Why wouldn't Jesus...

[HUGGY]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Why wouldn't Jesus...want us to structure our society to help the poor?


People don't really want that much when they are dead.

Just satin...

 

[ima]

so this bullshit about america being a christian nation is just that, bullshit.

Ya, in "in god we trust" and "one nation under god", they must be talking about allah.

If it was the lower case "g", I could agree with you. It is not. Get over it, the people that founded this country were far wiser than you. Praise the Lord!

Can someone please translate this into English for me?

 

[jillian]

so this bullshit about america being a christian nation is just that, bullshit.

Ya, in "in god we trust" and "one nation under god", they must be talking about allah.

If it was the lower case "g", I could agree with you. It is not. Get over it, the people that founded this country were far wiser than you. Praise the Lord!

but they were also creatures of their era... they said what they had to... most they were deists, not 'christians' in the sense that you mean it. and jefferson did his own bible so it would get rid of all the miracles and only contain the teachings.

they were also wise enough to separate government and church...

you know, one of the parts of the constitution that the right hates.

 

[jillian]

Because Jesus wasn't about government. He was about mans personal relationship with God.

so this bullshit about america being a christian nation is just that, bullshit.

Compare the countries where the citizens are predominantly Christian to any other country where the citizens are NOT predominantly Christian. Which country is more:
Productive
Generous
Modern
Inovative
Honorable
Cleanliness

Now compare the countries that are predominantly any other particular faith. How do those countries compare for:
Corruption
Tyrants
Lawlessness
Abuse of the poor
Abuse of the weak
Electrical power
Sewage removal
Clean water

Also, if you are so against Christians, why don't you start a community that does not welcome Christians. Do the ordinances and zoning to prohibit churches or "Bible study". Show us how great life can be without Christians.....

israel is a lawless state?

the united arab emirates is a lawless state?

feel free to go live in a theocracy and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[jillian]

Ya, in "in god we trust" and "one nation under god", they must be talking about allah.

If it was the lower case "g", I could agree with you. It is not. Get over it, the people that founded this country were far wiser than you. Praise the Lord!

Can someone please translate this into English for me?

i think he's saying b/c they capitalized the word that they mean it as a proper noun and the name of the christian god.

it's silly...

 

[ima]

If it was the lower case "g", I could agree with you. It is not. Get over it, the people that founded this country were far wiser than you. Praise the Lord!

Can someone please translate this into English for me?

i think he's saying b/c they capitalized the word that they mean it as a proper noun and the name of the christian god.

it's silly...

In other words, it wasn't me, it actually did make no sense.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Exactly. I'm not going to reread this necroed thread but I don't think anyone answer that question to my satisfaction.

Do you Donate to Charity? Do You Donate to Individuals in need? Do you donate time? That is Christian Foundation. Not only Christian, Charity is about Conscience, Anybody with a pulse should know that. Giving is about need, circumstance, and ability. What comes around, goes around. Providence, is between Each of us and our Maker, not each of us and Government. Government is lost in the woods here with an Identity crisis. Government is not God, nor can It transform Tyrannical Decree or Mandate into anything outside of it's true nature. Greed and Jealousy go hand in hand as vices. They are both sins, they both destroy Souls.

I think, honestly, that you are so anti-government that your mind is made up.

We can do all of it, Intense, and Jesus would probably smile.

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

 

[logical4u]

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

Read Proverbs, it tells us not (that is NOT) to put your money in a common purse (that would be the gov't). That is not for gov't funding handouts, taxes are for "infrastructure" (roads, justice, law enforcement, border protection). Forcing people to "give" to take care of someone else's choice of "victim" is allowing you to ignore the needy around you (you can walk right by them or ignore them because you believe that your monies are already going to them, it makes you numb to troubled people). That is not even mentioning the fact that a huge percentage of those monies go to the administrators (gov't workers).

You are mistranslating, no biggie, regardless, Proverbs is the OT and not the subject of the thread.

Biblical scholar, you, you must be aware the OT is the preparation for the Christ, aren't you?

 

[logical4u]

Ya, in "in god we trust" and "one nation under god", they must be talking about allah.

If it was the lower case "g", I could agree with you. It is not. Get over it, the people that founded this country were far wiser than you. Praise the Lord!

but they were also creatures of their era... they said what they had to... most they were deists, not 'christians' in the sense that you mean it. and jefferson did his own bible so it would get rid of all the miracles and only contain the teachings.

they were also wise enough to separate government and church...

you know, one of the parts of the constitution that the right hates.

You did see the Dave Barton tour of the capital where Jefferson requested the capital building rotunda was used for Christian services that he attended, didn't you?

Please quote the "Constitution" where it says seperate government and church.

 

[logical4u]

so this bullshit about america being a christian nation is just that, bullshit.

Compare the countries where the citizens are predominantly Christian to any other country where the citizens are NOT predominantly Christian. Which country is more:
Productive
Generous
Modern
Inovative
Honorable
Cleanliness

Now compare the countries that are predominantly any other particular faith. How do those countries compare for:
Corruption
Tyrants
Lawlessness
Abuse of the poor
Abuse of the weak
Electrical power
Sewage removal
Clean water

Also, if you are so against Christians, why don't you start a community that does not welcome Christians. Do the ordinances and zoning to prohibit churches or "Bible study". Show us how great life can be without Christians.....

israel is a lawless state?

the united arab emirates is a lawless state?

feel free to go live in a theocracy and leave the rest of us alone.

Okay, good one on Israel (I forgot to include "Judeo"/Christian)....
How is life outside the "civilized" cities in the UAE?

 

[Care4all]

Do you Donate to Charity? Do You Donate to Individuals in need? Do you donate time? That is Christian Foundation. Not only Christian, Charity is about Conscience, Anybody with a pulse should know that. Giving is about need, circumstance, and ability. What comes around, goes around. Providence, is between Each of us and our Maker, not each of us and Government. Government is lost in the woods here with an Identity crisis. Government is not God, nor can It transform Tyrannical Decree or Mandate into anything outside of it's true nature. Greed and Jealousy go hand in hand as vices. They are both sins, they both destroy Souls.

I think, honestly, that you are so anti-government that your mind is made up.

We can do all of it, Intense, and Jesus would probably smile.

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

Jesus NEVER spoke out against gvt, not even against the Roman gvt, as the pharisees tried to trick him in to doing, thus his answer on taxes that have to be paid to the Romans...''give unto Caesar what is his'' .....

 

[Ravi]

Read Proverbs, it tells us not (that is NOT) to put your money in a common purse (that would be the gov't). That is not for gov't funding handouts, taxes are for "infrastructure" (roads, justice, law enforcement, border protection). Forcing people to "give" to take care of someone else's choice of "victim" is allowing you to ignore the needy around you (you can walk right by them or ignore them because you believe that your monies are already going to them, it makes you numb to troubled people). That is not even mentioning the fact that a huge percentage of those monies go to the administrators (gov't workers).

You are mistranslating, no biggie, regardless, Proverbs is the OT and not the subject of the thread.

Biblical scholar, you, you must be aware the OT is the preparation for the Christ, aren't you?

That doesn't change my point.

 

[logical4u]

You are mistranslating, no biggie, regardless, Proverbs is the OT and not the subject of the thread.

Biblical scholar, you, you must be aware the OT is the preparation for the Christ, aren't you?

That doesn't change my point.

Yeshua was the fullfillment of the OT. Yeshua is part of the OT.

 

[mal]

I think, honestly, that you are so anti-government that your mind is made up.

We can do all of it, Intense, and Jesus would probably smile.

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

Jesus NEVER spoke out against gvt, not even against the Roman gvt, as the pharisees tried to trick him in to doing, thus his answer on taxes that have to be paid to the Romans...''give unto Caesar what is his'' .....

Where is that Hammerhead Sock that was Assisting Ravir regarding Leviticus with his "not Translated correctly" crap?...

Oh, only some parts of the Bible were Mistranslated?...



peace...

 

[mal]

Give a Man a Fish... MOTHERFUCKER!...



peace...

 

[Care4all]

Biblical scholar, you, you must be aware the OT is the preparation for the Christ, aren't you?

That doesn't change my point.

Yeshua was the fullfillment of the OT. Yeshua is part of the OT.

yes true, but over and over and over and over Christ pointed out how the Jews of the time misinterpreted the MEANING of the old testament and the rules within it...

the parable of the good Samaritan for one, where the priest and the Levite passed by, the injured and left for dead man, because they saw his blood as being unclean and the rules regarding such, so they did not help him...

When Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath they accused him of doing wrong or being Beelzebub

when the religious leaders turned the outside of the temple in to a market of money changers....and ripped off the every day Jews just trying to follow the rules and pay respect to the Lord....

On and on and on and on, Jesus pointed out to the supposed religious leaders of the time that they interpreted the Bible (old testament) wrongly.

 

[Ravi]

Thanks, Care. Not to mention that the passage he is referencing is to not fall in with a bad crowd and do evil, among other thing robbing people.

And no, that doesn't refer to collecting taxes.

His application would have one assuming that Jesus believed all forms of government were evil and in fact charitable organizations in general were evil. Heck, you could even make the case, following his logic, that Jesus believes Churches are evil.

So yeah, dismissed.

 

[Newby]

I think, honestly, that you are so anti-government that your mind is made up.

We can do all of it, Intense, and Jesus would probably smile.

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

Jesus NEVER spoke out against gvt, not even against the Roman gvt, as the pharisees tried to trick him in to doing, thus his answer on taxes that have to be paid to the Romans...''give unto Caesar what is his'' .....

And what is Caesers then? Anything he asks/demands? Was the Roman government handing out welfare to the poor? I don't think so. Christ's message is about personal salvation and what is in your heart, it wasn't about going around and forcing others to follow your beliefs of being benevolent to the poor, especially via a third party. It was about your own convictions of giving directly and helping directly those that had need. It was personal. If we use your argument, then everyone who pays taxes is following the words of Christ, even if it is not in their heart to help anyone. I don't know of any pastor that would affirm that you're doing what Christ preached about helping the poor by simply paying your taxes.

 

[mal]

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

Jesus NEVER spoke out against gvt, not even against the Roman gvt, as the pharisees tried to trick him in to doing, thus his answer on taxes that have to be paid to the Romans...''give unto Caesar what is his'' .....

And what is Caesers then? Anything he asks/demands? Was the Roman government handing out welfare to the poor? I don't think so. Christ's message is about personal salvation and what is in your heart, it wasn't about going around and forcing others to follow your beliefs of being benevolent to the poor, especially via a third party. It was about your own convictions of giving directly and helping directly those that had need. It was personal. If we use your argument, then everyone who pays taxes is following the words of Christ, even if it is not in their heart to help anyone. I don't know of any pastor that would affirm that you're doing what Christ preached about helping the poor by simply paying your taxes.

IT WAS TOO!...

Because they wish it to be.



peace...

 

[del]

Jesus was not about Gov't. in any way. From reading the Bible I am pretty sure that Jesus would not want you to put money into the Gov't. pot just to be spread out to the needy. Charity from individuals is what Jesus was preaching. What is wrong is people trying to use Jesus to justify socialism. Doesn't work.

Jesus NEVER spoke out against gvt, not even against the Roman gvt, as the pharisees tried to trick him in to doing, thus his answer on taxes that have to be paid to the Romans...''give unto Caesar what is his'' .....

And what is Caesers then? Anything he asks/demands? Was the Roman government handing out welfare to the poor? I don't think so. Christ's message is about personal salvation and what is in your heart, it wasn't about going around and forcing others to follow your beliefs of being benevolent to the poor, especially via a third party. It was about your own convictions of giving directly and helping directly those that had need. It was personal. If we use your argument, then everyone who pays taxes is following the words of Christ, even if it is not in their heart to help anyone. I don't know of any pastor that would affirm that you're doing what Christ preached about helping the poor by simply paying your taxes.

yeah, it was

does the term *bread and circus* ring a bell?

do the schools teach history any more?