Why Trump is after NATO...only 5 countries out of 27 members are meeting their pledge!

[Tom Horn]

Nice photoshop...he was eating a taco salad....more in line with him being a fucking moron.

Question....are you a billionaire or President of the United States? no?

 

[Tom Horn]

WINNING! NATO CAVES...promises to meet the 2% threshold.....

Trump then tells them to raise it to 4%.

How do we know he's winning?....because Flippy says he ain't...

“He is steadily destroying our reputation in the world,” Kerry said, adding that Trump displayed a “woeful ignorance” of European defense spending.

NATO pledges to boost defense spending after stern words from Trump

 

[dudmuck]

WINNING! NATO CAVES...promises to meet the 2% threshold.....

Trump then tells them to raise it to 4%.

How do we know he's winning?....because Flippy says he ain't...

“He is steadily destroying our reputation in the world,” Kerry said, adding that Trump displayed a “woeful ignorance” of European defense spending.

NATO pledges to boost defense spending after stern words from Trump

NATO agreed the the 2024 target. Nothing new there, except Trump making more absurd demands.
Instead Trump is just an embarrassment. Such as calling Germany bad.


From Vladimir Putin's point of view, Trump's performance today literally could not have been more perfect.

Severing the US-Germany tie has been the supreme goal of first Soviet and now Russian policy in Europe since 1945.


Volkswagen builds cars in Tennessee, BMW builds cars in South Carolina, Mercedes builds cars in Alabama

from GOP natsec official: "Had to apologize to a European defense attaché just now. 'I'm sorry. He's an idiot.'"

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Many European members -- including big economies like France and Germany -- spend less than the amount called for by NATO guidelines.

The U.S. shells out far more money on defense than any other nation on the planet.

According to NATO statistics, the U.S. spent an estimated $650 billion on defense last year.
That's more than double the amount all the other 27 NATO countries spent between them, even though their combined GDP tops that of the U.S.
Which NATO members are falling short on military spending?
The AGREEMENT of 27 NATO members is that they would spend 2% or more on their OWN defense .

What is your problem?

My problem is that for far too many people like you they see that we spend more money on defense than any other nation on the planet, more than the next 7 combined, and your response is not "holy fuck why do we spend so much" it is "those deadbeats should spend more".

My problem is that people like you call it "defense" spending when the vast majority of what we do with our military has little to do with defense.

Has it ever even once enterd that little sheep mind of yours that perhaps the issue is not the rest of the world, but our own spending?

Do these NATO countries spend money on their troops stationed in countries as the USA does as a member of NATO to defend these countries as best illustrated as
to their % of GDP being spent on defense.

By the way are you such a Trump hater you put that first rather than the USA interest? I mean what is SO wrong with Trump raising issues like this?
You and others like you malign Trump for larger military expenditures and when he asks NATO to share a bigger load... you attack Trump? That makes no sense!

You are barking up the wrong tree here, I am the guy that for as long as I have been on this forum have advocated pulling our troops, at least half if not more, out of Europe and stationing them on our southern border to actually defend this country for a change.

We do not under spend on our military, it is not underfunded, it is misused.

Unfortunately, Trump is probably not the guy for the job, but reevaluating just what we are trying to do with defense spending is overdue. Bannon was his strategist, but Bannon is more or less a white supremacist bomb thrower, so people like the Mercers and Mellon Scafides have no use for him either. Still, Trump even at age 73 saw the question

On the left ... yeah Pelosi and Shumer .... that's the ticket. Bernie Sanders is the intellectual giant and motivator of new thinking!\

Putin is unique in that he's the only threat still viewing the world as did Stalin in creating an economic empire contained by military and not by consent of people.

But do we need the Ford Class to keep open trade with China? Trump's policy towards Iran is NOT to trade with them. Meanwhile Germany and China are working a deal to trade and stay outside US banking sanctions. If THAT doesn't give you a sphinter check, you're brain dead.

Merkel is doing a gas deal with Putin to tie their economies together. Not totally diferent than we did with the Saudis ... and Carter and Reagan were both in on it.

Economies that are tied together are much less likely to go to war with each other, something neither Trump nor his sheep understand

You've got to be kidding! Germany's ECONOMY depends on the oil and gas coming from Russia! Russia doesn't need Germany's money!

This map shows Europe’s dependence on Russian gas
View attachment 204152

Russia needs Germany's money more than they need the excess gas and oil they would be left with if not for selling it to Germany

 

[nat4900]

Maybe Trump wants to declare war on Germany......perhaps even attack Germany from opposite sides along with Putin?.......Rumor has it that such may have happened before in history.....LOL

 

[Harry Dresden]

 

[Harpy Eagle]

First, let us be aware that if ALL 30 countries within NATO were to meet the 2% of their respective GDP toward armaments, the $700 BILLION that the U.S. spends on the Pentagon would not go down by even ONE dollar............The $700 billion expense is our "choice"...or at least the choice forced upon us by the military complex.

The above stated, the other FACT is that all NATO countries are required to PAY a formulated amount toward the NATO coffers........and EVERY ONE of the countries in the pact is fulfilling THAT requirement.......not one of the countries is behind in that PAYMENT.

What the fool-in-chief is ranting about, is that most of the NATO countries are not SPENDING as much as Trump would like for them to spend on armaments (bearing in mind that most of that potential expenditure would go to American weapon manufacturers.)

Again, if ALL those NATO countries were to SPEND 2% of their GDP in further armaments, we would not be saving a dime.....and probably those NATO countries would not be a heck of a lot "safer."........The MAIN loser in the current scenario are the U.S. armaments' lobbyists whose job is to ensure that NATO buy more American weapons of war.

That is ok though, neither do his sheep

 

[healthmyths]

Many European members -- including big economies like France and Germany -- spend less than the amount called for by NATO guidelines.

The U.S. shells out far more money on defense than any other nation on the planet.

According to NATO statistics, the U.S. spent an estimated $650 billion on defense last year.
That's more than double the amount all the other 27 NATO countries spent between them, even though their combined GDP tops that of the U.S.
Which NATO members are falling short on military spending?
The AGREEMENT of 27 NATO members is that they would spend 2% or more on their OWN defense .

What is your problem?

My problem is that for far too many people like you they see that we spend more money on defense than any other nation on the planet, more than the next 7 combined, and your response is not "holy fuck why do we spend so much" it is "those deadbeats should spend more".

My problem is that people like you call it "defense" spending when the vast majority of what we do with our military has little to do with defense.

Has it ever even once enterd that little sheep mind of yours that perhaps the issue is not the rest of the world, but our own spending?

Do these NATO countries spend money on their troops stationed in countries as the USA does as a member of NATO to defend these countries as best illustrated as
to their % of GDP being spent on defense.

By the way are you such a Trump hater you put that first rather than the USA interest? I mean what is SO wrong with Trump raising issues like this?
You and others like you malign Trump for larger military expenditures and when he asks NATO to share a bigger load... you attack Trump? That makes no sense!

You are barking up the wrong tree here, I am the guy that for as long as I have been on this forum have advocated pulling our troops, at least half if not more, out of Europe and stationing them on our southern border to actually defend this country for a change.

We do not under spend on our military, it is not underfunded, it is misused.

Unfortunately, Trump is probably not the guy for the job, but reevaluating just what we are trying to do with defense spending is overdue. Bannon was his strategist, but Bannon is more or less a white supremacist bomb thrower, so people like the Mercers and Mellon Scafides have no use for him either. Still, Trump even at age 73 saw the question

On the left ... yeah Pelosi and Shumer .... that's the ticket. Bernie Sanders is the intellectual giant and motivator of new thinking!\

Putin is unique in that he's the only threat still viewing the world as did Stalin in creating an economic empire contained by military and not by consent of people.

But do we need the Ford Class to keep open trade with China? Trump's policy towards Iran is NOT to trade with them. Meanwhile Germany and China are working a deal to trade and stay outside US banking sanctions. If THAT doesn't give you a sphinter check, you're brain dead.

Merkel is doing a gas deal with Putin to tie their economies together. Not totally diferent than we did with the Saudis ... and Carter and Reagan were both in on it.

Economies that are tied together are much less likely to go to war with each other, something neither Trump nor his sheep understand

You've got to be kidding! Germany's ECONOMY depends on the oil and gas coming from Russia! Russia doesn't need Germany's money!

This map shows Europe’s dependence on Russian gas
View attachment 204152

Russia needs Germany's money more than they need the excess gas and oil they would be left with if not for selling it to Germany

Of course YOU the expert in international finances don't need to validate your opinion because EVERY ONE KNOWS TraitorGator KNOWS everything and doesn't have to prove it.
Me on the other hand I just like to see what experts in the field have to say and they say you are full of crap!
And guess who has most military strength? Hmmm..6th place.

Can You Guess Which Country Depends Most Heavily on Russian Gas?

 

[Tom Horn]

Severing the US-Germany tie has been the supreme goal of first Soviet and now Russian policy in Europe since 1945.

Stick it where the sun don't shine, commie trash....you get NO say and never will.

 

[Mike473]

Once again our President does the right thing and putting spotlight on the deadbeat NATO countries not paying their dues. PC is a disease and Donald J Trump is the cure.

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Not according NPR..and by the way Trump never used the term "dues"... that's the MSM contribution.

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At 50 seconds into the video Trump speaks of money owed from past years, those would be the NATO dues.

Your OP is not about the dues but about the lack of their own defense spending.

Do try and keep up with your own post, that way I will not have to explain them to you.

"Grumpygator"..I didn't use the term "dues". Nor Did Trump.

Trump was using figures similar to what I showed asking countries to do what they agreed to i.e. spend at least 2% on NATO support.

Now that that minor point is settled, let's identify the point of the thread..
countries like Germany that are making money off gas & oil deal with Russia while spending less than 2% no NATO.

Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo
'Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo

They did not agree to spend 2% on NATO, they agreed to have a military budget that was at least 2% of their GDP.

You do not even understand what your own post show


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

That's a good point. So, are these countries meeting their agreed upon obligations? If not, why not?

 

[hazlnut]

What a GLORIOUS beginning the NATO meetings are off to! In what was supposed to be a most "civilized" setting, Trump has gone GONZO laying into these sissies like a whirling dervish. Their mouths fell open when he told them he's seen enough foot-dragging, playing Uncle Sam for a sucker, and doing business with the Ivans while we protect them from the Ivans. This isn't a euro-loving fool like Barry and he's not obliged to beg them for help in the ME anymore. Now it's time to balance the books, which they can more than afford to do. Merkel got all miffed trying to head-fake the German people that her crazy immigration problems aren't as important as Trump trashing her pittance military spending. These limp-wrists will either pay up and quick or face the Russians alone and it starts with yanking our troops out of Germany...Trump is PISSED and not taking anything but YES for an answer this time.

He's a total embarrassment. The world leaders laugh at his ineptitude, lack of any real understanding of the issues, and basically every time he opens his stupid mouth.

A total fool we have for a POTUS.

We are now just like every other country who's had an asshat ignorant leader at one time or another.

American exceptionalism is dead.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

My problem is that for far too many people like you they see that we spend more money on defense than any other nation on the planet, more than the next 7 combined, and your response is not "holy fuck why do we spend so much" it is "those deadbeats should spend more".

My problem is that people like you call it "defense" spending when the vast majority of what we do with our military has little to do with defense.

Has it ever even once enterd that little sheep mind of yours that perhaps the issue is not the rest of the world, but our own spending?


You are barking up the wrong tree here, I am the guy that for as long as I have been on this forum have advocated pulling our troops, at least half if not more, out of Europe and stationing them on our southern border to actually defend this country for a change.

We do not under spend on our military, it is not underfunded, it is misused.

Unfortunately, Trump is probably not the guy for the job, but reevaluating just what we are trying to do with defense spending is overdue. Bannon was his strategist, but Bannon is more or less a white supremacist bomb thrower, so people like the Mercers and Mellon Scafides have no use for him either. Still, Trump even at age 73 saw the question

On the left ... yeah Pelosi and Shumer .... that's the ticket. Bernie Sanders is the intellectual giant and motivator of new thinking!\

Putin is unique in that he's the only threat still viewing the world as did Stalin in creating an economic empire contained by military and not by consent of people.

But do we need the Ford Class to keep open trade with China? Trump's policy towards Iran is NOT to trade with them. Meanwhile Germany and China are working a deal to trade and stay outside US banking sanctions. If THAT doesn't give you a sphinter check, you're brain dead.

Merkel is doing a gas deal with Putin to tie their economies together. Not totally diferent than we did with the Saudis ... and Carter and Reagan were both in on it.

Economies that are tied together are much less likely to go to war with each other, something neither Trump nor his sheep understand

You've got to be kidding! Germany's ECONOMY depends on the oil and gas coming from Russia! Russia doesn't need Germany's money!

This map shows Europe’s dependence on Russian gas
View attachment 204152

Russia needs Germany's money more than they need the excess gas and oil they would be left with if not for selling it to Germany

Of course YOU the expert in international finances don't need to validate your opinion because EVERY ONE KNOWS TraitorGator KNOWS everything and doesn't have to prove it.
Me on the other hand I just like to see what experts in the field have to say and they say you are full of crap!
And guess who has most military strength? Hmmm..6th place.
View attachment 204186
Can You Guess Which Country Depends Most Heavily on Russian Gas?View attachment 204184

Nobody is questioning the size of the German army or where they get their oil and gas right now.

And yet you ignore Russia’s reliance on the cash for their energy sales.

Russia gets just under half of their trade revenue from oil and gas, they cannot survive without that income.

As you normally do, you only see one side of the issue and pretend there is no other side.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Doc1]

Once again our President does the right thing and putting spotlight on the deadbeat NATO countries not paying their dues. PC is a disease and Donald J Trump is the cure.

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Uh, it's about keeping one's commitments.

 

[PredFan]

Trumps bashing NATO and on his way to go blow Putin.

stay tuned

You are projecting again. We told you about that. Get help.

 

[Doc1]

Once again our President does the right thing and putting spotlight on the deadbeat NATO countries not paying their dues. PC is a disease and Donald J Trump is the cure.

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Not according NPR..and by the way Trump never used the term "dues"... that's the MSM contribution.

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At 50 seconds into the video Trump speaks of money owed from past years, those would be the NATO dues.

Your OP is not about the dues but about the lack of their own defense spending.

Do try and keep up with your own post, that way I will not have to explain them to you.

"Grumpygator"..I didn't use the term "dues". Nor Did Trump.

Trump was using figures similar to what I showed asking countries to do what they agreed to i.e. spend at least 2% on NATO support.

Now that that minor point is settled, let's identify the point of the thread..
countries like Germany that are making money off gas & oil deal with Russia while spending less than 2% no NATO.

Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo
'Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo

They did not agree to spend 2% on NATO, they agreed to have a military budget that was at least 2% of their GDP.

You do not even understand what your own post show


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"

• Indirect – or national – contributions are the largest and come, for instance, when a member volunteers equipment or troops to a military operation and bears the costs of the decision to do so.
• Direct contributions are made to finance requirements of the Alliance that serve the interests of all 29 members - and are not the responsibility of any single member - such as NATO-wide air defence or command and control systems. Costs are borne collectively, often using the principle of common funding.
• Within the principle of common funding, all 29 members contribute according to an agreed cost-share formula, based on Gross National Income, which represents a small percentage of each member’s defence budget.
• Common funding arrangements are used to finance NATO’s principal budgets: the civil budget (NATO HQ running costs), the military budget (costs of the integrated Command Structure) and the NATO Security Investment Programme (military capabilities).
• Projects can also be jointly funded, which means that the participating countries can identify the requirements, the priorities and the funding arrangements, but NATO provides political and financial oversight. The funding process is overseen by the North Atlantic Council, managed by the Resource Policy and Planning Board, and implemented by the Budget Committee and the Investment Committee."

Funding NATO

Weak minds try and misdirect.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Charles Payne's tweet...

Is NATO ready? Germany's Military Readiness

• 95/244 Leopard battle tanks operational
• 0/6 Submarines operational
• 9/15 Frigates in service
• 0/14 transport aircraft airworthy 21,000
• Junior officer/NCO positions unfilled 6/30 Logistical battalions fully equipped

Charles V Payne (@cvpayne) | Twitter

And that's why Trump wants NATO members to step up because true members of NATO are suppose to make
military expenditures equal to a % of their GDP... here are the top
First of all NATO members agreed:
Even though this would be a sharp increase on current spending,
it would still fall short of the 2 percent[of GDP] threshold NATO countries agreed to at the 2014 summit in Wales.

Defense Expenditures Of NATO Members Visualized [Infographic]

Yet look at the following chart!
Remember they agreed to spend 2% of their GDP... Only
The USA and United Kingdom,Poland,Greece, and Estonia.. 5 out of 27 countries are meeting the requirements.
This is what Trump means when he said they need to do what they agreed to!
View attachment 204014

NATO is a bad deal for the American taxpayers. We should not pay any more than the average Nato country does.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Not according NPR..and by the way Trump never used the term "dues"... that's the MSM contribution.

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At 50 seconds into the video Trump speaks of money owed from past years, those would be the NATO dues.

Your OP is not about the dues but about the lack of their own defense spending.

Do try and keep up with your own post, that way I will not have to explain them to you.

"Grumpygator"..I didn't use the term "dues". Nor Did Trump.

Trump was using figures similar to what I showed asking countries to do what they agreed to i.e. spend at least 2% on NATO support.

Now that that minor point is settled, let's identify the point of the thread..
countries like Germany that are making money off gas & oil deal with Russia while spending less than 2% no NATO.

Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo
'Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo

They did not agree to spend 2% on NATO, they agreed to have a military budget that was at least 2% of their GDP.

You do not even understand what your own post show


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

That's a good point. So, are these countries meeting their agreed upon obligations? If not, why not?

Because they choose not to. Seems pretty simple

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Not according NPR..and by the way Trump never used the term "dues"... that's the MSM contribution.

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At NATO, Trump calls out allies on unpaid dues while staying mum on joint defense pact

At 50 seconds into the video Trump speaks of money owed from past years, those would be the NATO dues.

Your OP is not about the dues but about the lack of their own defense spending.

Do try and keep up with your own post, that way I will not have to explain them to you.

"Grumpygator"..I didn't use the term "dues". Nor Did Trump.

Trump was using figures similar to what I showed asking countries to do what they agreed to i.e. spend at least 2% on NATO support.

Now that that minor point is settled, let's identify the point of the thread..
countries like Germany that are making money off gas & oil deal with Russia while spending less than 2% no NATO.

Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo
'Germany is Totally Controlled By Russia': Trump Greets NATO Allies With Combative Opening Salvo

They did not agree to spend 2% on NATO, they agreed to have a military budget that was at least 2% of their GDP.

You do not even understand what your own post show


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"

• Indirect – or national – contributions are the largest and come, for instance, when a member volunteers equipment or troops to a military operation and bears the costs of the decision to do so.
• Direct contributions are made to finance requirements of the Alliance that serve the interests of all 29 members - and are not the responsibility of any single member - such as NATO-wide air defence or command and control systems. Costs are borne collectively, often using the principle of common funding.
• Within the principle of common funding, all 29 members contribute according to an agreed cost-share formula, based on Gross National Income, which represents a small percentage of each member’s defence budget.
• Common funding arrangements are used to finance NATO’s principal budgets: the civil budget (NATO HQ running costs), the military budget (costs of the integrated Command Structure) and the NATO Security Investment Programme (military capabilities).
• Projects can also be jointly funded, which means that the participating countries can identify the requirements, the priorities and the funding arrangements, but NATO provides political and financial oversight. The funding process is overseen by the North Atlantic Council, managed by the Resource Policy and Planning Board, and implemented by the Budget Committee and the Investment Committee."

Funding NATO

Weak minds try and misdirect.

I agree, that was a weak try at a misdirect by you!

It is good you can admit to these things.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Once again our President does the right thing and putting spotlight on the deadbeat NATO countries not paying their dues. PC is a disease and Donald J Trump is the cure.

Uhhh...this is not about dues, this is about individual military expenditures.

Uh, it's about keeping one's commitments.

This country has no room to whine about such things

 

[DustyInfinity]

So Gator, your saying Europe is paying its full Nato requirements, and that the US isn't basically defending all of Europe from Putin? Nobody is saying that Europe deosn't provide some defense to its own people, but it seems hard to defend that they are not depending on the US taxpayer to keep them safe. Before everyone continues to argue, why don't we come up with some agreed on standard of what Europe pays and what it is required to pay to meet its obligations. The whole my chart and stats are the real stats is annoying.