that.

Kobe's not reverting. He's a mid range shooter that rarely gets to the hoop any more. He doesn't have the legs any more.

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[High_Gravity]

Kobe's not reverting. He's a mid range shooter that rarely gets to the hoop any more. He doesn't have the legs any more.

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

Jordan in his prime would chase Kobe and Lebron out of the gym today though, that much is true.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

Jordan in his prime would chase Kobe and Lebron out of the gym today though, that much is true.

Jordan was marginally better than Kobe on offense and significantly better on defense when he wanted to be. Lebron probably cant jump as high as Jordan but in every other respect he's more athletic. That's what makes him something of a disappointment. If he worked on his mid range game, he'd easily be much greater than he is. Instead he has to drive to the rim and hope that Stern's company men bail him out.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh no doubt, if Pierce/Garnett/Allen got together in their mid 20s they'd have at least 3 rings by now.

Not if they had to play a Harden, Durant and Westbrook at their peak. We haven't even seen it yet. The year Piece, Allen and Garnett won was their peak. Its over.

KG at his peak was much more of an all around player than Durant. Durant's just a shooter. Allen was a team leader that could get teams to the playoffs, Harden would not be if he was "the man." And Pierce could get to the rim way more than Westbrook ever could. He's too fragile.

OKC is a fun watch, but let's keep in perspective. They aren't as great as putting pretty much any three elite players in their prime together.

I say OK is the future of the NBA and Durant is going to eventually be put in the top 50 players of all time.

Are you watching him beat up on Kobe? Its reminding me of Tyson vs. Holmes or Tyson vs. Spinks. Time for the old generation to move on. I hope Durant beats LeBron 5 out of 6 times in the next 6 years. Lebron can have one ring.

 

[sealybobo]

Nah. Memphis just choked Game 1 and Game 7 at home. You're reading way too much into it. And I'd easily vote for Parker over Paul. He was the leading PG and player on the dominant team.

If they can make the Spurs compete than we will know if they are for real or not, if the Spurs work them in 4 or 5 games than yeah you are right.

We know he's for real. Williams, Rondo, Paul and Parker are probably the top 4 PG's. I just don't think the Clippers overall are nearly as good as the Spurs though.

Parker is still quick and so Paul won't get into the lane as much as he would in other series. That'll allow Spurs defenders to stay at home on the wings. I think that'd mean Blake Griffin would have to step up. Blake Griffin does not have a comprehensive game yet though. Spurs should win in 4 or 5. I'm hoping 4 so that they conserve their health for what should be a really good OKC match-up.

What about Nash and Jeremy Lin?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Not if they had to play a Harden, Durant and Westbrook at their peak. We haven't even seen it yet. The year Piece, Allen and Garnett won was their peak. Its over.

KG at his peak was much more of an all around player than Durant. Durant's just a shooter. Allen was a team leader that could get teams to the playoffs, Harden would not be if he was "the man." And Pierce could get to the rim way more than Westbrook ever could. He's too fragile.

OKC is a fun watch, but let's keep in perspective. They aren't as great as putting pretty much any three elite players in their prime together.

I say OK is the future of the NBA and Durant is going to eventually be put in the top 50 players of all time.

Are you watching him beat up on Kobe? Its reminding me of Tyson vs. Holmes or Tyson vs. Spinks. Time for the old generation to move on. I hope Durant beats LeBron 5 out of 6 times in the next 6 years. Lebron can have one ring.

Durant's frail and he's not a complete player. I agree that OKC is maybe the best team this year. But it's too early to say how good they'll be year after year; especially when Westbrook is a shoot first PG and team's can contain him better than say a Rondo.

 

[sealybobo]

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

Jordan in his prime would chase Kobe and Lebron out of the gym today though, that much is true.

Jordan was marginally better than Kobe on offense and significantly better on defense when he wanted to be. Lebron probably cant jump as high as Jordan but in every other respect he's more athletic. That's what makes him something of a disappointment. If he worked on his mid range game, he'd easily be much greater than he is. Instead he has to drive to the rim and hope that Stern's company men bail him out.

I heard that Jordan and Magic had a 3 way with LeBron's mom and that's how LeBron was conceived. He got a little bit of both their talents but none of their ability to win.

 

[sealybobo]

KG at his peak was much more of an all around player than Durant. Durant's just a shooter. Allen was a team leader that could get teams to the playoffs, Harden would not be if he was "the man." And Pierce could get to the rim way more than Westbrook ever could. He's too fragile.

OKC is a fun watch, but let's keep in perspective. They aren't as great as putting pretty much any three elite players in their prime together.

I say OK is the future of the NBA and Durant is going to eventually be put in the top 50 players of all time.

Are you watching him beat up on Kobe? Its reminding me of Tyson vs. Holmes or Tyson vs. Spinks. Time for the old generation to move on. I hope Durant beats LeBron 5 out of 6 times in the next 6 years. Lebron can have one ring.

Durant's frail and he's not a complete player. I agree that OKC is maybe the best team this year. But it's too early to say how good they'll be year after year; especially when Westbrook is a shoot first PG and team's can contain him better than say a Rondo.

Westbrook has improved a lot since last year. Admit it. Harden is a great piece to a championship puzzle.

Too skinny? I got two words for you. Bill Russell.

Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven NBA Championships during Russell's thirteen-year career.

I say Durant is that good. Mark my words. LeBron will be lucky to win one.

 

[sealybobo]

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

Jordan in his prime would chase Kobe and Lebron out of the gym today though, that much is true.

If they played HORSE, Kobe couldn't win because he only knows Jordan's moves so Jordan wouldn't ever miss a shot and Lebron would beat both of them until the E and then he would choke.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I say OK is the future of the NBA and Durant is going to eventually be put in the top 50 players of all time.

Are you watching him beat up on Kobe? Its reminding me of Tyson vs. Holmes or Tyson vs. Spinks. Time for the old generation to move on. I hope Durant beats LeBron 5 out of 6 times in the next 6 years. Lebron can have one ring.

Durant's frail and he's not a complete player. I agree that OKC is maybe the best team this year. But it's too early to say how good they'll be year after year; especially when Westbrook is a shoot first PG and team's can contain him better than say a Rondo.

Westbrook has improved a lot since last year. Admit it. Harden is a great piece to a championship puzzle.

Too skinny? I got two words for you. Bill Russell.

Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven NBA Championships during Russell's thirteen-year career.

I say Durant is that good. Mark my words. LeBron will be lucky to win one.

Russell was a tough SOB that was all over the place on defense and maybe the best defender ever. Durant is a fragile poll that does nothing on defense. How can you even compare them?

And Westbrook is not a great decision maker. It's easy while they're out athletic'ing teams. But what's going to happen when he plays a very disciplined Spurs or more athletic Heat? He'll run into issues.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

Jordan in his prime would chase Kobe and Lebron out of the gym today though, that much is true.

If they played HORSE, Kobe couldn't win because he only knows Jordan's moves so Jordan wouldn't ever miss a shot and Lebron would beat both of them until the E and then he would choke.

There are frankly a lot of players that would beat Jordan or Kobe in a game of horse. Bird, Allen or Miller would probably beat both of them in 10 shots or less.

 

[sealybobo]

Kobe's not reverting. He's a mid range shooter that rarely gets to the hoop any more. He doesn't have the legs any more.

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

I can only go by what I remember. From the early 1980's

It goes Jordan, and then Kobe, Magic, then Bird in that order.

Greatest Centers of my time? Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo but I know Wilt Chamberlan is the greatest.

 

[sealybobo]

Durant's frail and he's not a complete player. I agree that OKC is maybe the best team this year. But it's too early to say how good they'll be year after year; especially when Westbrook is a shoot first PG and team's can contain him better than say a Rondo.

Westbrook has improved a lot since last year. Admit it. Harden is a great piece to a championship puzzle.

Too skinny? I got two words for you. Bill Russell.

Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven NBA Championships during Russell's thirteen-year career.

I say Durant is that good. Mark my words. LeBron will be lucky to win one.

Russell was a tough SOB that was all over the place on defense and maybe the best defender ever. Durant is a fragile poll that does nothing on defense. How can you even compare them?

And Westbrook is not a great decision maker. It's easy while they're out athletic'ing teams. But what's going to happen when he plays a very disciplined Spurs or more athletic Heat? He'll run into issues.

Can't wait to find out if you are right!

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Kobe fans, Heat fans; generally all those fairweather wankers are morons. Basletball fans in general aren't that smart.

It was the same thing back in the day with Jordan jockers. Now you have an entire generation that believes the corporate illusion that Jordan was the undisputed greatest ever and nothing could be further from the truth.

I can only go by what I remember. From the early 1980's

It goes Jordan, and then Kobe, Magic, then Bird in that order.

Greatest Centers of my time? Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo but I know Wilt Chamberlan is the greatest.

Kobe doesn't belong in the same breath as Bird or Jordan. And Magic really elevated his game about 87 that he has a case to be in the convo with Bird and Jordan; but I'd put him under those two.

Bird and Jordan both shot about 5 percent higher than Kobe, which is huge for a "wing" player (SF/SG). Look at what Kobe was doing when there was no Shaq or Gasol. Jacking up about 28 shots a game for numbers and going 37-45 in the true spirit of Jordan w/o Pippen.

Also, Bird and Jordan are top 100 defensive players statistically and IMO, Bird is the most under-rated defender of all-time. No player affected defenses with double teams, quick hands (quickest hands ever - Bobby Knight) and playing passing lanes more than Bird.

Bare in mind that Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen and he had 5 losing seasons w/o Pippen. Not only that, they were a bad call away from returning to a championship after he retired. Bird on the other hand never won less than 51 games even with a bad back.

And if you need more, Bird beat Jordan 14 times in a row, including tow playoff sweeps and the second sweep was in Chicago, a 4th quarter comeback from 9 points down with no McHale with Bird scoring 15 4th Q pts and Jordan missing every shot.

So what's the difference? Why the discrepancy in greatness opinions? Simple: Corporate interests. Gatorade, Nike, Hanes, Disney, etc. Viewership was way up under Jordan. It was in their monetary interest to say there was no debate and bury the history of the game of mindless teenagers to believe it.

Watch 80's games; a ton of them on YT and watch all the ways in which Bird controls a game. Watch all the ways that he makes his teammates better. That's the crazy thing. He had the shot and skills to average 40 if he wanted, but he always focused on keeping his teammates involved.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

^^^

Greatest Centers.

I think Wilt was really good; he certainly was statistically. But how'd he fare when the pressure was on against Russell? Russell always owned him. And he was a 7 footer playing in a much smaller league. I'm not sure how great he'd really be in today's game. I do believe he was athletic and he'd definitely be an all star and an MVP candidate.

Shaq - easily the most domineering. If he had developed his offensive game earlier, he would have had more rings. He shot a ridiculous 68 percent in his last year at a time when he could no longer dominate.

Duncan I consider more of a PF although he has effectively played C much of the time. I'd put him ahead of Shaq but it's close. Duncan has a better skill set, but there was a few years there that teams had to double and triple team him and Fox, Fisher, Kobe, Horry literally camped out on the arc and got wide open three's. That's what the made Kings so dangerous when Vlade said screw that, I can play you w/o the double team. All of the sudden they had to play a more skilled team too.

Kareem; best offensive center. That sky hook was indefensible. Only his own fatigue could stop it. But he loses points for defense. He's definitely top 5 though; especially when you consider his durability.

Olajuwon maybe was the best ever. I'd take him or Russell. I'd probably have to take Russell b/c of his defense. But Olajuwon or Kareem were the best offensive center and Olajuwon was the better defender than Kareem.

Also, you forgo the Admiral. He's up there too. It's hard to defend a center that's making 18 foot jumpers from the elbow or that can drive. And his defense was great too.

 

[sealybobo]

Bynum would have to play like Dwight Howard for the whole series, Gasol would have to be on and Kobe would have to revert back to 2007 form. Their bench also has to produce and I don't see that.

Kobe's not reverting. He's a mid range shooter that rarely gets to the hoop any more. He doesn't have the legs any more.

His fans still speak of him as if hes still the same player from 2006-2007.

Well he did almost win the scoring title this year. Could have if he wanted to. Pretty good for an old man. Jordan came back and sucked as an old man. Washington Bullets. Remember that? I gave him a pass though. That didn't taint his image imo. I still think Jordan is the greatest. He's one of the people I would love to meet. Obama, The Rock, Jordan, James Taylor, Clinton of course, Chris Farley, Will Farrell, Howard Stern. Women Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Rianna & Serena Williams.

 

[sealybobo]

^^^

Greatest Centers.

I think Wilt was really good; he certainly was statistically. But how'd he fare when the pressure was on against Russell? Russell always owned him. And he was a 7 footer playing in a much smaller league. I'm not sure how great he'd really be in today's game. I do believe he was athletic and he'd definitely be an all star and an MVP candidate.

Shaq - easily the most domineering. If he had developed his offensive game earlier, he would have had more rings. He shot a ridiculous 68 percent in his last year at a time when he could no longer dominate.

Duncan I consider more of a PF although he has effectively played C much of the time. I'd put him ahead of Shaq but it's close. Duncan has a better skill set, but there was a few years there that teams had to double and triple team him and Fox, Fisher, Kobe, Horry literally camped out on the arc and got wide open three's. That's what the made Kings so dangerous when Vlade said screw that, I can play you w/o the double team. All of the sudden they had to play a more skilled team too.

Kareem; best offensive center. That sky hook was indefensible. Only his own fatigue could stop it. But he loses points for defense. He's definitely top 5 though; especially when you consider his durability.

Olajuwon maybe was the best ever. I'd take him or Russell. I'd probably have to take Russell b/c of his defense. But Olajuwon or Kareem were the best offensive center and Olajuwon was the better defender than Kareem.

Also, you forgo the Admiral. He's up there too. It's hard to defend a center that's making 18 foot jumpers from the elbow or that can drive. And his defense was great too.

I had the Admiral but took him off. Thought that was a bit of a stretch.

Kobe just got his ass kicked. How will the Lakers respond? The Lakers are about to blow up. This is why I love the NBA. What will happen next? Will Kobe get traded to another team? He would make any other team an instant contender, except maybe the Pistons of course. But I wouldn't want to stay if I were Kobe. What will the West look like next year? Stay tuned.

PS. The Celtics can't even beat the 76ers? Is this a new era of the NBA finally? I couldn't name one player on that team and they beat the beat up Celtics? Time to blow up the Celtics too. What will the East look like next year? Stay tuned.

 

[Papageorgio]

The best players of all time: Jordan, and I hated the player. Magic, Bird and Kobe. Best center, tough choices, Chamberlin, Jabbar and Russell and given the day, they are interchangeable. James, he is in there as a sixth man.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

^^^

Greatest Centers.

I think Wilt was really good; he certainly was statistically. But how'd he fare when the pressure was on against Russell? Russell always owned him. And he was a 7 footer playing in a much smaller league. I'm not sure how great he'd really be in today's game. I do believe he was athletic and he'd definitely be an all star and an MVP candidate.

Shaq - easily the most domineering. If he had developed his offensive game earlier, he would have had more rings. He shot a ridiculous 68 percent in his last year at a time when he could no longer dominate.

Duncan I consider more of a PF although he has effectively played C much of the time. I'd put him ahead of Shaq but it's close. Duncan has a better skill set, but there was a few years there that teams had to double and triple team him and Fox, Fisher, Kobe, Horry literally camped out on the arc and got wide open three's. That's what the made Kings so dangerous when Vlade said screw that, I can play you w/o the double team. All of the sudden they had to play a more skilled team too.

Kareem; best offensive center. That sky hook was indefensible. Only his own fatigue could stop it. But he loses points for defense. He's definitely top 5 though; especially when you consider his durability.

Olajuwon maybe was the best ever. I'd take him or Russell. I'd probably have to take Russell b/c of his defense. But Olajuwon or Kareem were the best offensive center and Olajuwon was the better defender than Kareem.

Also, you forgo the Admiral. He's up there too. It's hard to defend a center that's making 18 foot jumpers from the elbow or that can drive. And his defense was great too.

I had the Admiral but took him off. Thought that was a bit of a stretch.

Kobe just got his ass kicked. How will the Lakers respond? The Lakers are about to blow up. This is why I love the NBA. What will happen next? Will Kobe get traded to another team? He would make any other team an instant contender, except maybe the Pistons of course. But I wouldn't want to stay if I were Kobe. What will the West look like next year? Stay tuned.

PS. The Celtics can't even beat the 76ers? Is this a new era of the NBA finally? I couldn't name one player on that team and they beat the beat up Celtics? Time to blow up the Celtics too. What will the East look like next year? Stay tuned.

The C's beat themselves when they went 2-16 during a 3rd Q stretch. I believe they have a shot; but yea this could be their last shot unless they get a free agent signing or have a great draft. Ray's probably gone and Pierce, KG will be another year older. Personally, I think Pierce should lose 20 pounds in the offseason. That could keep them competitive.