0th anniversary of VJ Day: Thank the atomic bomb for saving millions of lives

[Jarlaxle]

A-bomb, nuclear WMD that only America has been murderous enough to use as weapon of terror on two entirely civilian target resulting in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands...

The deaths of civilians ended the war. We should do this in the Middle East now.

They are not at war with you, you are at war with them...

You are an idiot. Kill yourself.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Your entire post was a speculation on fantasy.
Fact is you never once considered how many people would have died has we completely cut japan off from the outside world and waited for them to surrender -- not once.
Now, consider your answer to that question and then tell us how terrible it was to drop the bombs.

Useless specualtion ....and diversion.

You and I both understand that you do not want to soundly address the question I asked because doing so will negate the point you tried to make - I therefore accept your concession.

Compared to any realistic alternative, dropping the bombs saved American and Japanese lives.
The sooner you accept that, the better off you are.

LMAO...you ask me to debunk a fantasy scenario you made up in your own mind...

Starving them into surrender is YOUR scenario, bub.
YOU neglected to consuder the costs of doing that and got caught.

LMAO...you're still basing your whole argument on fantasy and speculation.

nuking innocent civilians is preferential to accepting a conditional surrender is your position. got it.

Absolutely yes! Surrender terms should NEVER be negotiated! Surrender terms should be DICTATED! As in: this is what is GOING to happen. If you do not like it, tough shit!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I know..it's SO obvious that it went right over your head..

Glad to see you understand citing the existence of alternatives is, in and of itself, meaningless.
Why should have we blockaded Japan rather than invading or dropping the bombs?

That's easy.
To retain the moral high ground as civilized people...

How, exactly, does blockading Japan and starving them into submission allow us to retain the 'moral high ground"?

sieges and blockades had been used for centuries to effectively break down the will of an enemy without having to attack them in a full frontal assault. That's the purpose of blockades and sieges..
look...make all the excuses you want.
Most civilized people acknowledge that purposely targeting and murdering civilians is wrong....some people also believe that nuking civilians is wrong too.
You don't. Fine..carry on....no need to play word games about it. Own it.

Blockades and sieges are certainly tactics of warfare. They were not suited for this situation. That was a military evaluation made by the military people responsible for defeating Japan and the military personnel who would be ordering and invasion that experts predicted would cost hundreds of thousand of US military killed and hundreds of thousands more being maimed and injured. Easy for the philosophers to sit back over 75 years later and speculate about fantasy options.
Some guys decided the WWII crap and the death and destruction had to stop. They were given the means and they stopped the WWII crap of death and destruction. Two bombs, war over. No more firebombings and no more need to send all those American boys to their deaths.

Not to mention: had the bombs NOT been used, and the fact they COULD have been used got out, Truman thought (probably correctly) that it would get him impeached!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Your proposed solution would have starved to death millions of civilians. That is not a guess or fantasy it is a fact. You claiming otherwise is a lie and ridiculous.

Even with US aid, 1945-46 was a lean winter for Japan.

 

[Unkotare]

Wrong again.

.

 

[AZrailwhale]

A-bomb, nuclear WMD that only America has been murderous enough to use as weapon of terror on two entirely civilian target resulting in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands...

Neither was a civilian target. Hiroshima was a major naval port, construction yard and military base. The Yamato was built there as well as many Japanese warships and the shipyard was churning out suicide subs and motorboats to kill American invaders. Nagasaki was the same thing; Musashi was built there as were many Japanese warships and it was churning out suicide subs and boats.

 

[2aguy]

Neither was a civilian target. Hiroshima was a major naval port, construction yard and military base. The Yamato was built there as well as many Japanese warships and the shipyard was churning out suicide subs and motorboats to kill American invaders. Nagasaki was the same thing; Musashi was built there as were many Japanese warships and it was churning out suicide subs and boats.

Thanks, I never knew that.........kinda ends that argument about Hiroshima being a civillian target....

The keel of Yamato, the lead ship of the class,[7] was laid down at the Kure Naval Arsenal, Hiroshima, on 4 November 1937, in a dockyard that had to be adapted to accommodate her enormous hull.[8][9] The dock was deepened by one meter, and gantry cranes capable of lifting up to 350 tonnes were installed.[8][10] Extreme secrecy was maintained throughout construction,[8][11] a canopy even being erected over part of the drydock to screen the ship from view.[12] Yamato was launched on 8 August 1940, with Captain (later Vice-Admiral) Miyazato Shutoku in command.[13] A great effort was made in Japan to ensure the ships were built in extreme secrecy to prevent American intelligence officials from learning of their existence and specifications.[8][11]

Japanese battleship Yamato - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Unkotare]

Hiroshima and the Myths of Military Targets and Unconditional Surrender

Every year, in early August, new articles appear that debate whether the dropping of the atomic bombs in 1945 was justified. Earlier this month, the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks, was no exception.

www.lawfareblog.com

Hiroshima - the truth about the bombing -

Written by Kate Hudson The city of Hiroshima stands on a flat river delta on the Japanese island of Honshu. At quarter past eight on the morning of 6 August 1945, the US plane Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb on the city centre, a busy residential and business district, crowded with people going...

cnduk.org

 

[Unkotare]

"It was also claimed that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets. Again, this just wasn’t true. Hiroshima was home to the Japanese Second Army HQ, but it was primarily a big city with a huge civilian population. About 10,000 of the total 200,000 deaths in Hiroshima were military personnel. Nagasaki had no military units and, of the total 140,000 deaths there, only about 150 were military. In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"It was also claimed that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets. Again, this just wasn’t true. Hiroshima was home to the Japanese Second Army HQ, but it was primarily a big city with a huge civilian population. About 10,000 of the total 200,000 deaths in Hiroshima were military personnel. Nagasaki had no military units and, of the total 140,000 deaths there, only about 150 were military. In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

they were production centers and ports which made them military targets.

 

[Mac-7]

they were production centers and ports which made them military targets.

Its sad that Unkotare is a teacher who has free reign to poison the minds of his students

 

[Unkotare]

"The first myth was started by President Harry Truman when he announced on Aug. 9, 1945, that “the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base … because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians.” Truman argued, in other words, that Hiroshima was a military target. Although Hiroshima contained some military-related industrial facilities—an army headquarters and troop-loading docks—the vibrant city of over a quarter of a million men, women and children was hardly “a military base.” Indeed, less than 10 percent of the individuals killed on Aug. 6, 1945, were Japanese military personnel."

 

[AZrailwhale]

"It was also claimed that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets. Again, this just wasn’t true. Hiroshima was home to the Japanese Second Army HQ, but it was primarily a big city with a huge civilian population. About 10,000 of the total 200,000 deaths in Hiroshima were military personnel. Nagasaki had no military units and, of the total 140,000 deaths there, only about 150 were military. In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

What about the naval base, the naval construction yard, the military headquarters and all the war material factories? Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just as much military targets as London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, and much more so than Warsaw, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Rangoon, Mandalay, Antwerp, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Southhampton. There wasn't a major city in China, Burma, Malaysia, the UK, France, the Netherlands or Belgium that wasn't bombed by the Axis. The attitude on both sides of the war was that civilians built the sinews of the war machine, so they were valid military targets. Both the Luftwaffe and RAF had official positions that "dehousing" civilian workers was a laudable objective and not against the rules of warfare.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What about the naval base, the naval construction yard, the military headquarters and all the war material factories? Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just as much military targets as London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, and much more so than Warsaw, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Rangoon, Mandalay, Antwerp, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Southhampton. There wasn't a major city in China, Burma, Malaysia, the UK, France, the Netherlands or Belgium that wasn't bombed by the Axis. The attitude on both sides of the war was that civilians built the sinews of the war machine, so they were valid military targets. Both the Luftwaffe and RAF had official positions that "dehousing" civilian workers was a laudable objective and not against the rules of warfare.

You're wasting your time - he is immune to reality.

 

[Unkotare]

"In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

 

[2aguy]

"In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

I am sure the 3-10 million civilians murdered by the Japanese during the war sympathize with this..........they were not collateral combat deaths, simply civilians murdered by the Japanese troops.

R.J. Rummel....cited in the following piece is an expert in Government mass murder statistics.....


The estimated number of people killed by Japanese troops vary. R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, estimates that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly three to over ten million people, most likely six million Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including European, American and Australian prisoners of war. According to Rummel, "This democide [i.e., death by government] was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture."[1] According to Rummel, in China alone, from 1937 to 1945, approximately 3.9 million Chinese were killed, mostly civilians, as a direct result of the Japanese operations and a total of 10.2 million Chinese were killed in the course of the war.[67] According to the British historian M. R. D. Foot, civilian deaths were between 10 million and 20 million.[68] Some historians claim that up to 30 million people were killed, most of them civilians.[69]

According to British historian Mark Felton:

Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Unkotare]

I am sure the 3-10 million civilians murdered by the Japanese during the war sympathize with this..........

I hold THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to a higher standard than you seem to.

 

[Unkotare]

Some people here seem to think we used the atomic bombs as an act of revenge on behalf of China.

 

[AZrailwhale]

"In total, over 95 per cent of the combined casualties of the two cities were civilian."

And those civilians supported the war economy of Japan just like the British, Italian, Russian and German civilians supported their war economy and were killed in massed bombing raids by both Allied and Axis aircraft. US civilians also supported the war effort, remember "Rosie the rivetter"? Fortunately, most American citizens were immune to direct losses from the war with the exception of the five children and their caretaker killed by a Japanese "Balloon Bomb" in 1945. The Japanese were planning to end that immunity, the designed cargo for the Balloon Bombs was biological warfare germs and incendiaries. They launched nine thousand bombs loaded with incendiaries, a thousand of which reached North America. They have been found in Canada, Mexico and as far east in the USA as Michigan.

 

[Unkotare]

Again, someone doesn't seem to think very much of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which I hold to a higher standard than our enemies during wartime. Do you wish we had thrown Germans into ovens after winning the war in Europe? I think we'd a lot better than that. I guess you don't.