Wisconsin public sector workers under compensated

[Wry Catcher]

This thread is one more example of the insanity of politics today. Seven pages by now of opinion, opinions formed not my real world experience or academic study, pitting working men and women against other working men and women.
Few dispute that government workers have nice salaries and good benefits; as do many union workers in the private sector. Months ago the attacks were directed at the United Auto Workers, today the focus is on government workers, and during this entire time the investor class has continued to amass more and more wealth.
Look to your local newspaper and see how many homes will be sold this week to investors with cash money in their pockets, buying foreclosed property for dimes on the dollar, property which they will rent and depreciate, enjoying the tax benefits as this practice syphons off the equity of those who are still able to make their mortgage payments.
And yet we squabble over the nature of work and post signs "hooray for my side". Plutocracy is what working men and women need to fear, not your neighbor or local small business, but the few, the greedy and the power elites in this country who laugh at both sides of the arguments on this thread as they send the wealth of our nation to their bank on the Cayman Islands or the nation of Switzerland.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Good. Truth obviously doesn't get the undercompensated compared to other public employees and underpaid based on what they're WORTH are two very different things.

TM is mentally ill. Serious. At the end of the day, she comes with the "you hate your fellow Americans" post every time. TM needs serious help... there' something horribly wrong there.

 

[Big Fitz]

Corporations are not overtaxed here , they move for Cheap labor.

You want Americans to be paid like third world workers

Do you even understand why labor is expensive?

Is it the greed of the individual employees? Or is it government telling business what they must pay?

Now don't get me wrong, there is a certain standard of living I want to see in my nation. But that standard of living has a price point If I want safe working conditions, it must be paid for. If I want clean manufacturing, again, it must be paid for. Costs do not come out of nowhere. They come from the acceptable standards in a culture.

Why does polluting industry move overseas? Because they don't have an EPA and whiny greenies screaming for a perfectly pure environment above and beyond reason. Why is there cheaper labor overseas? Because their standard of living is cheaper for they don't have almost no zoning laws on construction, or other fees and taxes they need funding.

You're living in a fantasy world placed in a vacuum that doesn't deal with unintended consequences or the physics of political and moral choices.

Get with the fucking program and realize ANYTHING you want in the world has a price to be paid, whether you agree with it or not!

 

[California Girl]

This thread is one more example of the insanity of politics today. Seven pages by now of opinion, opinions formed not my real world experience or academic study, pitting working men and women against other working men and women.
Few dispute that government workers have nice salaries and good benefits; as do many union workers in the private sector. Months ago the attacks were directed at the United Auto Workers, today the focus is on government workers, and during this entire time the investor class has continued to amass more and more wealth.
Look to your local newspaper and see how many homes will be sold this week to investors with cash money in their pockets, buying foreclosed property for dimes on the dollar, property which they will rent and depreciate, enjoying the tax benefits as this practice syphons off the equity of those who are still able to make their mortgage payments.
And yet we squabble over the nature of work and post signs "hooray for my side". Plutocracy is what working men and women need to fear, not your neighbor or local small business, but the few, the greedy and the power elites in this country who laugh at both sides of the arguments on this thread as they send the wealth of our nation to their bank on the Cayman Islands or the nation of Switzerland.

The attacks are aimed at those who are bleeding the American taxpayer dry... and still wanting more. That includes the United Auto Workers... and government employees. Don't like it? Stop taking from us.

FYI: you elected these 'elites', so stop whining about it.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I'd be mad too if I were a taxpayer in Wisconsin and my tax dollars were being ripped off to pay public employees who had a nice golden retirement. Hell, I have to pay into my retirement plan. They sure the hell can too.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So hes cutting the wages of people who are already behind the private sector.

The right wants government dead folks.

They are trying to kill it from inside.


They want it to fail.

How did you react to the protest in Egypt ?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Good. Truth obviously doesn't get the undercompensated compared to other public employees and underpaid based on what they're WORTH are two very different things.

TM is mentally ill. Serious. At the end of the day, she comes with the "you hate your fellow Americans" post every time. TM needs serious help... there' something horribly wrong there.

Face it Soggy, you can't present a reasoned argument so you resort to a personal attack. Admit you're ruled by your emotions. It's the first step you will need to take to develop critical thinking skills and, maybe, one day post something based on reason, not hysteria, avarice, bigotry or parrot the unproven opinions of others.

 

[whitehall]

Freedom to pursue happiness includes grouping together to get a better deal.


Why do you hate our freedoms?

"Get a better deal" from whom? The people who give up a little bit of their persuit of happiness to pay their salaries?

 

[GHook93]

Employees usually don't make more than their employers or bosses/managers! The Private sector pays the public sectors bills! They are ultimately the employers! They should be grateful.

Until the public sector starts producing profits and money (other than tax dollars) for the state coffers, then QUIT bitching about lower pay.

Note: If you take into account the highway robbery State worker pension funds that the private sector worker doesn't get, then the public worker's salary far exceeds that of private sector worker.

Where does the public sector make a profit? Amtrak? Obama's so-called solution to the economy, has never made money, when it should be a gold-mine. What about the post office? If it was run like Fedex then it would be a diamond-mine, but it consistently runs in the red! That is astonishing with all the business and money they have coming in. What about the highways? They collect a ton of cash from commuters, but they need tax revenues to functions and meet their obligations? Take State run museum (that charge fees) that lose money vs. Private ones that make a killing. State Parks that generate revenue in many avenues and lose money vs. private wildlife preserves that make a killing! The list goes on and on.

Again until the public sector proves they can make a profit and run an organization well, then I say to the public sector, SHUT THE FUCK UP and be grateful for everything the private sector provides for you!

Press Releases | News from EPI: EPI study finds, Wisconsin public-sector workers under-compensated


A new Economic Policy Institute study released this week finds that full-time state and local government employees in Wisconsin are undercompensated by 8.2%, when compared to otherwise similar private-sector workers. By using a comprehensive database that is updated monthly by the U.S. Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics, the study provides an accurate comparison of public- and private-sector compensation in Wisconsin.

The analysis, Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated? by Labor and Employment Relations Professor Jeffrey Keefe of Rutgers University, controls for education, experience, hours of work, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, experience, citizenship and disability. The study uses data collected primarily from the National Compensation Survey, and in accordance with standard survey practice, focuses on year-round, full-time public and private-sector employees.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This thread is one more example of the insanity of politics today. Seven pages by now of opinion, opinions formed not my real world experience or academic study, pitting working men and women against other working men and women.
Few dispute that government workers have nice salaries and good benefits; as do many union workers in the private sector. Months ago the attacks were directed at the United Auto Workers, today the focus is on government workers, and during this entire time the investor class has continued to amass more and more wealth.
Look to your local newspaper and see how many homes will be sold this week to investors with cash money in their pockets, buying foreclosed property for dimes on the dollar, property which they will rent and depreciate, enjoying the tax benefits as this practice syphons off the equity of those who are still able to make their mortgage payments.
And yet we squabble over the nature of work and post signs "hooray for my side". Plutocracy is what working men and women need to fear, not your neighbor or local small business, but the few, the greedy and the power elites in this country who laugh at both sides of the arguments on this thread as they send the wealth of our nation to their bank on the Cayman Islands or the nation of Switzerland.

The attacks are aimed at those who are bleeding the American taxpayer dry... and still wanting more. That includes the United Auto Workers... and government employees. Don't like it? Stop taking from us.

FYI: you elected these 'elites', so stop whining about it.

The loudest whine is from your side of the aisle, and the 'elites' are not elected, though many elected officials from both sides of the aisle do the bidding for the elites.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

"Walker, remember, is not removing unions' fundamental power to bargain for wages. He is demanding that state workers put 5.8% of their wages toward retirement and that they cover 12.6% of their health care premiums, which would still have them paying more than $100 less a month than the average schmoe."


I have to pay 60 percent of my healthcare premiums.

 

[Big Fitz]

Freedom to pursue happiness includes grouping together to get a better deal.

well look for the union label!

Two small facts here.

Your right to group together does NOT give you the right to take from others against their will.

And also, public sector unions negotiate unfairly, because they do not negotiate WITH the party paying them: the tax payers, but a third party representative that feels no financial repercussions if they do a poor job. In fact, if the representatives are crooked enough, they gain because the unions will buy elections to keep them in power.

I would concede to having public sector unions if they were only given contracts and raises through public referendum and reduce their benefits to equal that of the private industry average.

You forget yourself Truthie. Your rights do not extend to anyone else's wallet but your own and what you earn in honest trade.

WEAC has been abusing this third party negotiating system for decades. It is time they were ended as the corrupt entity they became.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What happens when taxpayers protest in 5 to 1 numbers against the union? What happens when we really hear the voice of the people?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Freedom to pursue happiness includes grouping together to get a better deal.

well look for the union label!

Two small facts here.

Your right to group together does NOT give you the right to take from others against their will.

And also, public sector unions negotiate unfairly, because they do not negotiate WITH the party paying them: the tax payers, but a third party representative that feels no financial repercussions if they do a poor job. In fact, if the representatives are crooked enough, they gain because the unions will buy elections to keep them in power.

I would concede to having public sector unions if they were only given contracts and raises through public referendum and reduce their benefits to equal that of the private industry average.

You forget yourself Truthie. Your rights do not extend to anyone else's wallet but your own and what you earn in honest trade.

WEAC has been abusing this third party negotiating system for decades. It is time they were ended as the corrupt entity they became.

The taxpayers are represented by elected officials who appoint or hire someone to represent the agency, city, county or state in labor negotiations, this is the essence of a republic. Ultimately, the elected officials sign off and approve the final settlement in the budget.
Referandums are a form of direct democracy, something feared or revered depending, generally, on the issue at hand.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, make your teachers work for peanuts, with crappy benefits, no job security, and no power to negotiate anything better...

...and then try to attract the best and brightest to become Wisconsin teachers.

{Still, they also acknowledged that their own single-year figures for 2008-09 were actually worse than the statistics released by the state, with a lower graduation rate and a higher dropout rate.

According to the statistics released by the California Department of Education, 69.6 percent of LAUSD's students graduated high school in four years in 2008-09, compared to 72.4 percent in 2007-08.

The same data shows that just under a third - 29.6 percent - of LAUSD's students dropped out in 2008-09, compared to 26.4 percent in 2007-08.

Using their own student data, however, LAUSD officials say 52 percent of their high school students graduated in four years in 2008-09. But they said that was a gain from 2007-08, when just 46 percent of high school students graduated in four years.}

LAUSD dropout rate is on the rise - LA Daily News

Best and brightest?

Are you retarded? Nothing you posted is relevant.

 

[Avatar4321]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

 

[Meister]

The state of Wisconsin can't afford it....what else needs to be said?

But but but but.........they're entiiiiiiiiiiiiiitled to it!!!!!

Getting paid for doing a job is a pretty American principle

They are getting paid to do a job....what's your point?

 

[NYcarbineer]

see post immediately preceding yours.

tia

Why? There's nothing in that post. Can you prove that lowering teachers' pay and benefits, and taking away their right to negotiate collectively has ever, anywhere, produced a better quality of teacher and a better quality of education?

Be specific.

are teachers the only public workers, fuckwit? run your *it's for the children* bullshit on someone who might believe it.

TM's still logged on.

So that's your tedious way of saying you have no evidence to support that.

Are teachers in Wisconsin overpaid?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

And another big glaring problem.....there is no more money.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

That's my point.

If you don't care about the quality of teachers or policemen you have, then you pay the least amount you can to get SOMEBODY to fill the slot, and spend your savings on something else.