Why have a standing Army Policy?

[teapartysamurai]

I think the best military policy for America right now is to bring all of our US troops home, and cut the Military budget by about 95%, just enough to keep the lights on and maintain equipment. The military represents over 50% of the budget (50-54%).

Then start depending on volunteer militia and National Guard from the states for any in country defense, and forget any outside country which is the jurisdiction of the UN.

Okay, I don't believe you are this stupid.

You libs say I troll? There is no way you could be THIS delusional that your scenario is even possible.

I think you are just being provocative to get conservatives upset.

Because if you are serious, there is no need to even bother debating you and no one should even waste their time.

You just are too far gone into unreality to even bother.

Yes, I can see this debate is over your head, and beyond your comprehension to intelligently respond, or see the logic behind the debate. People like you would be better to keep their mouth shut and just toodle down to the big ass category and talk about that great big pimple you have on your rearend.

In other words, I'm right, you ARE trolling. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gone straight into sputtering and attack.

But I nailed down your BS, and you had no way to refute.

Guy's he's pulling your chain, just to get pro-military people to lose their tempers and say things he can use against them. Don't fall for it.

Anyone stupid enough to actually believe what he claims, isn't worth your time. Just shake your head at someone like this, laugh and walk away.

 

[daveman]

Further Dave doesn't read or comprehend, and is just a babbling idiot with his carny partner Tits. LOL! Should have read page 10 Dave. You are not keeping up.......

The pack of you fuckers are dumber than a sack of rocks. Poor Dave was lying his ass off through the full thread while Tits licked his ass, two Losers for sure. And GAO assures us Dav is a liar and talking out his tits-cleaned asshole.


"significant deficiencies in National Guard roundout brigades' capability during their post-mobilization training, and the brigades remained in a training status until the war was over."
(p.2.,http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/146560.pdf)

"these problems are a reflection of the complexity of theskills required of large, ground combat maneuver units and a peacetime training system that simply has not worked."
(p.2.,http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/146560.pdf)

"they may have missions requiring their commitment to a war effort after completing only a few months of post-mobilization training."
(p.2.,http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/146560.pdf)


"we found that (1) peacetime training did not adequately prepare the brigades for their wartime roles, (2) the Army's readiness information greatly underestimated the amount of postmobilization training that would be needed to ready the brigades to deploy, and (3) adverse impacts resulted from the incompatibility of the National Guard's peacetime systems with those of the active Army."
(p.2.,http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/146560.pdf)


"Field training was lacking and as a result doctors and nurses were not familiar with their unit's mission or equipment."
(p.3., http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat7/145817.pdf)

"An Army "lessons learned" report stated that 1,600 medical officershad not taken the officers' basic course and, therefore, were initially non-deployable."
(p.6., http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat7/145817.pdf)

Well, that's a pretty spectacular fail. When criticized for posting a blog entry that's 8 years old, you post government reports that are 18 years old.

What's next, after-action reports from the Civil War?

 

[DiamondDave]

I think the best military policy for America right now is to bring all of our US troops home, and cut the Military budget by about 95%, just enough to keep the lights on and maintain equipment. The military represents over 50% of the budget (50-54%).

Then start depending on volunteer militia and National Guard from the states for any in country defense, and forget any outside country which is the jurisdiction of the UN.

Just when I thought you could not get any more ignorant... you take it to a whole new level

Well, fuck you in your ass if that makes you feel better, you lil cocksucker.

I'm sure that is what you dream about....

 

[Trajan]

Bring back the draft and cut enlisted men's pay by about 50% would solve alot of our problems.

The draft would be a good thing to have, as other countries have. After high school, have students do two years of community works where they will learn morals, ethics, work & self-esteem and become attached to their community.

uhmm what? so the gov. via some communiyt servcie prgm. will teahc my kids morals and boost their self esteem? hey what could go wrong? you into turn your kids into nihilistic gov. drones, I'll pass thank you.

Those that score high in this program would be given the choice of going onto college of being enlisted in the military. Those who did poorly would be sent onto training, job placement & apprenticeship.

why thank you comrade...can I open my own bus. if I wanted too?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Wow.. so now it is the government's role to teach morals?

Hillarious... absolutely hilarious. They can't even teach basic math. In what nether regions of reality are these asshats residing?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I've seen the morals of the progressives... it usually involves parting with your property, individualism and self-reliance in favor of some nanny-state collectivist poppycock.

 

[High_Gravity]

Shintao is right, who needs a Military anyways? lets disband the Military, convert everyone to Islam and bring over Hamas and Hezbollah to run security for us. Their more proficient anyways.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

.

.....................
Another part of this problem is most of the money is not spent in the United States, it goes to foreign corporations like Haliburton who deposit in Saudi Arabia banks, so their bankers can loan to Arab sheiks to build islands to stick houses on. When a welfare mama spends, it goes to a US store for food, etc., it circulates in the economy when the store uses the money to buy food, or goes into the bank so you can borrow it to build that pool in your back yard that put workers on the job. See the difference? Same when we hand out foreign aid, or corporate aid, etc. Corporations for instance run advertising in foreign countries at your expense, using foreigners, and not a dime is spent here. So that is why social programs for our own people is not as big a hit on us, and the money stays here. Take Obama stimulus that hires a worker for $20. an hour. He pays back in $7., so he actually only cost us $13. dollars. The overseas worker pays no US taxes, he pays Afghan taxes which doesn't stimulate anything at home.

This is the core reason, if we are going to make budget cuts, make it to items that are not benefitting the American people.

* Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html & http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/budget/defense.pdf & Federal Budget Spending and the National Debt
** Source: DoD 101 An Introductory Overview of the Department of Defense - U.S. Department of Defense Official Website

#1: Hi Cain. The 2009 figure was prepared by the University of Berkeley, as well as the graph shown here.

#2: "Military embraces all it's spending, so homeland security, cia/fbi, VA & disabled & retirements, etc. If you are using that argument, it is insane. Murdering humans to save jobs? LMAO!!! sorry....."

#3: If we were the target, we would have already been hit. IMO. It takes more than a thought to justify 54% of the budget. And I left the militia & National Guard activated, so allowed -10% credit, and saying at 90% cut and more if possible. Further, the US has been cutting bases and military since George Bush Sr.. There is no way anyone could attack us by a major force, other than nuke, and they have that option now.

#4: Guess you didn't understand that US Troops means US Troops on US Soil. Let the UN do their job, and stop playing policeman at great expense of tax payers & US Troops. Just stand on the side line, keep your nose out of others affairs, and yell Go Man Go! Whenever you see the military budget for a given year, know tht the figure only represents about 1/3 or so of what is needed. They are always back at the trough in 3-4 months for more, just milking away.

To #1: Hmm, I am seeing other graphs shown that show differently, what exactly is the big X for? Also, do you have a graph for the 2010 budget?

To #2: No offense, but that isn't the mission of the US Military. Their mission is to protect and defend the Constutition. I had to take that oath, and I believe it, yes their is corruption, but that is life and its everywhere. I do not see how murdering people can create more jobs, war can create jobs, conflicts can, but the murder rate I do not see how that relates. I could see how a large war could cause a draft, which would create jobs, but not plain murder.

To #3: I am afraid to say I bet the US Government thought the same thing pre-ww2. Then the Japanese surprise attacked Pearl Harbor. We are a target, that is a fact of the world. 9/11 wasn't random, it was a target. Same for other terrorist attacks, and if those same people had the military backing, they would have been much larger scale I would think.

To #4: I am not arguing that the budget is a large sum to the DoD, but you do realize, if we leave NATO or the UN, that we would lose relationships within it, and also probably the credibility of many other nations? Also, you cannot just "pull" out troops, it takes planning, their are US Troops everywhere, I mean the Air Force alone has 13 bases outside of the US. Let's say that it's just 10,000 Airman per base, not counting civilian contractors, etc, that is 130,000 people to bring back to the US and then, if the 90% cut is done, laid off. That isn't counting the civilian employees laid off, which the US employees quite a amount of, even for security at bases.

The US Military does benefit the American people though. It sure benefits me. I get to do a job I have always wanted, I get my college paid for, and I have a career path set for the next 20 or more years. It does that for many others, gives them the ability to go to college, learn respect and discipline, to become better human beings.

#5.I understand the budget cut, to a extent. 90% sounds radical, I could see 10-25%, if that, but 90% would be basically laying off the largest employer in the US and making unemployment now look like a joke compared to then. I am not claiming to know everything, but laying off that many people, all of whom have signed contracts, sounds rough & a bad idea.

Also, it isn't easy to get in the military either. I had to go to MEPS and if you even whispered the word "hospital" or "injury" you where automatically sent to a doctor who would quiz you for no joke, at least a hour, on everything wrong ever happened to you. MEPS culls out a lot of people. I went to MEPS in Memphis, Tennessee, out of 105, 31 people where kicked out at MEPS alone. That isn't counting the drop-outs from the DEP, and the one's who fail Basic.

Please if you reply to my posts, don't quote over quote, it makes it impossible to quote yours on my quote button, I do not know why, rather strange. Thanks.

1.I suppose it is just more of the defense items, as you will see in several of these graphs and in the quote stating the military spends over 1/2 the budget.

Current Military
$965 billion:
• Military Personnel $129 billion
• Operation & Maint. $241 billion
• Procurement $143 billion
• Research & Dev. $79 billion
• Construction $15 billion
• Family Housing $3 billion
• DoD misc. $4 billion
• Retired Pay $70 billion
• DoE nuclear weapons $17 billion
• NASA (50%) $9 billion
• International Security $9 billion
• Homeland Secur. (military) $35 billion
• State Dept. (partial) $6 billion
• other military (non-DoD) $5 billion
• “Global War on Terror” $200 billion [We added $162 billion to the last item to supplement the Budget’s grossly underestimated $38 billion in “allowances” to be spent in 2009 for the “War on Terror,” which includes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan]

Past Military,
$484 billion:
• Veterans’ Benefits $94 billion
• Interest on national debt (80%) created by military spending, $390 billion

Linked. The Military Receives 54% of the US Federal Budget


"The US Federal Budget for 2010 was released today, February 26,2009. This article focuses primarily on the discretionary spending. Of the discretionary budget, roughly half of spending goes to the US Department of Defense with the remaining money divided among 22 other departments."

2.I agree with you. The other guy was trying to say it is the national interest, so that he can argue a right to murder troops in the ME where we don't belong. It doesn't create jobs here, per say. It creates jobs in the ME for thousands of contractors. IF troops are dying outside of America, you can bet they are dying for corporations. It is just that clear and simple. I call it murder.

3.When you stop playing policeman and mind your own business, people will leave you alone. All countries are a target, but not for any large scale war that would require US Troops. You can deal with terrorists just like Clinton said, with the FBI. People can spend their lives in unwarranted paranoia, and spend all their money one to point the American are spending there way in debt, and we are the biggest debtor nation on the globe. Time to start thinking a new way, and enjoying life instead of death.

4.I don't argue to leave NATO or the UN. I argue to reduce our US troops to a 90% budget. So make the choice to reduce the budget & plan to leave for American soil. We can put them to work on several socialist plans I have lined up for them to benefit America and restart the economy. Let the civilians get a non-military job.You should be getting a free education and a clear career path, and that doesn't mean we need a military. Want power, go to work for the police department or a prison.

#5.It won't sound radical when your pocket is jingling with your own money again. We can bring them home and put them to work on socialist projects. Build a grand canal and fortified wall on our southern border, round up the illegals & deport them, build 300 nuclear & desaltination plants on our three coast lines, build a glass highway, build water ways across the most barren lands of America and start farm lands and citys. The military would make a good work crew for that, and later deploy them to guard the Southern wall and three beach heads of America.

Not sure why you are telling me about how hard it is to get in the military. When they want people, they let anyone in. ie. nam

What is it that you wingnuts fail to comprehend? It is the job of the Federal government to maintain the military that is a mandate of the Constitution. It is not the Federals Governments job to handle social welfare, that would be the job of each individual state.

 

[High_Gravity]

I say we make everyone convert to Islam when they graduate high school and if they don't we behead them.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I say we make everyone convert to Islam when they graduate high school and if they don't we behead them.

First thing that would have to happen is that the First Amendment would have to be repealed. Then you would have to confinscate every gun from every gunn owner and police officer. I forsee a big failuer in that, don't you?

 

[High_Gravity]

I say we make everyone convert to Islam when they graduate high school and if they don't we behead them.

First thing that would have to happen is that the First Amendment would have to be repealed. Then you would have to confinscate every gun from every gunn owner and police officer. I forsee a big failuer in that, don't you?

The constitution and all these "rights" need to be revoked, they are incompatible with the Shariah laws.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I say we make everyone convert to Islam when they graduate high school and if they don't we behead them.

First thing that would have to happen is that the First Amendment would have to be repealed. Then you would have to confinscate every gun from every gunn owner and police officer. I forsee a big failuer in that, don't you?

The constitution and all these "rights" need to be revoked, they are incompatible with the Shariah laws.

Why don't you find a politican who will run for election on that platfrom. As a matter of fact why don't you run for congress?

 

[High_Gravity]

First thing that would have to happen is that the First Amendment would have to be repealed. Then you would have to confinscate every gun from every gunn owner and police officer. I forsee a big failuer in that, don't you?

The constitution and all these "rights" need to be revoked, they are incompatible with the Shariah laws.

Why don't you find a politican who will run for election on that platfrom. As a matter of fact why don't you run for congress?

It doesn't matter who runs for congress or whatever, Shariah is on its way. Once the US allows Shariah courts into their system it will spread throughout the country and engulf it in the warm grasp of Islam.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The constitution and all these "rights" need to be revoked, they are incompatible with the Shariah laws.

Why don't you find a politican who will run for election on that platfrom. As a matter of fact why don't you run for congress?

It doesn't matter who runs for congress or whatever, Shariah is on its way. Once the US allows Shariah courts into their system it will spread throughout the country and engulf it in the warm grasp of Islam.

Plenty of dead muslims to go around if that happens.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why don't you find a politican who will run for election on that platfrom. As a matter of fact why don't you run for congress?

It doesn't matter who runs for congress or whatever, Shariah is on its way. Once the US allows Shariah courts into their system it will spread throughout the country and engulf it in the warm grasp of Islam.

Plenty of dead muslims to go around if that happens.

Yeah right.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It doesn't matter who runs for congress or whatever, Shariah is on its way. Once the US allows Shariah courts into their system it will spread throughout the country and engulf it in the warm grasp of Islam.

Plenty of dead muslims to go around if that happens.

Yeah right.

As would be your opinion. it ain't going to happen.

 

[Sallow]

What is it that you wingnuts fail to comprehend? It is the job of the Federal government to maintain the military that is a mandate of the Constitution. It is not the Federals Governments job to handle social welfare, that would be the job of each individual state.

Why don't you try actually reading the Constitution every once in a while..

This is the part that covers welfare (and defense)..

Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

This is specific to the military.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Section 1 - The President

Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In a nutshell.

-The navy is permanent.
-The army is is not. It is meant to be drawn from the militia in times of invasion or insurrection..and funding must be voted on every 2 years by congress.
-Congress is the only body that can declare war.
-The military is under and inferior to civilian control.
-The President is commander in chief.

Constitutionally the military is:
Defensive
Made up of part time citizen soldiers (Which is where the right to bear arms is derived from)
Under civilian control.

What we have now is not Constitutional.

 

[shintao]

Okay, I don't believe you are this stupid.

You libs say I troll? There is no way you could be THIS delusional that your scenario is even possible.

I think you are just being provocative to get conservatives upset.

Because if you are serious, there is no need to even bother debating you and no one should even waste their time.

You just are too far gone into unreality to even bother.

Yes, I can see this debate is over your head, and beyond your comprehension to intelligently respond, or see the logic behind the debate. People like you would be better to keep their mouth shut and just toodle down to the big ass category and talk about that great big pimple you have on your rearend.

In other words, I'm right, you ARE trolling. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gone straight into sputtering and attack.

But I nailed down your BS, and you had no way to refute.

Guy's he's pulling your chain, just to get pro-military people to lose their tempers and say things he can use against them. Don't fall for it.

Anyone stupid enough to actually believe what he claims, isn't worth your time. Just shake your head at someone like this, laugh and walk away.

I think you have the trolling backwards, and have donated noting to the debate, A FIRST CLUE OF A TROLL!!! LOL!! No one is buying your shit, so go wipe your ass somewhere else.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What is it that you wingnuts fail to comprehend? It is the job of the Federal government to maintain the military that is a mandate of the Constitution. It is not the Federals Governments job to handle social welfare, that would be the job of each individual state.

Why don't you try actually reading the Constitution every once in a while..

This is the part that covers welfare (and defense)..

Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

This is specific to the military.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Section 1 - The President

Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In a nutshell.

-The navy is permanent.
-The army is is not. It is meant to be drawn from the militia in times of invasion or insurrection..and funding must be voted on every 2 years by congress.
-Congress is the only body that can declare war.
-The military is under and inferior to civilian control.
-The President is commander in chief.

Constitutionally the military is:
Defensive
Made up of part time citizen soldiers (Which is where the right to bear arms is derived from)
Under civilian control.

What we have now is not Constitutional.

What is this?

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Someone had to be a full time officer to train the militia.

And the welfare part is not to maintain peoples livelyhood.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why don't you try actually reading the Constitution every once in a while..
This is the part that covers welfare (and defense)..

You did a great job of quoting the powers of Congress that cover defense.
Where are the powers that cover welfare?

In a nutshell.
-The navy is permanent.
-The army is is not. It is meant to be drawn from the militia in times of invasion or insurrection..and funding must be voted on every 2 years by congress.

Um... no.
The standing army is meant to be seperate from the militia. The Militia is there to, when necessary and among other things, supplement the standing army.

-Congress is the only body that can declare war.
-The military is under and inferior to civilian control.
-The President is commander in chief.

Yes.
However, there are no constitutional limitations to the powers of the CinC.

Constitutionally the military is:
Defensive

Not at all necessarily so. Nothing in the Constitution precludes an 'offensive' military.

Made up of part time citizen soldiers (Which is where the right to bear arms is derived from)

Again, no.

What we have now is not Constitutional.

What part of what we have now, specifically, violates what part of the Constitution, specifically?