Why is jesus not a jew in churches?

[BenMarbleMD]

Jesus didn't 'throw out' the OT, he simply fulfilled the Law...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Though He was born as a 'Jew', the Jewish religion was based more on customs of which Jesus did not agree with. Jesus was/is the Word, He is what truth is based on. He himself is not of any 'religion'. Religion is a belief system, Jesus does not need to 'believe' in anything, He KNOWS truth because He IS the truth.

I must remind you of one simple fact...

the bible is NOT the 'word of GOD'!

It is words written by humans just like every other book i.e. "GOD" does NOT write books

Excuse me, but how do you figure YOU can speak definitively to what God does and does not do? You talk to Him on the phone recently or something?

I DO hope you're not going to give us that pedantic, childish argument about "it was a human holding the pen, so it was a human who wrote it", because any secretary can happily tell you about the practice of dictation and trascription.

We can easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were all written by HUMAN HANDS...

We can NOT easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were transcribed from "GOD" via ESPN

some people choose to have 'faith' that any one or all are the actual words of "GOD"
"GOD" gave us everything in the universe so since "GOD" gave us humans then sure one could make the indirect argument that a book was 'from GOD' but that argument would also mean that ALL BOOKS ARE FROM "GOD" bc all books are written by HUMANS! But of course, the religious extremists don't want to hear that simple fact. Rather than believe in the reality before them that the books they follow were written by HUMANS who made mistakes just like all humans do they'd rather believe every single word is the 'perfect word from GOD'.....well that is a nice Utopian fantasy...just like Santa Claus!

 

[Foxfyre]

I must remind you of one simple fact...

the bible is NOT the 'word of GOD'!

It is words written by humans just like every other book i.e. "GOD" does NOT write books

Excuse me, but how do you figure YOU can speak definitively to what God does and does not do? You talk to Him on the phone recently or something?

I DO hope you're not going to give us that pedantic, childish argument about "it was a human holding the pen, so it was a human who wrote it", because any secretary can happily tell you about the practice of dictation and trascription.

We can easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were all written by HUMAN HANDS...

We can NOT easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were transcribed from "GOD" via ESPN

some people choose to have 'faith' that any one or all are the actual words of "GOD"
"GOD" gave us everything in the universe so since "GOD" gave us humans then sure one could make the indirect argument that a book was 'from GOD' but that argument would also mean that ALL BOOKS ARE FROM "GOD" bc all books are written by HUMANS! But of course, the religious extremists don't want to hear that simple fact. Rather than believe in the reality before them that the books they follow were written by HUMANS who made mistakes just like all humans do they'd rather believe every single word is the 'perfect word from GOD'.....well that is a nice Utopian fantasy...just like Santa Claus!

She wasn't questioning whether it was written by human hands. We all know that it was.

She was questioning your assertion that it is not the Word of God.

When I dictate to my secretary/scribe/prophet or whatever, it is by his or her hand that my words are committed to paper/parchment. But it is nevertheless my words.

I figure those writing down what they perceive to be the Word of God would take even more care to get it right than would my secretary taking down my words.

(Disclaimer: Almost nobody believes everything included in the Old and New Testaments were dictated/inspired of God. Some of it is poetry expressing the deepest fears, joys, concerns, and hopes of certain people of the Bible. Some of it is the perception or understanding of people as to what or who God is and expects of them. Some of it is allegorical or metaphorical or symbolic in order to teach concepts and principles to others. Some of it is recitation of historical events. And nobody who has been blessed and enriched by Bible content doubts that some of it was inspired by God/given by God.)

 

[Dr Grump]

It's kind of like how Barack is no longer a Muslim now that he has arisen as the Obamessiah.

In order for Barack to no longer be a Muslim, he had to be one in the first place.

Now say 'thank you' to me for educating your ignorant arse....

 

[SmarterThanHick]

1- There was no such a thing as a "Jews" in Jesus times and prior.

I think you should review your history. Someone else pointed out

[to show that man shapes god in his image, not the other way around.

Incidentally, if you've ever been to Israel, you'd know that most Jewish people are caucasian.

If you've ever been to Israel, you'd know that the people of the area, be it Muslim, Jewish, or otherwise, are all darker skinned, not the pale caucasian of America that descended from
I have been to Israel numerous times and most Jews there are white.

sound like you stayed near tourist areas. Perhaps you should look into the history of Israel and find out who is currently inhabiting it. Or do you really think that EVERYONE in the area were dark skinned except Jews?

 

[CMike]

I think you should review your history. Someone else pointed out

[to show that man shapes god in his image, not the other way around.


If you've ever been to Israel, you'd know that the people of the area, be it Muslim, Jewish, or otherwise, are all darker skinned, not the pale caucasian of America that descended from
I have been to Israel numerous times and most Jews there are white.

sound like you stayed near tourist areas. Perhaps you should look into the history of Israel and find out who is currently inhabiting it. Or do you really think that EVERYONE in the area were dark skinned except Jews?

A good chunk of my family are in Israel.

Most jews in Isarel are white. Some are from Ethopia and are black.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

and yet you're in America. many jews in Israel came from America and other Caucasian-predominant countries. did you review your history yet? you see there are a number of expulsions and migrations. Originally though, the entire area was comprised of dark skinned people. I had thought this was a well known fact.

 

[CMike]

and yet you're in America. many jews in Israel came from America and other Caucasian-predominant countries. did you review your history yet? you see there are a number of expulsions and migrations. Originally though, the entire area was comprised of dark skinned people. I had thought this was a well known fact.

Originally, at thet time that Aaron brought the jews to Israel, I wasn't around, so I really have no clue what color the people were.

Many jews in Israel today came from Europe. My father came from Russia to escape the nazis.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I must remind you of one simple fact...

the bible is NOT the 'word of GOD'!

It is words written by humans just like every other book i.e. "GOD" does NOT write books

Excuse me, but how do you figure YOU can speak definitively to what God does and does not do? You talk to Him on the phone recently or something?

I DO hope you're not going to give us that pedantic, childish argument about "it was a human holding the pen, so it was a human who wrote it", because any secretary can happily tell you about the practice of dictation and trascription.

We can easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were all written by HUMAN HANDS...

We can NOT easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were transcribed from "GOD" via ESPN

some people choose to have 'faith' that any one or all are the actual words of "GOD"
"GOD" gave us everything in the universe so since "GOD" gave us humans then sure one could make the indirect argument that a book was 'from GOD' but that argument would also mean that ALL BOOKS ARE FROM "GOD" bc all books are written by HUMANS! But of course, the religious extremists don't want to hear that simple fact. Rather than believe in the reality before them that the books they follow were written by HUMANS who made mistakes just like all humans do they'd rather believe every single word is the 'perfect word from GOD'.....well that is a nice Utopian fantasy...just like Santa Claus!

Oh, so you ARE going to give us that childish argument. I guess I was just too optimistic to expect anything intelligent, mature, or informed from you. My mistake.

Go tell a secretary how she's REALLY the author of all the letters her boss dictates. See how fast she starts laughing at you, fucktard. And please don't waste any more time deluding yourself that anyone is interested in hearing your ignorant opinions about their religious beliefs. They wouldn't have been even if you WEREN'T a drooling moron.

 

[BenMarbleMD]

She wasn't questioning whether it was written by human hands. We all know that it was.

Thanks for proving my point bc everyone knows ALL humans make mistakes!

She was questioning your assertion that it is not the Word of God.

transcription requires a PRE-WRITTEN SCRIPT....
none of the authors of the Talmud, bible, or Quran had a pre-written script thus they were NOT 'transcribing Gods Word'...
They were using their own BRAINS to write down what they wanted NOT what "GOD" wanted

(Disclaimer: Almost nobody believes everything included in the Old and New Testaments were dictated/inspired of God.

Well obviously you aren't a Christiand and apparently you don't know any Southern Baptists!

 

[BenMarbleMD]

Excuse me, but how do you figure YOU can speak definitively to what God does and does not do? You talk to Him on the phone recently or something?

I DO hope you're not going to give us that pedantic, childish argument about "it was a human holding the pen, so it was a human who wrote it", because any secretary can happily tell you about the practice of dictation and trascription.

We can easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were all written by HUMAN HANDS...

We can NOT easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were transcribed from "GOD" via ESPN

some people choose to have 'faith' that any one or all are the actual words of "GOD"
"GOD" gave us everything in the universe so since "GOD" gave us humans then sure one could make the indirect argument that a book was 'from GOD' but that argument would also mean that ALL BOOKS ARE FROM "GOD" bc all books are written by HUMANS! But of course, the religious extremists don't want to hear that simple fact. Rather than believe in the reality before them that the books they follow were written by HUMANS who made mistakes just like all humans do they'd rather believe every single word is the 'perfect word from GOD'.....well that is a nice Utopian fantasy...just like Santa Claus!

Oh, so you ARE going to give us that childish argument. I guess I was just too optimistic to expect anything intelligent, mature, or informed from you. My mistake.

Go tell a secretary how she's REALLY the author of all the letters her boss dictates. See how fast she starts laughing at you, fucktard. And please don't waste any more time deluding yourself that anyone is interested in hearing your ignorant opinions about their religious beliefs. They wouldn't have been even if you WEREN'T a drooling moron.

hate to tell u FUKTARD but they didn't have DICTAPHONES back when the Talmud, Bible, Quran were written so your analogy to compare how those books were written to modern dictation is just fucking DUM~

 

[Foxfyre]

We can easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were all written by HUMAN HANDS...

We can NOT easily prove that The Talmud, Quran, & bible were transcribed from "GOD" via ESPN

some people choose to have 'faith' that any one or all are the actual words of "GOD"
"GOD" gave us everything in the universe so since "GOD" gave us humans then sure one could make the indirect argument that a book was 'from GOD' but that argument would also mean that ALL BOOKS ARE FROM "GOD" bc all books are written by HUMANS! But of course, the religious extremists don't want to hear that simple fact. Rather than believe in the reality before them that the books they follow were written by HUMANS who made mistakes just like all humans do they'd rather believe every single word is the 'perfect word from GOD'.....well that is a nice Utopian fantasy...just like Santa Claus!

Oh, so you ARE going to give us that childish argument. I guess I was just too optimistic to expect anything intelligent, mature, or informed from you. My mistake.

Go tell a secretary how she's REALLY the author of all the letters her boss dictates. See how fast she starts laughing at you, fucktard. And please don't waste any more time deluding yourself that anyone is interested in hearing your ignorant opinions about their religious beliefs. They wouldn't have been even if you WEREN'T a drooling moron.

hate to tell u FUKTARD but they didn't have DICTAPHONES back when the Talmud, Bible, Quran were written so your analogy to compare how those books were written to modern dictation is just fucking DUM~

I could take shorthand at 150 wpm before dictaphones were in wide use--maybe before there even WERE dictaphones, I don't know for sure. And don't disrespect the oral tradition of the ancient ones. It was an art form as the stories and teachings were told and retold, with great attention to detail and accuracy, as they were handed down from one generation to the next. Those of us who grew up memorizing scripture, memorizing poetry, memorizing great passages from other literary works, perhaps better understand first hand how oral tradition was a reliable and practical thing.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.......if one was to actually bother to check, the Torah (first 5 books of the OT), was actually given to Moshe (Moses) when he went up on Mt. Sinai to visit with God for 40 days and nights. When Moshe came back down, his hair was white and he had the look of having been gone much longer than just a month and a half.

The rest of the OT is the written history of the Jews, along with what happened when they did follow what God told them to (read the story of Jericho), as well as what happened to them when they didn't follow what God told them to (read about the Israelites defeat by the people of Ai the first time).

As far as the NT? Well, many things have been heavily edited by the Niecine council (many books were thrown out, and many others were edited because they had forbidden knowledge).

Nope, only the first 5 books of the Bible are the ones written by God.

 

[BenMarbleMD]

Oh, so you ARE going to give us that childish argument. I guess I was just too optimistic to expect anything intelligent, mature, or informed from you. My mistake.

Go tell a secretary how she's REALLY the author of all the letters her boss dictates. See how fast she starts laughing at you, fucktard. And please don't waste any more time deluding yourself that anyone is interested in hearing your ignorant opinions about their religious beliefs. They wouldn't have been even if you WEREN'T a drooling moron.

hate to tell u FUKTARD but they didn't have DICTAPHONES back when the Talmud, Bible, Quran were written so your analogy to compare how those books were written to modern dictation is just fucking DUM~

I could take shorthand at 150 wpm before dictaphones were in wide use--maybe before there even WERE dictaphones, I don't know for sure. And don't disrespect the oral tradition of the ancient ones. It was an art form as the stories and teachings were told and retold, with great attention to detail and accuracy, as they were handed down from one generation to the next. Those of us who grew up memorizing scripture, memorizing poetry, memorizing great passages from other literary works, perhaps better understand first hand how oral tradition was a reliable and practical thing.

ok yeah and I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you.
you are evading the real issue on purpose...
even if we assume the oral passing down over the generations is 100% accurate (which is highly doubtfull) that still misses the main point ie. where did the ORIGINAL story come from? You and others may CLAIM it was from 'GOD' (hell I can find 10 people right now on google in under 60 seconds that all claim "GOD" is talking through them so just bc someone CLAIMS that does NOT mean DICK!) but I know the ORIGINAL story was written with human hands and a human brain in control of the pen!
Now sit down and shut the fuck up! i.e. YOU LOSE~

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Originally, at thet time that Aaron brought the jews to Israel, I wasn't around, so I really have no clue what color the people were.

Many jews in Israel today came from Europe. My father came from Russia to escape the nazis.

OK fair enough, but the original point was regarding the skin color of Jesus, which clearly did not have European origins. He was dark skinned.

I could take shorthand at 150 wpm before dictaphones were in wide use--maybe before there even WERE dictaphones, I don't know for sure. And don't disrespect the oral tradition of the ancient ones. It was an art form as the stories and teachings were told and retold, with great attention to detail and accuracy, as they were handed down from one generation to the next. Those of us who grew up memorizing scripture, memorizing poetry, memorizing great passages from other literary works, perhaps better understand first hand how oral tradition was a reliable and practical thing.

Likening a game of telephone over generations to memorizing poetry is a poor comparison. If you had to pass on your previously memorized poetry to another generation, chances are you may even get the main points, but lose a few words along the way. That's how the game of telephone works. Note however that you learned to memorize your poetry FROM THE SAME ORIGINAL SOURCE as everyone else. Quite different.

 

[shintao]

The pictures of him are people who drew depictions of him from the local population. In Norway he looks Norwegian, in Italy he looks italian.

The guy is 2010 years dead and buried. There is not a lot of data on his appearance.

Hair might have been red or brown, we don't know. David, who was a relative, had red hair.

Since he had a job that required lots of physical exertion, he must have been eye candy for the women. He was, after all, a god.

That would make David an Ice lander wouldn't it? Where does it say in the Bible what jesus looked like?

 

[shintao]

Originally, at thet time that Aaron brought the jews to Israel, I wasn't around, so I really have no clue what color the people were.

Many jews in Israel today came from Europe. My father came from Russia to escape the nazis.

OK fair enough, but the original point was regarding the skin color of Jesus, which clearly did not have European origins. He was dark skinned.

I could take shorthand at 150 wpm before dictaphones were in wide use--maybe before there even WERE dictaphones, I don't know for sure. And don't disrespect the oral tradition of the ancient ones. It was an art form as the stories and teachings were told and retold, with great attention to detail and accuracy, as they were handed down from one generation to the next. Those of us who grew up memorizing scripture, memorizing poetry, memorizing great passages from other literary works, perhaps better understand first hand how oral tradition was a reliable and practical thing.

Likening a game of telephone over generations to memorizing poetry is a poor comparison. If you had to pass on your previously memorized poetry to another generation, chances are you may even get the main points, but lose a few words along the way. That's how the game of telephone works. Note however that you learned to memorize your poetry FROM THE SAME ORIGINAL SOURCE as everyone else. Quite different.

Didn't the Egyptians have a painting of jesus? He was black?

 

[Wingsofwind]

Sure he WAS Jewish but he abandoned Judaism throwing away the old covenant aka old testament to make a new covenant (which became the new testament)...
Basically this is where "Christianity" TOTALLY FUCKED UP i.e. 'real' Christianity should be NEW TESTATMENT only bc Jesus threw the old out with the bathwater! Instead the bible has both old and new which are absolutely contradictory of each other thus making modern Christianity SCHIZO as can be....thanks so much to the Catholic Church for fucking up what Jesus wanted.....In fact, I'd bet if Jesus were alive today and he went to the Vatican he would treat it exactly like the temple he vandalized!

Jesus didn't 'throw out' the OT, he simply fulfilled the Law...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Though He was born as a 'Jew', the Jewish religion was based more on customs of which Jesus did not agree with. Jesus was/is the Word, He is what truth is based on. He himself is not of any 'religion'. Religion is a belief system, Jesus does not need to 'believe' in anything, He KNOWS truth because He IS the truth.

That's rather rediculous.

You can fulfill the law since amost all the laws are perpetual.

How do you fulfill do not murder?

How do you fulfill do not worship other gods?

The laws are perpetual.

Also Jesus has no power to change or "fulfill" any jewish law.

Deut 4

2. Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Jesus was able to fulfill the Law because He IS the Law. He also didn't add anything to the Word because He IS the Word.

No man but Jesus is able to keep or execute the Law, all have fallen short. Jesus is the only one that was ever able to fulfill the Law in it's entirety because He is the Law. Just because the Laws are perpetual don't mean that someone can abide by all of them without falling short somewhere, that is part of why Jesus came. One way the word plēroō was used in that time was to 'satisfy' something. In this case Jesus came to 'satisfy' the Law.

Also just because a law is perpetual don't mean that the understanding of the law is. Jesus also helped to explain some of the laws. He explained the true meaning of what some of the laws ment. This would be considered 'fully preaching' the Law, of which is another way they used the word plēroō in that time.


Fulfil:

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

 

[Foxfyre]

This morning I was studying faces of the Egyptians still celebrating this morning after their mostly bloodless military coup. There were a few dark faces in the crowd, but otherwise the people could have been Italian, Greek, Spanish--almost any Mediterranean people or they would have blended into a Mexican or most South American crowds. I didn't see any blue eyed blonds but some were almost fair skinned.

I like to think of Jesus as being that kind of non specific, racially ambiguous person. And again, peoples of all races all over the world generally adopt him as one of their own and often depict him as someone who looks like them. I think he probably likes that.

 

[Ropey]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNwmbtAGnls"]Jesus - He's my friend. [/ame]

 

[Ropey]

Eye for an eye means compensating with money.

I believe that it means a return of righteous compensation rather than with vengeance.

[Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Leviticus 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
18 And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast.
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him;
20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
21 And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Then one can find the many interpretations which give credence to degree of compensation and yes, money can be a portion of a compensation, but the main tenet is to return in a compensatory method, rather than a vengeful method.

For "Vengence is Mine" saith the Lord.