Ya know? How about an honest discussion.

[wvpeach]

And it seems your all for HR 3200 toomuchtime which by the by the way includes a public option to drive down costs from private insurers.

You can never, EVER drive down costs by greatly increasing demand without greatly increasing supply. The exact opposite will happen. Why is everyone ignoring the definitely non-partisan CBO these days?

And it's not a public option, it's mandatory. Or, they tax the piss out of you. Penalize you.

True to a certain extent. My son is a doctor and my daughter a pharmacist. I know a bit about the medical profession. True we have a shortage of doctors and nurses in this nation. That shortage exists now and will only be made worse by universal care.

But that doesn't mean we should allow that shortage to continue . What it means is that we have not been smart enough and forward thinking enough to provide tuition relief for doctors and nurses at the levels we should have been doing all along.

Tell me midnight.

If it becomes apparent that Americans will starve to death if we don't start growing more food then wouldn't you say we have a logical, ethical and moral responsibility to get out and grow more food so we don't have Americans starving to death?

Yes................... Yes we should you say midnight?

Well, then it's the exact same thing with health care facilities, doctors and nurses. People die in this country from lack of medical care. I know two people personally that died because they could not get medical care. And through no fault of their own. Their steel plant had closed up and moved over seas leaving them with no medical care when they happened to come down with cancer and heart disease.

You don't throw up your hands and say we can't do it when it comes to life and death.
You figure out how it can be done.

 

[G.T.]

I am "engaging" your obvious dishonesty and your complete lack of any grasp of irony. Oh and your total, towering lack of intellectual honesty, even with yourself.

You want old people to just hurry up and die already. Ageism bigots like you make me ashamed I joined you in voting for Obama!

Well,

When you're wrong on all accounts in one post, I could ignore it......tell the truth which subsequently, and baselessly, is called a lie, or continue on playing with ya. Hmm. I have to ponder this.

 

[MaggieMae]

Not true . Obviously you don't watch much c-span. You should start toomuchtime since you have so much time on your hands c-span is a good place to spend it.

Study after study has been done for decades about the economic benefits to the entire country if we adopt universal healthcare. Major organizations , universities and the AMA , including the states, all know universal health care will drive down costs and save money after being implemented for the first couple of years. .................

To be clear, the studies that show universal coverage would be cheaper are in the hundreds and have been done by non partisans over the last decade.

And, had you been watching c-span you would have seen dozens of hearing on health care up on capital hill. Insurers, medical groups, doctors, economists on committee after committee up on capital hill testifying about the best way to drive down health care costs . Which by the way, always starts with getting everybody covered so the insured aren't having to pick up the bill for the uninsured.

To be clear had you watched c-span you would have seen literally thousands of hours of studies on this health care issue.

So it's simply a right wing lie & talking point to say that this is all being rushed through. That is a lie. This issue has been worked on for a decade and since President Obama took office he has brought all the players to capital hill and held hundreds of hours of meetings about how to best get this done.

Problem being the mainstream media and right wingers as well as some on the left realize that the average American has the attention span of a gnat and if it's not American Idol , some goofy reality TV show , Nascar or sports Americans aren't watching.

That lets the pundits on both sides especially the right side, get away with telling outright lies. Because they know the American people most likely haven't been paying attention.

To stop this politicians and citizens need to be able to sue for these lies being told.
Back in the day politicians did sue if a newspaper lied about them and often caused the newspapers to have to retract the lies and kept them in check in the future.

Perhaps we need to return to that policy and situate laws so that if a pundit is lying they can easily be taken to court and pay out big damages. Because we certainly have a whole lot of lying going on on national TV. Especially Fox news.

another factor that prevents discussion if the 'dumbing' of americans.....people wont or dont read or research anything....so they have to go by some trumped up party line...hiding behind partisan shit allows people to "think" they know what they are talking about when they only know what the are 'parroting' this concept applies to both parties and all people regardless of political party... we have become to lazy to govern ourselves...too lazy to read...we must be spoon feed facts by punits.

I don't think the fault lies with the American people but with the leadership of the Democratic Party. When our cheerleader-in-chief announced he wanted House and Senate bills out of committee before the summer recess and a bill signed into law before the 2010 campaign season began because the issue was too urgent to waste time in careful study, honest disclosure of costs or open debate, he set the stage for the circus that has followed. The Democratic push has been based entirely on ideological and political considerations and not at all on careful assessments of costs and benefits and for this reason they deserve all the anger and ridicule they have received. This anger and ridicule is an honest expression of frustration about the way the Democrats have tried to ram this thing through before anyone really knows what it will cost or how it will impact our national or state economies and the Democratic response to this frustration has been almost entirely dishonest.

I also constantly recommend C-Span as a valuable source. In fact, you don't even need to watch/listen to any of it. Just go to their home page C-span.org, and there are hundreds of links from which to choose on a variety of topics, health care being just one. But, Peach, you can bet that if just ONE of those links even hints of support for anything Obama, the HATE BRIGADE will begin dismissing C-Span just as they now dismiss the AP over...exactly what, is anyone's guess.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

And it seems your all for HR 3200 toomuchtime which by the by the way includes a public option to drive down costs from private insurers.

You can never, EVER drive down costs by greatly increasing demand without greatly increasing supply. The exact opposite will happen. Why is everyone ignoring the definitely non-partisan CBO these days?

And it's not a public option, it's mandatory. Or, they tax the piss out of you. Penalize you.

True to a certain extent. My son is a doctor and my daughter a pharmacist. I know a bit about the medical profession. True we have a shortage of doctors and nurses in this nation. That shortage exists now and will only be made worse by universal care.

But that doesn't mean we should allow that shortage to continue . What it means is that we have not been smart enough and forward thinking enough to provide tuition relief for doctors and nurses at the levels we should have been doing all along.

Tell me midnight.

If it becomes apparent that Americans will starve to death if we don't start growing more food then wouldn't you say we have a logical, ethical and moral responsibility to get out and grow more food so we don't have Americans starving to death?

Yes................... Yes we should you say midnight?

Well, then it's the exact same thing with health care facilities, doctors and nurses. People die in this country from lack of medical care. I know two people personally that died because they could not get medical care. And through no fault of their own. Their steel plant had closed up and moved over seas leaving them with no medical care when they happened to come down with cancer and heart disease.

You don't throw up your hands and say we can't do it when it comes to life and death.
You figure out how it can be done.

It doesn't mean we nationalize it and put the government in total control of it. Right? It doesn't mean we greatly exxaggerate the problem with lousy analogies like you just did, then demonize all opponents as much as possible.

The mantra of "the anti-healthcare crowd" is dishonest on its face. No one's against health care reform. The people are simply against this far over-reaching, Marxist PLAN.

Instead of fixing the leaky roof, replacing the sagging steps, fixing the faulty plumbing and electrical, and changing out the bath water, THIS plan proposes to tear the whole house down and replace it with a new, trillion dollar one that still will have a leaky roof, sagging steps, bad plumbing and electrical, and throws the baby out with the bath water!

AND tries to pack millions more into it without any increase in square footage!

The plan makes no sense, and the fast, hard sell just didn't fly.

So now, following Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals, they have to try to demonize those who resist, by claiming they are "against reform, against health care" and displaying their ageism bigotry by calling them "old, bitter fucks" with no evidence to support any of it whatsoever!

See?

 

[MaggieMae]

You don't know what World Net Daily is? Really? Did you just fall off the turnip truck and stumble onto the interwebs message boards yesterday or something?

I simply have no information on WND, other than since you referenced it, it must be partisan. But if you want to give the impression that you are an innocent non-partisan, knock yourself out.

See?

And I've been on the innertubes since even before Al Gore invented it!

Since WND is one of the sources sited as acceptable just like Fox News, Weekly Standard, Washington Times and Rush by folks who whine about the LMSM.......and the fact that I've known of you from years on another board, I simply don't believe you don't know what WND is as it is linked to constantly by posters.

The home of The Birthers, after all. How could they miss that?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I am "engaging" your obvious dishonesty and your complete lack of any grasp of irony. Oh and your total, towering lack of intellectual honesty, even with yourself.

You want old people to just hurry up and die already. Ageism bigots like you make me ashamed I joined you in voting for Obama!

Well,

When you're wrong on all accounts in one post, I could ignore it......tell the truth which subsequently, and baselessly, is called a lie, or continue on playing with ya. Hmm. I have to ponder this.

I had such a decision as well, after reading your OP here. I decided to slap you around on it a little. And since you're such a wailing crybaby, it's been fun! So I keep it up!

You however, said about 30 posts ago you were going to take the rest of my posts here with a grain of sea salt. How's that working out for you as you soil your diapers?

And you've already made your hatred and disdain for old people known. So it's been educational to anyone who searches up ageism bigotry on google, and sees your sterling examples!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I simply have no information on WND, other than since you referenced it, it must be partisan. But if you want to give the impression that you are an innocent non-partisan, knock yourself out.

See?

And I've been on the innertubes since even before Al Gore invented it!

Since WND is one of the sources sited as acceptable just like Fox News, Weekly Standard, Washington Times and Rush by folks who whine about the LMSM.......and the fact that I've known of you from years on another board, I simply don't believe you don't know what WND is as it is linked to constantly by posters.

The home of The Birthers, after all. How could they miss that?

THAT would be why I don't know about it! That entire topic is as idiotic as every other conspiracy theory, and I don't pay it any attention!

 

[G.T.]

I had such a decision as well, after reading your OP here. I decided to slap you around on it a little. And since you're such a wailing crybaby, it's been fun! So I keep it up!

You however, said about 30 posts ago you were going to take the rest of my posts here with a grain of sea salt. How's that working out for you as you soil your diapers?

And you've already made your hatred and disdain for old people known. So it's been educational to anyone who searches up ageism bigotry on google, and sees your sterling examples!

Could --- never--happen.

It's working out pretty well, actually.

 

[wvpeach]

I also constantly recommend C-Span as a valuable source. In fact, you don't even need to watch/listen to any of it. Just go to their home page C-span.org, and there are hundreds of links from which to choose on a variety of topics, health care being just one. But, Peach, you can bet that if just ONE of those links even hints of support for anything Obama, the HATE BRIGADE will begin dismissing C-Span just as they now dismiss the AP over...exactly what, is anyone's guess.[/QUOTE]


So true Maggie ! I listen to Washington Journal in the mornings now that I am mostly retired. You know that call in show on c-span. I am sure your familiar with it.
Anyhoo, just as at these townhall meetings by far right wing nut cases call in far more than democrats or independents do on most days. C-spans phone lines are over ran with right wing partisans , birthers, claiming president Obama is not president. Nut cases hollering about this becoming a socialist nation , on and on they go. The right wing nut cases are way more vocal about calling in to c-span and c-span reguarly has that disgusting Mechelle Malkin and other right wingers on the program who proceed to spout lies. Yet right wingers call in constantly complaining because they say c-span is biased.

Why do they seem to think that one would ask?
Because they ever dare to let one opinion be heard that does no agree with the nutty right wingers.

Thus I have been writing every congress person and senator I can get ahold of along with president Obama and encouraging them to forget these people and proceed without paying them any more heed.

You can't talk sense to a rock and most of the right wingers seem to have no more mental capabilities than a rock.

 

[MaggieMae]

And it seems your all for HR 3200 toomuchtime which by the by the way includes a public option to drive down costs from private insurers.

You can never, EVER drive down costs by greatly increasing demand without greatly increasing supply. The exact opposite will happen. Why is everyone ignoring the definitely non-partisan CBO these days?

And it's not a public option, it's mandatory. Or, they tax the piss out of you. Penalize you.

Er, the "demand" part already exists. The "supply" part comes with the number of uninsured who will henceforth become insured by some sort of insurance pool, newly added to the existing industry. As far as I know, the CBO has addressed the potential deficit increases, and not supply and demand within the industry. I believe Peach was talking about driving down individual costs.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I had such a decision as well, after reading your OP here. I decided to slap you around on it a little. And since you're such a wailing crybaby, it's been fun! So I keep it up!

You however, said about 30 posts ago you were going to take the rest of my posts here with a grain of sea salt. How's that working out for you as you soil your diapers?

And you've already made your hatred and disdain for old people known. So it's been educational to anyone who searches up ageism bigotry on google, and sees your sterling examples!

Could --- never--happen.

It's working out pretty well, actually.

Here's how stupid you are. While you are here nursing this thread, crybabying all over it, I am also slapping around other partisan hacks in another thread who are trying to blame Obama for the uptick in violence in Iraq! Only your claim to be non-partisan could be more idiotic than that!

Word and deed. So many hacks, so little time!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Er, the "demand" part already exists. The "supply" part comes with the number of uninsured who will henceforth become insured by some sort of insurance pool, newly added to the existing industry. As far as I know, the CBO has addressed the potential deficit increases, and not supply and demand within the industry. I believe Peach was talking about driving down individual costs.

It's the other way around, dummy. Have you not been listening to Obama, Frank, Pelosi, et al?

The greatly increased DEMAND comes when you enroll 47 million more people, and have not the nurses, doctors, facilities or supplies to handle the increased demand. And this bill? Addresses none of that at all.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You can't talk sense to a rock and most of the right wingers seem to have no more mental capabilities than a rock.

Tall talk from someone goostepping behind das Fuhrer, Lord Obama, no mater the agenda. You're not exhibitting much in the way of independent thought yourself.

 

[G.T.]

Here's how stupid you are. While you are here nursing this thread, crybabying all over it, I am also slapping around other partisan hacks in another thread who are trying to blame Obama for the uptick in violence in Iraq! Only your claim to be non-partisan could be more idiotic than that!

Word and deed. So many hacks, so little time!

Here's how stupid you are, since it hasn't been made obvious for you. I'll stop batting at you now like a cat does to a furball.

QUESTION:

Which of my political views make me one side, over the other, in-terms of being a partisan.

I mean, if you're going to label me something, fuck it, let's discuss based on its actual merits.

What views make me which-sided? G'luck. I already know your response.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

You can't talk sense to a rock and most of the right wingers seem to have no more mental capabilities than a rock.

Tall talk from someone goostepping behind das Fuhrer, Lord Obama, no mater the agenda.

Nonsense.

 

[MaggieMae]

Bonez.... Some reading and research for you:

Have you studied the health care problems of native Americans who live on reservations? They have had single-payer, government controlled healthcare since the government set up the reservations. It's third-world medical care right in the middle of a first-world country!

Indians' motto is "don't get sick after June" because that's when the funding runs out, and it's been a problem for two hundred years! Think of other US government run medical programs, such as the horrendous VA, then ask yourself, "why do we want the government taking over ALL healthcare?"

Start the reading on this here:

"Don't get sick after June!" - John Stossel's Take

Then check all this out:

"Don't get sick after June!" - Google Search

Shouldn't they like, FIX this first and prove to the rest of us they can run a health care system, on a small scale? Before we put them solely in the driver's seat of a really BIG bus with everyone on it? And with LOTS of folks thrown UNDER that bus?

Oh goody, this is the year conservatives are going to start caring about what happens on Indian reservations instead of pocketing whatever private wealth they have? (Jack Abramoff, Inc.) Can't wait to hear more.

First, I am not a conservative. Second, I don't give two red rat's asses what happens on indian reservations. But you, as a liberal, should.

They have third-world health care that is run by the government. It's horrendous by all accounts. Shouldn't they fix that first? Prove to us they can run a health care program?

Hmmm, let's see. You're not a Republican; you're not a conservative; you don't read newspapers, you're critical of cable news (not here, but surely elsewhere) you don't read online blogs and therefore don't know what World Net Daily is; you seem to have rigid opinions based on what, no one knows; you express concern about American Indian healthcare in one breath, then don't give a rat's ass in another.

So, the $64,000 question we ALL want answered is: What ARE you? One of them space aliens from up yonder somewhere? If that's you in your avatar, could be... Just askin'.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Driving down costs? So.. doctors, nurses, drugs, syringes, cotton balls, blood, etc. are going to miracuously cost less now? Seeems to me the only cost in healthcare is treating the sick... so driving down the costs would, barring the afforementioned, mean less treatments for the sick.
Reminds me of progressives like Wilson and talk about ridding ourselves of the "feebles".
Yeah, this is all a great idea.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Sorry kids, none of tis crap adds up. Clearly the majority of Americans don't want what is being foisted.. so.. what's the REAL agenda?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Here's how stupid you are. While you are here nursing this thread, crybabying all over it, I am also slapping around other partisan hacks in another thread who are trying to blame Obama for the uptick in violence in Iraq! Only your claim to be non-partisan could be more idiotic than that!

Word and deed. So many hacks, so little time!

Here's how stupid you are, since it hasn't been made obvious for you. I'll stop batting at you now like a cat does to a furball.

QUESTION:

Which of my political views make me one side, over the other, in-terms of being a partisan.

I mean, if you're going to label me something, fuck it, let's discuss based on its actual merits.

What views make me which-sided? G'luck. I already know your response.

See, you're getting all upset now. I love it when a plan comes together!

Please go back and read your OP, and try to see the irony in it. Then read all your posts here, which have been nothing more than far-left regurgitated, spoon fed talking points from places like the DU, sweetened with inaccurate, ad-hom demonization religiously following Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals, then you have answered your own question.

Tack on your ageism bigotry, and the fact that you use vehicular manslaughter analogies against old people, and the leftist partisan hack label fits you to a T.

 

[MaggieMae]

I simply have no information on WND, other than since you referenced it, it must be partisan.

See?

And I've been on the innertubes since even before Al Gore invented it!

Then how come you still appear to be so unenlightened? If you have spent 20 years doing research on the Internet, you wouldn't have made that last truly stupid comment.

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

It was a joke, stupid. That's what the ROFL icon means.

And here we go again, linking to a partisan "fact" site. Snopes! Love it!

Yep, everything is "leftist partisan" unless it's an analysis of something generated in that empty thing you carry around on top of your head.

Ironically, I posted the Snopes link in response to your <gasp> strawman comment, hypocrite.