Why so much hate for the Confederacy.? It can't be about slavery.

[Syriusly]

As those states were not in rebellion. The EP was used to weaken the ability of those in rebellion to continue. It worked.

Exactly what I've been saying... all those states were in rebellion, they had declared independence from the US and felt no inclination to abide by a proclamation from a US president. The EP was totally worthless in terms of freeing anyone. It didn't free slaves in the North or areas of the South under Northern control... that's what I've said from the start and what I will continue to say.

It's Constitutionality rests in the powers of the president as commander-in-chief of the military against insurrectionists. However, that implies they are no longer US citizens with Constitutional protections under the 4th Amendment.

Lincoln actually exploited a loophole to his advantage. While insisting southern citizens were always and forever US citizens and never anything else... he utilized a provision reserved for non-citizens... enemies of state... those who do not have citizenship protections under the constitution. He established that on the basis of the CSA declaring their independence while maintaining they didn't exist as an entity. He had his cake and ate it too, so to speak.

Aren't we all glad he did?
You keep taking this further into the weeds.
The slaves were freed. They never went back to slavery.

"At this point, what difference does it make?"

right?

So the hundreds of thousands of former slaves who enrolled for service with the union weren't free?

I doubt there were hundreds of thousands, maybe thousands, perhaps up to 10~20 thousand. Some former slaves also fought for the Confederacy believe it or not. There were also slaves being freed through manumission, so the numbers become very unclear as to where these 'freed slaves' came.

My point has been the ignorance of thinking the Emancipation Proclamation effectively "freed" anything. It didn't. Blacks were not freed from slavery until ratification of the 13th Amendment.

Again... no argument that slaves were confiscated by, and became the property of, the United States Army! If the General wanted to turn them into soldiers, he had that authority under the law. The slave did not become free when he became property of the United States Army.

The Second Confiscation Act says otherwise

The Second Confiscation Act July 17 1862

SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That if any person shall hereafter incite, set on foot, assist, or engage in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States, or the laws thereof, or shall give aid or comfort thereto, or shall engage in, or give aid and comfort to, any such existing rebellion or insurrection, and be convicted thereof, such person shall be punished by imprisonment for a period not exceeding ten years, or by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars, and by the liberation of all his slaves, if any he have; or by both of said punishments, at the discretion of the court.

SEC. 9. And be it further enacted, That all slaves of persons who shall hereafter be engaged in rebellion against the government of the United States, or who shall in any way give aid or comfort thereto, escaping from such persons and taking refuge within the lines of the army; and all slaves captured from such persons or deserted by them and coming under the control of the government of the United States; and all slaves of such person found on [or] being within any place occupied by rebel forces and afterwards occupied by the forces of the United States, shall be deemed captives of war, and shall be forever free of their servitude, and not again held as slaves.

Not property of the United States Army- but free- liberated.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

As those states were not in rebellion. The EP was used to weaken the ability of those in rebellion to continue. It worked.

Exactly what I've been saying... all those states were in rebellion, they had declared independence from the US and felt no inclination to abide by a proclamation from a US president. The EP was totally worthless in terms of freeing anyone. It didn't free slaves in the North or areas of the South under Northern control... that's what I've said from the start and what I will continue to say.

It's Constitutionality rests in the powers of the president as commander-in-chief of the military against insurrectionists. However, that implies they are no longer US citizens with Constitutional protections under the 4th Amendment.

Lincoln actually exploited a loophole to his advantage. While insisting southern citizens were always and forever US citizens and never anything else... he utilized a provision reserved for non-citizens... enemies of state... those who do not have citizenship protections under the constitution. He established that on the basis of the CSA declaring their independence while maintaining they didn't exist as an entity. He had his cake and ate it too, so to speak.

Aren't we all glad he did?
You keep taking this further into the weeds.
The slaves were freed. They never went back to slavery.

"At this point, what difference does it make?"

right?

So the hundreds of thousands of former slaves who enrolled for service with the union weren't free?

I doubt there were hundreds of thousands, maybe thousands, perhaps up to 10~20 thousand. Some former slaves also fought for the Confederacy believe it or not. There were also slaves being freed through manumission, so the numbers become very unclear as to where these 'freed slaves' came.

My point has been the ignorance of thinking the Emancipation Proclamation effectively "freed" anything. It didn't. Blacks were not freed from slavery until ratification of the 13th Amendment.

Again... no argument that slaves were confiscated by, and became the property of, the United States Army! If the General wanted to turn them into soldiers, he had that authority under the law. The slave did not become free when he became property of the United States Army.

No one was forced into service. You're reaching in an attempt to stay on an ever shrinking path. Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.
From page 62
A quote from Lincoln a year after EP.

No... You can't free something you don't have in your possession to free.... sorry.... can't be done.
...

Yet he did. Lincoln also signed the law in 1862 that gave freedom to all the slaves in D.C.

All the areas your map shows where slaves were freed is CSA territory which was not under Lincoln's control until the CSA was defeated.

It was Union territory all the time.
And the Union controlled those areas defeated by force of arms.

And yes, the slaves were freed.

Answer my question now... Why did Lincoln not free the slaves held in West Virginia?

Part of the deal with being allowed into the Union as a new state was on the condition West Virginia emancipate their slaves.

You are clueless on the Constitution and history. I seriously doubt there were many slaves in D.C. but it's not a state so there is the statutory difference. The president could abolish slavery in DC, just as many other states had done... any state could have voted to abolish slavery and be a free state. If they did and you wanted to have and keep slaves, you'd have to take them elsewhere.

No... the slaves WEREN'T freed... and we can keep repeating these lines to each other like 7-year-olds if you like, you're not going to bully me. Because Lincoln issued a piece of paper that said slaves in the South were free, did not mean the slave owners in the South rushed out to unchain their slaves! If that's what you think... you must be about 7 years old..

Hmmm yes- I can keep repeating the facts- and you of course can keep trying to ignore the facts- because that is what you Confederate Revisionists do.

• As I have pointed out- slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation in specific regions held by Federal troops.
  
• As I have pointed out- the majority of slaves were freed from legal slavery as Federal troops liberated rebel territories.
• And slaves escaping their slave masters were immediately freed once they escaped to any territory held by Federal troops.

Millions of slaves were eventually freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an amazing accomplishment from one single act.

Reciting bullet points you've been taught by your United States textbooks is not impressing me. NO ONE was freed by the EP! It took the 13th Amendment to end Slavery in America.... that IS a FACT!

You're simply wrong.

From my link.


More than a year after the proclamation took effect Lincoln declared that clearly no harm had been done by it.

"On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite a hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen, and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which, as facts, there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have had them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he cannot face the truth."

Are you a " union man"? You seem to be.

 

[paperview]

...then volunteered to fight the Confederacy.

Again, SOME blacks fought FOR the Confederacy.

Not sure why you feel compelled to argue the point- but sure-
180,000 blacks for the Union- risking amongst other things, immediate execution if captured
Compared to a few thousand who fought for the Confederacy

The number of African-Americans, both slave and free, that served in the Confederate Army in a direct combat capacity was minor, and was never official policy. After the war, the State of Tennessee granted Confederate Pensions to nearly 300 African Americans for their service to the Confederacy.[52][53] Discussions amongst CSA officers on the potential enlistment of slaves is highlighted in the section above. While an accurate estimate of the number of African Americans who served in the Confederate armed forces may never be known, the United States Census of 1890 lists 3,273 African Americans who claimed to be Confederate veterans[54]

Not even a few thousand (Wiki is not a good source for that info - lot of people mucking with it
-- bad footnotes)

The definition of those Tenn. pensioners for Colored confederates included "servants"

See: http://www.tn.gov/tsla/history/state/recordgroups/findingaids/rg3.pdf

Also, too:

"'It's pure fantasy,' contends James McPherson, a Princeton historian and one of the nation's leading Civil War scholars.

Adds Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus at the National Park Service: 'It's b.s., wishful thinking.'

Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy, has studied the records of 150,000 Southern soldiers and found fewer than a dozen were black. 'Of course, if I documented 12, someone would start adding zeros,' he says.

"These and other scholars say claims about black rebels derive from unreliable anecdotes, a blurring of soldiers and laborers, and the rapid spread on the Internet of what Mr. McPherson calls 'pseudohistory.' Thousands of blacks did accompany rebel troops -- as servants, cooks, teamsters and musicians. Most were slaves who served involuntarily; until the final days of the war, the Confederacy staunchly refused to enlist black soldiers.

"Some blacks carried guns for their masters and wore spare or cast-off uniforms, which may help explain eyewitness accounts of blacks units. But any blacks who actually fought did so unofficially, either out of personal loyalty or self-defense, many historians say.

"They also bristle at what they see as the disingenuous twist on political correctness fueling the black Confederate fad. 'It's a search for a multicultural Confederacy, a desperate desire to feel better about your ancestors,' says Leslie Rowland, a University of Maryland historian. 'If you suggest that some blacks supported the South, then you can deny that the Confederacy was about slavery and white supremacy.'

"David Blight, an Amherst College historian, likens the trend to bygone notions about 'happy plantation darkies.' Confederate groups invited devoted ex-slaves to reunions and even won Senate approval in 1923 for a 'mammy' monument in Washington (it was never built). Black Confederates, Mr. Blight says, are a new and more palatable way to 'legitimize the Confederacy.'"

Wall Street Journal, May 8, 1997

 

[Boss]

An estimated 180,000 African Americans fought for the Union- a large portion of them slaves freed because of the Emancipation Act and then volunteered to fight the Confederacy.

I am not certain why you are in such denial that the Emancipation did not in fact free slaves- but that is what it is- denial.

180k African-Americans... you don't say how many were freed slaves. You simply imply "a large portion" but how many is a "large portion" in your mind? We're already down to... IF ALL 180k blacks were freed slaves they represent only 5% of the slaves total.... we already know there weren't 180k freed slaves so it has to be less than 5%, the number of slaves you are presenting. That means at least 95% were still enslaved somewhere by someone. Not counting, of course, the ones who died while in custody of the US Military.... we won't talk about those!

LOL- how do you already know that there weren't 180,000 freed slaves when by the end of the war millions had been freed?

Not to mention the ones who died while in the custody of the Confederacy......you don't want to talk about those.

You said "180k African-Americans fought, most were freed slaves..." I am quoting your figures when I say we already know 180k weren't all freed slaves. Every black man in America, free or otherwise, doesn't count as a freed slave. So somewhere considerably less than 180k were actual freed slaves, but even at 180k... that's only 4.8% of the slave population of 4 million.

You keep claiming "millions were freed" but you've only accounted for a few thousand who went and fought for the Union. How were "millions freed" in territory not under control of the US government at the time? Do you think Southern plantation owners heard of Lincoln's proclamation and ran out to unshackle their slaves and free them? ....I guess that's about as naive as you're ideas about dealing with terrorist groups, guns or racism and flags... so it doesn't really surprise me.

 

[Boss]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

 

[Syriusly]

An estimated 180,000 African Americans fought for the Union- a large portion of them slaves freed because of the Emancipation Act and then volunteered to fight the Confederacy.

I am not certain why you are in such denial that the Emancipation did not in fact free slaves- but that is what it is- denial.

180k African-Americans... you don't say how many were freed slaves. You simply imply "a large portion" but how many is a "large portion" in your mind? We're already down to... IF ALL 180k blacks were freed slaves they represent only 5% of the slaves total.... we already know there weren't 180k freed slaves so it has to be less than 5%, the number of slaves you are presenting. That means at least 95% were still enslaved somewhere by someone. Not counting, of course, the ones who died while in custody of the US Military.... we won't talk about those!

LOL- how do you already know that there weren't 180,000 freed slaves when by the end of the war millions had been freed?

Not to mention the ones who died while in the custody of the Confederacy......you don't want to talk about those.

You said "180k African-Americans fought, most were freed slaves..." I am quoting your figures when I say we already know 180k weren't all freed slaves. Every black man in America, free or otherwise, doesn't count as a freed slave. So somewhere considerably less than 180k were actual freed slaves, but even at 180k... that's only 4.8% of the slave population of 4 million.

You keep claiming "millions were freed" but you've only accounted for a few thousand who went and fought for the Union. How were "millions freed" in territory not under control of the US government at the time?

Now you are just circling around back to your original idiotic arguments.

So I will post what I have been saying all along- your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem


From post #495,

You actually had a post that had something correct- all the way up to the Emancipation Proclamation- when you spewed the revisionists BS line.

All of the slaves in the territories marked in red were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an estimated 20,000 slaves.

All of the areas is pink (or taupe) were the areas that eventually had all of the slaves freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. The Emancipation Proclamation freed the majority of slaves in America

From Post 519

Once again- the areas in red were the areas where slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- despite the revisionist history that some are trying to create- an estimated 20,000 slaves were immediately freed- and were recognized as freed- by the Emancipation Proclamation.

The areas in pink/taupe were freed as Union Troops took control over the rebellious territories. The majority of slaves within the United States were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation before the 13th Amendment went into effect.

Post 526

Clearly it wasn't impossible. Slaves in parts of the United States were freed immediately. Slaves who escaped the slave holding rebel states were free when they reached Union lines. And as Union troops recaptured Rebel held territory, the slaves in those regions were freed.

Post 658

And all of the areas that the Emancipation Proclamation applied to- the striped areas- had those slaves liberated prior to the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

Tens of Thousands of slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation

By the end of the war, all of the slaves in the territory shown in stripes above were liberated by Federal troops under the Emancipation Proclamation.

And those are the facts.

 

[Syriusly]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

You keep making those claims- and back up nothing.

 

[Boss]

An estimated 180,000 African Americans fought for the Union- a large portion of them slaves freed because of the Emancipation Act and then volunteered to fight the Confederacy.

I am not certain why you are in such denial that the Emancipation did not in fact free slaves- but that is what it is- denial.

180k African-Americans... you don't say how many were freed slaves. You simply imply "a large portion" but how many is a "large portion" in your mind? We're already down to... IF ALL 180k blacks were freed slaves they represent only 5% of the slaves total.... we already know there weren't 180k freed slaves so it has to be less than 5%, the number of slaves you are presenting. That means at least 95% were still enslaved somewhere by someone. Not counting, of course, the ones who died while in custody of the US Military.... we won't talk about those!

LOL- how do you already know that there weren't 180,000 freed slaves when by the end of the war millions had been freed?

Not to mention the ones who died while in the custody of the Confederacy......you don't want to talk about those.

You said "180k African-Americans fought, most were freed slaves..." I am quoting your figures when I say we already know 180k weren't all freed slaves. Every black man in America, free or otherwise, doesn't count as a freed slave. So somewhere considerably less than 180k were actual freed slaves, but even at 180k... that's only 4.8% of the slave population of 4 million.

You keep claiming "millions were freed" but you've only accounted for a few thousand who went and fought for the Union. How were "millions freed" in territory not under control of the US government at the time?

Now you are just circling around back to your original idiotic arguments.

So I will post what I have been saying all along- your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem


From post #495,

You actually had a post that had something correct- all the way up to the Emancipation Proclamation- when you spewed the revisionists BS line.

All of the slaves in the territories marked in red were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an estimated 20,000 slaves.

All of the areas is pink (or taupe) were the areas that eventually had all of the slaves freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. The Emancipation Proclamation freed the majority of slaves in America

View attachment 45939


From Post 519

Once again- the areas in red were the areas where slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- despite the revisionist history that some are trying to create- an estimated 20,000 slaves were immediately freed- and were recognized as freed- by the Emancipation Proclamation.

The areas in pink/taupe were freed as Union Troops took control over the rebellious territories. The majority of slaves within the United States were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation before the 13th Amendment went into effect.

Post 526

Clearly it wasn't impossible. Slaves in parts of the United States were freed immediately. Slaves who escaped the slave holding rebel states were free when they reached Union lines. And as Union troops recaptured Rebel held territory, the slaves in those regions were freed.

Post 658

And all of the areas that the Emancipation Proclamation applied to- the striped areas- had those slaves liberated prior to the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

View attachment 45940

Tens of Thousands of slaves were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation

By the end of the war, all of the slaves in the territory shown in stripes above were liberated by Federal troops under the Emancipation Proclamation.

And those are the facts.

This is becoming exasperating. The EP only applied to places where the property could be seized as a matter of war powers or areas where previous legislatures had already outlawed slavery. States who were not a part of the Confederacy were not eligible because those people who owned slaves were not insurrectionists but American citizens with 4th Amendment protection. This also applied to the slaves owned in Union-held areas at the time of the proclamation.

You can prattle on about how many slaves were "freed" but in all practicality, they were NOT freed. They remained enslaved on plantations across the South, they remained impressed by the US Army.

Again... Ratification of the 13th is what ended slavery in America.

Anything else is a lie.

 

[Boss]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

You keep making those claims- and back up nothing.

Well I am sorry but the sources I can give you are not anointed by the writers of US history books to glorify the bloodiest war our nation ever fought. I think I already said, Frederick Douglass wrote about these atrocities in the 1870s and published accounts in his newspaper from people who were there and experienced it. Is Frederick Douglass a liar?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

.

Most were not detained as there weren't the resources to care for them.
In fact, front line units had recruiters who would greet runaways and offer them pay for recruitment. Your little perch is shrinking.

The only thing cleansed was my edited post.
for those that missed it.

"The Boss" stated that no slaves were freed by the EP. The next iteration was that it wasn't hundreds of thousands but maybe tens of thousands. I then posted a quote from Lincoln refrencing 130k only a year after the EP. He edited that out for his response above.

We all are free to have our opinions. We just can't change the facts. Sometimes, (as is the normal course of learning), we need to reevaluate our position.

More than a year after the proclamation took effect Lincoln declared that clearly no harm had been done by it.

"On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite a hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen, and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which, as facts, there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have had them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he cannot face the truth."

 

[Boss]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

.

Most were not detained as there weren't the resources to care for them.
In fact, front line units had recruiters who would greet runaways and offer them pay for recruitment. Your little perch is shrinking.

The only thing cleansed was my edited post.
for those that missed it.

"The Boss" stated that no slaves were freed by the EP. The next iteration was that it wasn't hundreds of thousands but maybe tens of thousands. I then posted a quote from Lincoln refrencing 130k only a year after the EP. He edited that out for his response above.

We all are free to have our opinions. We just can't change the facts. Sometimes, (as is the normal course of learning), we need to reevaluate our position.

More than a year after the proclamation took effect Lincoln declared that clearly no harm had been done by it.

"On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite a hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen, and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which, as facts, there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have had them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he cannot face the truth."

You have a quote from a politician arguing his case for his actions. Like Obama claiming he created 10 million new jobs... it means diddly-squat.

Lincoln mentions soldiers, seamen and laborers but it doesn't mention what they were paid for their services, does it? Nope... because most of the "freed slaves" weren't paid anything.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Slaves were walking away everyday as battles drew near. As they found their way into union occupied territory they were free to go where they pleased.
No wonder you don't get it. You're not reading posts.

I keep reading the cleansed propaganda your government put out to make itself look glorious in victory. Not ALL slaves were free to go where they pleased. It was very much up to the colonel or general who captured them. If they were young and able-bodied strapping young black men, they were very often exploited and used to do manual labor for the Army. Women, children and old folks were carted off to refugee camps. You don't just let random people wander around occupied enemy territory.

.

Most were not detained as there weren't the resources to care for them.
In fact, front line units had recruiters who would greet runaways and offer them pay for recruitment. Your little perch is shrinking.

The only thing cleansed was my edited post.
for those that missed it.

"The Boss" stated that no slaves were freed by the EP. The next iteration was that it wasn't hundreds of thousands but maybe tens of thousands. I then posted a quote from Lincoln refrencing 130k only a year after the EP. He edited that out for his response above.

We all are free to have our opinions. We just can't change the facts. Sometimes, (as is the normal course of learning), we need to reevaluate our position.

More than a year after the proclamation took effect Lincoln declared that clearly no harm had been done by it.

"On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite a hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen, and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which, as facts, there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have had them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he cannot face the truth."

You have a quote from a politician arguing his case for his actions. Like Obama claiming he created 10 million new jobs... it means diddly-squat.

Lincoln mentions soldiers, seamen and laborers but it doesn't mention what they were paid for their services, does it? Nope... because most of the "freed slaves" weren't paid anything.

POOF!
Your perch is gone. You are now freefalling into oblivion.

 

[Boss]

POOF!
Your perch is gone. You are now freefalling into oblivion.

...Now we resort to pure trolling.