Why teachers need more pay

[Indeependent]

See teacher pay go up.
See teacher get fired.
See teacher collect unemployment.

If you get fired, you don't get unemployment.

In NY you do.
In NY it’s almost impossible for a teacher to be fired.
They have a Rubber Room where you spend the rest of your career chilling.

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

The NY Rubber Rooms are loaded with hundreds of teachers drawing 90+K a year with full benefits and waiting to retire and get their full benefits.
They get their raises every year plus raises for taking classes.
It’s a farce.

 

[sealybobo]

See teacher pay go up.
See teacher get fired.
See teacher collect unemployment.

If you get fired, you don't get unemployment.

In NY you do.
In NY it’s almost impossible for a teacher to be fired.
They have a Rubber Room where you spend the rest of your career chilling.

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

The NY Rubber Rooms are loaded with hundreds of teachers drawing 90+K a year with full benefits and waiting to retire and get their full benefits.
They get their raises every year plus raises for taking classes.
It’s a farce.

No doubt. But lets just talk about the teacher who works hard, does a good job and makes $55K a year which is the national average. They want to complain? That's pretty good money for being a teacher.

And I'm sick of hearing their job is tough. NOTHING is tougher than sales because you are month to month. And you can be fired for just having a bad month. Or when the economy takes a dump. Teachers keep their jobs until they are ready to retire.

They have stress and take work home with them? So do we. But we don't get summers off.

We have a teacher in our family. We laugh every time we hear she has a day off. Snow days, spring break, winter break, summers, Martin Luther King day, Presidents Day,

the majority of states require 180 days of student instruction.

Teachers work half a year basically.

Including weekends I get 120 days off. That means I work 240 days. Teachers can go fuck themselves.

Now someone earlier said they no longer get pensions. That's a good thing. We can't afford that shit and they aren't worth it. Save a 401K like the rest of us and if you don't like it, go do something else.

The truth is they chose to be teachers. They could have went to college to be something else. Why didn't they?

 

[Indeependent]

See teacher pay go up.
See teacher get fired.
See teacher collect unemployment.

If you get fired, you don't get unemployment.

In NY you do.
In NY it’s almost impossible for a teacher to be fired.
They have a Rubber Room where you spend the rest of your career chilling.

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

The NY Rubber Rooms are loaded with hundreds of teachers drawing 90+K a year with full benefits and waiting to retire and get their full benefits.
They get their raises every year plus raises for taking classes.
It’s a farce.

No doubt. But lets just talk about the teacher who works hard, does a good job and makes $55K a year which is the national average. They want to complain? That's pretty good money for being a teacher.

And I'm sick of hearing their job is tough. NOTHING is tougher than sales because you are month to month. And you can be fired for just having a bad month. Or when the economy takes a dump. Teachers keep their jobs until they are ready to retire.

They have stress and take work home with them? So do we. But we don't get summers off.

We have a teacher in our family. We laugh every time we hear she has a day off. Snow days, spring break, winter break, summers, Martin Luther King day, Presidents Day,

the majority of states require 180 days of student instruction.

Teachers work half a year basically.

Including weekends I get 120 days off. That means I work 240 days. Teachers can go fuck themselves.

Now someone earlier said they no longer get pensions. That's a good thing. We can't afford that shit and they aren't worth it. Save a 401K like the rest of us and if you don't like it, go do something else.

The truth is they chose to be teachers. They could have went to college to be something else. Why didn't they?

They are spoiled brats but they do have one thing on me...I cannot wake up 5:00AM every morning.

 

[bodecea]

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

They can’t go into lucrative careers. Teaching children doesn’t translate into the business world.

I know lawyers and engineers can go into business and find very lucrative jobs but I’m not sure what you think an English or history teacher is qualified to do?

What are some of these lucrative jobs you are talking about?

Companies are still only hiring people who have experience in the job in which they are being hired to do. That means companies aren’t hiring teachers to be accounting, hr, it, quality, sales, marketing, etc. you wouldn’t know what you were doing.

I know people who have done it in the state in which we live. Sales. Making bank.

I think people are getting sick of teachers crying about how they are underpaid and overworked.

In recent years the internet has provided an undeniably wonderful platform for teachers to share advice, ideas and experiences. But it has also provided a soapbox for tireless negativity and tiresome self-regard.

The corner of the staffroom where the moaners always congregate – elaborating on how much better things could be – has always been reassuringly easy to avoid. However, give these people a screen and a keyboard and they’ll exercise their thumbs until everyone’s as miserable as them.

Secret Teacher: we have one of the best jobs in the world, so stop moaning

Teachers are retiring and young people are seeing that teaching is NOT a good choice of career. Good luck with shortages.......we are already seeing it in SPED.

 

[sealybobo]

If you get fired, you don't get unemployment.

In NY you do.
In NY it’s almost impossible for a teacher to be fired.
They have a Rubber Room where you spend the rest of your career chilling.

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

The NY Rubber Rooms are loaded with hundreds of teachers drawing 90+K a year with full benefits and waiting to retire and get their full benefits.
They get their raises every year plus raises for taking classes.
It’s a farce.

No doubt. But lets just talk about the teacher who works hard, does a good job and makes $55K a year which is the national average. They want to complain? That's pretty good money for being a teacher.

And I'm sick of hearing their job is tough. NOTHING is tougher than sales because you are month to month. And you can be fired for just having a bad month. Or when the economy takes a dump. Teachers keep their jobs until they are ready to retire.

They have stress and take work home with them? So do we. But we don't get summers off.

We have a teacher in our family. We laugh every time we hear she has a day off. Snow days, spring break, winter break, summers, Martin Luther King day, Presidents Day,

the majority of states require 180 days of student instruction.

Teachers work half a year basically.

Including weekends I get 120 days off. That means I work 240 days. Teachers can go fuck themselves.

Now someone earlier said they no longer get pensions. That's a good thing. We can't afford that shit and they aren't worth it. Save a 401K like the rest of us and if you don't like it, go do something else.

The truth is they chose to be teachers. They could have went to college to be something else. Why didn't they?

They are spoiled brats but they do have one thing on me...I cannot wake up 5:00AM every morning.

I get up at 6am and get home at 5:30pm. That's almost 12 hours. What time do they get home? Or get off? If you say 4pm then WAAAAH

 

[sealybobo]

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

They can’t go into lucrative careers. Teaching children doesn’t translate into the business world.

I know lawyers and engineers can go into business and find very lucrative jobs but I’m not sure what you think an English or history teacher is qualified to do?

What are some of these lucrative jobs you are talking about?

Companies are still only hiring people who have experience in the job in which they are being hired to do. That means companies aren’t hiring teachers to be accounting, hr, it, quality, sales, marketing, etc. you wouldn’t know what you were doing.

I know people who have done it in the state in which we live. Sales. Making bank.

I think people are getting sick of teachers crying about how they are underpaid and overworked.

In recent years the internet has provided an undeniably wonderful platform for teachers to share advice, ideas and experiences. But it has also provided a soapbox for tireless negativity and tiresome self-regard.

The corner of the staffroom where the moaners always congregate – elaborating on how much better things could be – has always been reassuringly easy to avoid. However, give these people a screen and a keyboard and they’ll exercise their thumbs until everyone’s as miserable as them.

Secret Teacher: we have one of the best jobs in the world, so stop moaning

Teachers are retiring and young people are seeing that teaching is NOT a good choice of career. Good luck with shortages.......we are already seeing it in SPED.

You know who is to blame for this? Teachers! The schools are even addressing this. My brother took me to lunch he said the school told our sister in law and her co-workers that they need to stop complaining so much.

I think them being in a union has something to do with it. They are free to complain to each other and that negativity is contagious. If I went around my company complaining like that I'd be fired because I don't have a union protecting me.

Of course teachers believe they are overworked and underpaid. They've all gotten together and convinced each other of this. This would be ok if they were private employees who wanted to organize but they are government union workers who actually have it too good.

Funny us people who aren't protected by unions don't complain about our lack of job security as much as these spoiled brats complain about a job they can't be fired from and can leave whenever they want.

And one of them said they could leave for a very "lucrative" career doing something else. Although she can't say what career she's talking about and for some reason she stays. Oh please don't tell me it's because you care about the kids.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

They can’t go into lucrative careers. Teaching children doesn’t translate into the business world.

I know lawyers and engineers can go into business and find very lucrative jobs but I’m not sure what you think an English or history teacher is qualified to do?

What are some of these lucrative jobs you are talking about?

Companies are still only hiring people who have experience in the job in which they are being hired to do. That means companies aren’t hiring teachers to be accounting, hr, it, quality, sales, marketing, etc. you wouldn’t know what you were doing.

I know people who have done it in the state in which we live. Sales. Making bank.

I think people are getting sick of teachers crying about how they are underpaid and overworked.

In recent years the internet has provided an undeniably wonderful platform for teachers to share advice, ideas and experiences. But it has also provided a soapbox for tireless negativity and tiresome self-regard.

The corner of the staffroom where the moaners always congregate – elaborating on how much better things could be – has always been reassuringly easy to avoid. However, give these people a screen and a keyboard and they’ll exercise their thumbs until everyone’s as miserable as them.

Secret Teacher: we have one of the best jobs in the world, so stop moaning

Teachers are retiring and young people are seeing that teaching is NOT a good choice of career. Good luck with shortages.......we are already seeing it in SPED.

This should be good news for anyone who is going into teaching. They should be able to pick where they work and that shortage should raise wages. Supply and demand.

If I were poor I'd go to school to become a teacher since they say there is a shortage there should be no problem finding a $55K a year job.

How many people right out of college make $55K? Just don't get used to the money and then in 10 years say it's not enough. That's only because you spend too much. When you first started it was a lot of money. Now you are spoiled.

 

[evenflow1969]

teachers are not underpaid
they have it pretty fucking good for part timers

The reason we in the United States are so far behind on math and science is because the income difference in what one can make working for lets say a chemical companie and teaching is so far out of whack you would have to be insane or a boy scout that wants to give it away to teach. Add in they took all the good stuff out of the chemmistry sets. You want a kid to get excited about science hand him some pure sodium. PLay with that shit for a while. If that does not excite your curiosity, well you may as well be laying in a coffin.

 

[sealybobo]

teachers are not underpaid
they have it pretty fucking good for part timers

The reason we in the United States are so far behind on math and science is because the income difference in what one can make working for lets say a chemical companie and teaching is so far out of whack you would have to be insane or a boy scout that wants to give it away to teach. Add in they took all the good stuff out of the chemmistry sets. You want a kid to get excited about science hand him some pure sodium. PLay with that shit for a while. If that does not excite your curiosity, well you may as well be laying in a coffin.

Bullshit. We are number 5 in the world. So now that this argument has been debunked, why is it that our students are dumber than kids in other countries? I'll tell you why. Their parents are Republicans who tell them global warming isn't real and neither is evolution.

This is why the US is falling behind.

 

[Unkotare]

Let’s see, I get up at 4:30 and usually don’t get home until around 9 or 10. Plus working weekends.


Some of y’all are greedy and some of y’all are lazy.

 

[sealybobo]

Let’s see, I get up at 4:30 and usually don’t get home until around 9 or 10. Plus working weekends.


Some of y’all are greedy and some of y’all are lazy.

Sorry but what a loser.

 

[Unkotare]

Let’s see, I get up at 4:30 and usually don’t get home until around 9 or 10. Plus working weekends.


Some of y’all are greedy and some of y’all are lazy.

It takes a lot of time and energy to do what’s right and to try and do right by your own family. It’s not for the weak or faint of heart.

 

[sealybobo]

Let’s see, I get up at 4:30 and usually don’t get home until around 9 or 10. Plus working weekends.


Some of y’all are greedy and some of y’all are lazy.

It takes a lot of time and energy to do what’s right and to try and do right by your own family. It’s not for the weak or faint of heart.

It takes some more time and energy than it does others. If you only make $30K a year then it takes a lot of time and energy. If you are waking up at 5am and getting home at 10pm and you work weekends, you are working way too hard.

If I had a family, I would get home by 5:15PM and I would not have to work overtime to pay the bills.

My brother is a VP and he works a lot of hours. Too many hours. But I remind him he makes a half million dollars a year so shurt the fuck up. If you work as much as he does and you make less than $100K then maybe you chose the wrong profession.

You can make fun of sales people but I make almost $100K and I only word 9 hours a day. 8 with a lunch. I'm out the door at 5pm sharp and I never take work home with me. EVER.

 

[Unkotare]

Lazy, selfish douche bag. To many self-centered weaklings in society today.

 

[sealybobo]

Lazy, selfish douche bag. To many self-centered weaklings in society today.

Why would you call anyone who only works 40 hours lazy? What a stupid think for a poor person who has to work 2 jobs to make ends meet to say. Makes you sound jealous or bitter.

Because we don't have to work from sun up to sun down, that makes us lazy? You make no sense.

Do you think it's noble of you that you work long hours and weekends? It's not. You do it because you have to. Or because you don't enjoy your free time. If no one wanted to hang out with me on weekends I'd get a weekend job too.

Why am I lazy? Because I enjoy my free time? What about what I said makes me selfish?

Did you see what I wrote earlier? Teachers crying to other teachers is why teaching gets such a bad rap. This is another reason to break your union. And if I told people at my company how much I made, I could get let go. It's no one else's business but your own. So this is collective group victim mentality.

I'll give you the same advice Repubicans give us. If you don't like your job get another one. Go back to school or start your own business.. You are a loser because you weren't smart enough to become asalesperson . or doctor.

 

[sealybobo]

My brother is going to retire at 50 with 5 mill in the bank. I guess that makes him lazy?

 

[SweetSue92]

as if any skill or experience is necessary to be some sales monkey. The only real requirement for sales is a lack of self-esteem.

There was a girl doing my job before they replaced her with me. She sold $40k a month I sell $150k a month. I think she went back to school to become a teacher. Something she can handle.

I have never seen any other profession complain about how hard their job is as I hear from public school teachers. It’s amazing. We all went to high school so none of us are buying it. It’s just not that hard of a job.

A nurse is a hard job and they don’t get summers off or pensions

Who here thinks teaching is harder than their job? And do you make more or less than a teacher.

That’s a tough question because I’m doing great now so I’d say my job is easier and I make more than teachers but when the economy tanks I can lose my job and I don’t get summers off or a pension.

My sister in law makes $70k and she will get a pension when she retires. And she gets summers off? Shit I’d take that.

She too talks about how hard her job is but she’s never been fired and the rest of us work just as hard so we don’t want to hear your whining. And you make as much as you should.

What do you think a teacher should make? $30-$60k. Period

I guarantee you would be exhausted after three days in my job put together. You would be exhausted and you would wonder how on earth I do it, day after day, week, after week, month after month, year after year put together.

By noon today, on this day, today, I will have taught 100 children. 100 children will have come through my door, I will have been by myself, on my feet delivering instruction. By noon. TODAY. That's half my day.

You couldn't do it. Again I say: Wednesday of this week you would be dragging your sorry self to the couch thinking, "How on earth does Sue do this."

I'd put money on it. You have no idea. None.

Oh please. Wash rinse repeat.

Ok everyone open your books to page 12. We’re going to talk about something I’ve talked about for 12 years.

I could do your job easy. Oh, and just take a seat. Maybe you need a chair?

I take it back that you wouldn't last til Wednesday. The kids would have you chewed up and spit out within an hour. Two tops.

 

[SweetSue92]

I just don’t understand what you mean. They’ll be paying you more than they make for your services? What does that mean?

I contract to lots of sorts that have an elitist view of those that work in the physical world , it's all beneath them

after all, they've spent $$$$$$ on an education.....

they're blinded by blatantly condesending socio-economic views

makes them easy pickin's , which they'll even thank us for

~S~

Yea well we came from nothing and our kids are well grounded but I do agree a lot of those spoiled kids will grow up to be major disappointments.

It costs $25k a year to go to Cranbrook. I would expect great things from them. If they became nurses and teachers I’d be disappointed.

My nephew wants to work in the front office of the tigers pistons lions or red wings. He’s got a good head on his shoulders.

And his parents will leave him millions so he should be ok.

And he doesn’t have to pay for college so while your kids are paying off their student loans he’ll be saving for his first home

Bragging a lot about these nephews. What about your own kids, got any?

 

[SweetSue92]

Yeah, gotta agree with Mr H on this one.

Regardless of how you feel about unions, the public school unions have made a mess of shit. With a job as important as educating our youngest generation, why would we want our educators given consideration of anything -but- performance?

Why would we allow them to base employment decisions on seniority?

Also, you look at how the basic union dynamic works. The union negotiates with the employer to get higher pay, more benefits, and less requirements for the workers they represent. The employer concedes what is required to continue to operate, and the difference is passed onto the consumers.

Public school unions are no different. They aren't representing the children, they're representing the teachers and administrators. They fight to get higher pay and lower expectations for the educators and the consumers are the ones that have to eat the cost. In this case the consumers are the taxpayers and the kids.

Now, in my view, most of our larger educational issues in this country are primarily cultural. It doesn't matter how much you improve the school system, when our popular culture idolizes ignorance and persecutes, as nerds and dorks, anyone with intellectual values and pass times, we're gonna end up with a lot of willfully ignorant dipshits.

That said. . . Ban union seniority rules in public schools and start demanding more accountability and see if shit doesn't improve. I don't know if you realize it, but upping the salary will only put better teachers in the classrooms if the shittier teachers are forced to move aside. With seniority, that latter requirement won't be met. You'll just be paying the current batch of fuck-ups more money to continue fucking up with impunity.

Also, whoever said that we should stop spending so much on the buildings, I also agree with. I wouldn't put the fault on the contractors, though. By definition, a business is looking to maximize its profits. They're just doing their jobs.

The problem is that we've given our government officials too much discretion in how much to blow on individual contracts and there's too little transparency to their spending decisions. Make it harder for criminal enterprises to buy off political contracts and, VOILA!, less criminal enterprises will buy off political contracts. You know why you've never seen a toilet seat in anyone's house that you know that cost 650 bucks? The same reason you've never seen a coffee maker in your friend's kitchen that cost 7 G's. Cuz regular people who have to spend their -own- money don't pay fucking 650 for a toilet seat or 7 G's for a fuckin coffee maker! Throwing money at a problem doesn't fix shit if the people responsible for distributing that money have the integrity and spending habits of meth addicts.

Nothing taxpayer-funded should have a union, ever.

I agree. And just like at my work none of us know what each other make.

So it’s up to you to go convince the principle that you are worth a raise. Don’t walk in with all your fellow teachers and demand you all get a raise. Most of you don’t deserve a raise. Especially the ones who are complaining how hard it is. Maybe it is too hard for you. More money isn’t going to make you better or the job easier.

Please don't comment on education topics until you learn to spell "principal".

He hated school, he sucked at it, therefore, teachers suck and have easy jobs.

How many times have we seen THAT argument?

 

[SweetSue92]

There is really nothing to argue here--the market will work. And the market IS working. Teachers are deciding, in pretty big numbers that the job many of them adore is no longer worth the energy, effort, time, sweat, tears and etc. for the money they are being paid.

Good luck, America, replacing us with the money you are willing to pay. I mean that's it. Many on this board have already admitted it's Lord of the Flies for them--they will pay dearly for their own children's education; nothing at all for anyone else's.

So there we are. And the decay continues apace.

Actually I think we will still be able to find good teachers and you and my sister in law prove teachers will complain no matter how much we pay you.

My sister in law makes $70k, will get a pension and gets healthcare and summers off. She complains.

So some girl who graduates high school has to decide what she’s capable of doing. What will she do if not be a teacher? You act like teachers can just easily go do something else. If they could have why did they go into teaching?

Maybe they can be hair dressers but that doesn’t pay $50k and you don’t get summers off and no pension after 30 years. So you tell me what those women are going to do instead of teach.

Many of my colleagues have left teaching and gone into lucrative careers. ??? It seems that you're assuming "those women" are stupid. If they're stupid, I don't know--they shouldn't be teachers in the first place. But if they're not stupid, believe me, in this economy, there are places and people who will hire them.

Now I ask you: how do you expect to find smart, good teachers if those smart, good teachers can go into lucrative careers elsewhere, work much fewer hours year round even if they DO NOT get summers off, set their own bathroom breaks and schedules during the day, not have to grade papers and etc? Do not get me wrong, I adore teaching. I've been at this for 25 years. I just want to know how YOU propose to work this out.

Do tell us, Mr. Genius. Maybe these really smart, savvy women would love to work 12 hour days for 35K a year and buy school supplies for their students from that money and work second jobs for 30 years with dwindling pensions out of the goodness of their hearts--is that how you figure it?

They can’t go into lucrative careers. Teaching children doesn’t translate into the business world.

I know lawyers and engineers can go into business and find very lucrative jobs but I’m not sure what you think an English or history teacher is qualified to do?

What are some of these lucrative jobs you are talking about?

Companies are still only hiring people who have experience in the job in which they are being hired to do. That means companies aren’t hiring teachers to be accounting, hr, it, quality, sales, marketing, etc. you wouldn’t know what you were doing.

I know people who have done it in the state in which we live. Sales. Making bank.

I read this from a teacher on Reddit

Can we concede that teaching isn't REALLY the hardest thing in the world?

I'm a new teacher and I absolutely think that the job is insanely difficult and eats up tons of my free time, but I think it's important for us to stay grounded and realize that almost everyone works very hard and that there are MUCH more difficult jobs than teaching,

I used to have the same complaints: it sucks to take your work home with you, it sucks to lack support, why do I need to work with these BS standards, and most importantly, I wish I had a "normal" 9 to 5 job.

But the more people I meet, the more I realize how rare a 9 to 5 job actually is. My other friends all have extremely difficult jobs, and they lack many of the perks we have. My accountant friend works 60 hours a week actually in his office; at least we can take our work home. My engineer friend has projects to worry about every night and dedicates a lot of her free time to those. Every customer service job works with ungrateful/nasty people, and they need to act with the same respect/composure that we do. Even when I see people working in fast food/retail, I think "Wow, thank god I don't have to do that."

Additionally, I see so many perks compared to others. I teach middle school in a district that has half day professional developments every month, so between these, field trips, assemblies, snow days, holidays, and meetings, I VERY RARELY have to work 3 full weeks in a row. Even when I do, The school day is only 6 hours and I get a prep (most days) and a lunch totalling in an hour and a half. That's only 4.5 hours of real work a day (almost 4 hours if you count time lost to class transitions), not including testing days/projects in which I just help students who are the ones doing the most of the work.

I don't know how I expect this to go in a forum of teachers, but it's something I've been thinking about.

Those accountants and engineers making "50K tops" genius?