Why do we continue to pretend there is an untapped black talent pool?

[IanC]

IQ testing may not encompass all the traits that people consider to be 'intelligence' but it does a good job of picking out those that are capable of learning and making good decisions. Typically the top 1/6 of our population (IQ115+) make up the bulk of professional occupations. But only 2% of blacks score that high. Is it any wonder that top schools struggle to find qualified blacks to fill medical, law and engineering positions? They have to dip much further into the black cohort to reach acceptable numbers of students and it shows in black performance and graduation rates. If blacks had to have the same qualifications as whites and asians then a single school like MIT would use up virtually all of the high scoring black candidates. Instead elite schools take best that they can find, leaving 2nd tier schools with 3rd or 4th tier black students, and so on. Many or most black students find themselves in a school where their qualifications are at the bottom and their performance and graduation rate reflect that.
This same scenerio is played out in many AA dominated jobs. AA gets blacks a job but their poor qualifications make it difficult to promote them or put them in positions of responsibility. Of course the blacks who truly were qualified find it difficult to escape the taint of low expectations given to other blacks.
This scarcity of talent problem is the main reason why Africa is such a mess. With only a tiny portion of the sub-saharan population scoring as high as IQ100, there are few to fill professional and executive positions and jobs that are filled with IQ100 personnel here (like teachers, military officers, police) are filled with incompetents in Africa.

 

[Neser Boha]

IQ testing may not encompass all the traits that people consider to be 'intelligence' but it does a good job of picking out those that are capable of learning and making good decisions. Typically the top 1/6 of our population (IQ115+) make up the bulk of professional occupations. But only 2% of blacks score that high. Is it any wonder that top schools struggle to find qualified blacks to fill medical, law and engineering positions? They have to dip much further into the black cohort to reach acceptable numbers of students and it shows in black performance and graduation rates. If blacks had to have the same qualifications as whites and asians then a single school like MIT would use up virtually all of the high scoring black candidates. Instead elite schools take best that they can find, leaving 2nd tier schools with 3rd or 4th tier black students, and so on. Many or most black students find themselves in a school where their qualifications are at the bottom and their performance and graduation rate reflect that.
This same scenerio is played out in many AA dominated jobs. AA gets blacks a job but their poor qualifications make it difficult to promote them or put them in positions of responsibility. Of course the blacks who truly were qualified find it difficult to escape the taint of low expectations given to other blacks.
This scarcity of talent problem is the main reason why Africa is such a mess. With only a tiny portion of the sub-saharan population scoring as high as IQ100, there are few to fill professional and executive positions and jobs that are filled with IQ100 personnel here (like teachers, military officers, police) are filled with incompetents in Africa.

What a crock of shit.

Besides that, you're completely lacking links and quotes from respected sources supporting your ridiculous claims.

There have always been problems with IQ testing and no person with brain will base their judgment of a person's intelligence/capability to learn on an IQ test. IQ tests are designed by Western Europeans for Western Europeans. There is no account for a person's cultural, educational, language background in these tests.

It is therefore logical that when you subject African population to Western European IQ test, they will score lower than an average Western European would. If you can't see logic in that, you yourself are probably mildly retarded.

Besides that, you sound like yet another individual overcome with blind hatred of groups of people other than your own.

 

[IanC]

It is therefore logical that when you subject African population to Western European IQ test, they will score lower than an average Western European would. If you can't see logic in that, you yourself are probably mildly retarded.

the tests are designed to predict the ability to learn and make good decisions. I concur with you that Africans show very little proclivity in those areas.

 

[The_Halfmoon]

indians score, on average, 84 on IQ tests

how many legitimately qualified indian engineers, doctors, mathematicians, etc. are there? a hell of a lot... for every 7-11 employee there is a highly skilled member of the labor force

clearly there is something wrong with population IQ tests

now, I think these things should be openly talked about, not scoffed. Same with race and athletics, this is an issue which is muffled because we have to pretend like we don't see what's in front of our eyes... now maybe this is an issue of environment, but I'm just talking about discussing this without sounding ignorant or racist.

 

[IanC]

indians score, on average, 84 on IQ tests

how many legitimately qualified indian engineers, doctors, mathematicians, etc. are there? a hell of a lot... for every 7-11 employee there is a highly skilled member of the labor force

clearly there is something wrong with population IQ tests

now, I think these things should be openly talked about, not scoffed. Same with race and athletics, this is an issue which is muffled because we have to pretend like we don't see what's in front of our eyes... now maybe this is an issue of environment, but I'm just talking about discussing this without sounding ignorant or racist.

reasonable concern. I live in an area with a large indocanadian population. there is definitely a mixture of talent. of course those that emmigrate are typically more open to western ways. and they have also have a billion people to choose from.
while it is interesting to think of the potentials of certain groups there is also the reality on the ground. it doesnt really matter if africans have borderline retarded IQ averages for genetic reasons or environmental reasons because it still means they are borderline retarded, and it shows. germany, japan and israel started from scratch after WWII because they had human capital. africa is still going downhill even though they sit on immense riches because they do not have human capital.

 

[Elutherian]

What the hell? I may not be directly from Africa, though my ancestory certainly is... and my IQ is 149. I'm a shit load smarter than most of the fucking hillbillys living in Kentucky, so fuck you.

 

[Neser Boha]

indians score, on average, 84 on IQ tests

how many legitimately qualified indian engineers, doctors, mathematicians, etc. are there? a hell of a lot... for every 7-11 employee there is a highly skilled member of the labor force

clearly there is something wrong with population IQ tests

now, I think these things should be openly talked about, not scoffed. Same with race and athletics, this is an issue which is muffled because we have to pretend like we don't see what's in front of our eyes... now maybe this is an issue of environment, but I'm just talking about discussing this without sounding ignorant or racist.

reasonable concern. I live in an area with a large indocanadian population. there is definitely a mixture of talent. of course those that emmigrate are typically more open to western ways. and they have also have a billion people to choose from.
while it is interesting to think of the potentials of certain groups there is also the reality on the ground. it doesnt really matter if africans have borderline retarded IQ averages for genetic reasons or environmental reasons because it still means they are borderline retarded, and it shows. germany, japan and israel started from scratch after WWII because they had human capital. africa is still going downhill even though they sit on immense riches because they do not have human capital.

Where are your sources? Where do you get all this bullshit from?

 

[Neser Boha]

It is therefore logical that when you subject African population to Western European IQ test, they will score lower than an average Western European would. If you can't see logic in that, you yourself are probably mildly retarded.

the tests are designed to predict the ability to learn and make good decisions. I concur with you that Africans show very little proclivity in those areas.

I did not say that their IQs are lower, I said that if Africans' results of Western European IQ tests were on average lower, it would make sense as those tests are crafted for Western Europeans.

 

[IanC]

What the hell? I may not be directly from Africa, though my ancestory certainly is... and my IQ is 149. I'm a shit load smarter than most of the fucking hillbillys living in Kentucky, so fuck you.

nothing I have ever said precludes you from being smart. your IQ for a black man is much rarer than it would be for most other races though.

 

[IanC]

It is therefore logical that when you subject African population to Western European IQ test, they will score lower than an average Western European would. If you can't see logic in that, you yourself are probably mildly retarded.

the tests are designed to predict the ability to learn and make good decisions. I concur with you that Africans show very little proclivity in those areas.

I did not say that their IQs are lower, I said that if Africans' results of Western European IQ tests were on average lower, it would make sense as those tests are crafted for Western Europeans.

I can't say for certain about african africans but for african americans IQ testing is just as predictive as for whites. if anything it seems to overpredict actually.

 

[Neser Boha]

the tests are designed to predict the ability to learn and make good decisions. I concur with you that Africans show very little proclivity in those areas.

I did not say that their IQs are lower, I said that if Africans' results of Western European IQ tests were on average lower, it would make sense as those tests are crafted for Western Europeans.

I can't say for certain about african africans but for african americans IQ testing is just as predictive as for whites. if anything it seems to overpredict actually.

I asked you twice already to provide sources of your idiotic claims. You failed to do so. You're just a racist prick.

 

[Elutherian]

What the hell? I may not be directly from Africa, though my ancestory certainly is... and my IQ is 149. I'm a shit load smarter than most of the fucking hillbillys living in Kentucky, so fuck you.

nothing I have ever said precludes you from being smart. your IQ for a black man is much rarer than it would be for most other races though.

Oh wow, that makes me feel so much better...

 

[José]

Originally posted by Neser Boha
There have always been problems with IQ testing and no person with brain will base their judgment of a person's intelligence/capability to learn on an IQ test. IQ tests are designed by Western Europeans for Western Europeans. There is no account for a person's cultural, educational, language background in these tests.

When caucasians are consistently outscored by Ashkhenazi Jews and Asians in IQ tests the data is trumpeted by the media to discredit white supremacism.

When caucasians consistently outscore blacks in the same tests it's because the tests were designed by whites for testing "white" IQ.

tsk, tsk, tsk...

You can't have your proverbial cake and eat it too, Neser.

 

[José]

Originally posted by IanC
it doesnt really matter if africans have borderline retarded IQ averages for genetic reasons or environmental reasons because it still means they are borderline retarded, and it shows. germany, japan and israel started from scratch after WWII because they had human capital. africa is still going downhill even though they sit on immense riches because they do not have human capital.

Excellent pointk, Ian!!

You joined the Board last month while I am one of the old timers.

I followed thousands of endless debates between Joyce and posters like MattSkrammer about the causes of Negroid's low IQ. I never really wanted to jump in because I always thought to myself:

"What a huge waste of time!!"

Whether blacks low IQ is determined by genetics or environment, nature or nurture, is immaterial, almost to the point of being totally irrelevant.

EVEN IF NEGROID'S LOW IQ IS DETERMINED BY THE ENVIRONMENT, after thousands of years living in Africa and 5 centuries in the Americas unable to develop anything more advanced than a society based on subsistence farming, it is totally unreasonable to expect that education and changes in their social environment will change this reality.

But here's the difference between me and white supremacists, on one side, and supporters of affirmative action, on the other:

I treat the issue of black's average IQ as an strictly scientific issue. I don't base any social policy on it.

 

[Neser Boha]

Originally posted by IanC
it doesnt really matter if africans have borderline retarded IQ averages for genetic reasons or environmental reasons because it still means they are borderline retarded, and it shows. germany, japan and israel started from scratch after WWII because they had human capital. africa is still going downhill even though they sit on immense riches because they do not have human capital.

Excellent pointk, Ian!!

You joined the Board last month while I am one of the old timers.

I followed thousands of endless debates between Joyce and posters like MattSkrammer about the causes of Negroid's low IQ. I never really wanted to jump in because I always thought to myself:

"What a huge waste of time!!"

Whether blacks low IQ is determined by genetics or environment, nature or nurture, is immaterial, almost to the point of being totally irrelevant.

EVEN IF NEGROID'S LOW IQ IS DETERMINED BY THE ENVIRONMENT, after thousands of years living in Africa and 5 centuries in the Americas unable to develop anything more advanced than a society based on subsistence farming, it is totally unreasonable to expect that education and changes in their social environment will change this reality.

But here's the difference between me and white supremacists, on one side, and supporters of affirmative action, on the other:

I treat the issue of black's average IQ as an strictly scientific issue. I don't base any social policy on it.

Care to share some scientific and respectable sources of what you're saying? Because your little buddy there didn't, even though I asked him for it two times. If you don't, you're as full of shit as he is and to me you're just another member of the Shortus Dickus cheer-leading squad to me.

 

[IanC]

Whether blacks low IQ is determined by genetics or environment, nature or nurture, is immaterial, almost to the point of being totally irrelevant.

EVEN IF NEGROID'S LOW IQ IS DETERMINED BY THE ENVIRONMENT, after thousands of years living in Africa and 5 centuries in the Americas unable to develop anything more advanced than a society based on subsistence farming, it is totally unreasonable to expect that education and changes in their social environment will change this reality.

But here's the difference between me and white supremacists, on one side, and supporters of affirmative action, on the other:

I treat the issue of black's average IQ as an strictly scientific issue. I don't base any social policy on it.

I came to this topic because of educational policies. It is a huge waste of time and resources to always be looking for racism as the reason for poor minority performance. Why not acknowledge that there are going to be disparities and give individual children what they need, instead of trying to accomplish the impossible by equalizing all racial outcomes.
And I still believe in affirmative action, but not the racial quotas that it so often devolves into. So I think social policy should take average black testing into account IF average black performance is being used to show unfair treatment to blacks.

 

[IanC]

Care to share some scientific and respectable sources of what you're saying? Because your little buddy there didn't, even though I asked him for it two times. If you don't, you're as full of shit as he is and to me you're just another member of the Shortus Dickus cheer-leading squad to me.

Where is your counter argument, buttressed with scientific surveys? haha, sorry but I only respond to ideas, not insults.

 

[Ringel05]

Why do we continue to pretend there is an untapped black talent pool?

IanC, Why do you continue to pretend you are relevent in any way shape or form?

 

[IanC]

Intelligence and job performance: Economic and social implications.By Hunter, John E.; Schmidt, Frank L.
Psychology, Public Policy, and Law. Vol 2(3-4), Sep-Dec 1996, 447-472.
Abstract
General mental ability (intelligence) is the dominant determinant of the large individual differences in work output on the job revealed by research, but highly visible individual differences in citizenship behavior on the job make the intelligence-performance relationship harder to observe in everyday life. Over time, the validity of job experience for predicting performance declines, while that of ability remains constant or increases. Path analyses indicate that the major reason ability predicts performance so well is that higher ability individuals learn relevant job knowledge more quickly and learn more of it. The current social policy that strongly discourages use of mental ability in hiring is counterproductive and has produced severe performance decrements. This policy should be changed to encourage the use of ability measures. However, it should also encourage the use of personality measures that increase overall predictive validity while simultaneously reducing differences in minority-majority hiring rates. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2009 APA, all rights reserved)

General Mental Ability in the World of Work: Occupational Attainment and Job Performance.By Schmidt, Frank L.; Hunter, John
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Vol 86(1), Jan 2004, 162-173.
Abstract
The psychological construct of general mental ability (GMA), introduced by C. Spearman (1904) nearly 100 years ago, has enjoyed a resurgence of interest and attention in recent decades. This article presents the research evidence that GMA predicts both occupational level attained and performance within one's chosen occupation and does so better than any other ability, trait, or disposition and better than job experience. The sizes of these relationships with GMA are also larger than most found in psychological research. Evidence is presented that weighted combinations of specific aptitudes tailored to individual jobs do not predict job performance better than GMA alone, disconfirming specific aptitude theory. A theory of job performance is described that explicates the central role of GMA in the world of work. These findings support Spearman's proposition that GMA is of critical importance in human affairs. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2009 APA, all rights reserved)

The Role of Pre-Market Factors in Black-White Wage Differences

Derek A. Neal
University of Chicago - Department of Economics; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)

William R. Johnson
University of Virginia


1995-05-01

NBER Working Paper No. W5124


Abstract:
Many attempts to measure the wage effects of current labor market discrimination against minorities include controls for worker productivity that (1) could themselves be affected by market discrimination and (2) are very imprecise measures of worker skill. The resulting estimates of residual wage gaps may be biased. Our approach is a parsimoniously specified wage equation which controls for skill with the score of a test administered as teenagers prepared to leave high school and embark on work careers or post-secondary education. Independent evidence shows that this test score is a racially unbiased measure of the skills and abilities these teenagers were about to bring to the labor market. We find that this one test score explains all of the black-white wage gap for young women and much of the gap for young men. For today's young adults, the black-white wage gap primarily reflects a skill gap, which in turn can be traced, at least in part, to observable differences in the family backgrounds and school environments of black and white children. While our results do provide some evidence of current labor market discrimination, skill gaps play such a large role that we believe future research should focus on the obstacles black children face in acquiring productive skills.

Neser- please read the section of the PDF that covers p.878-9 of the journal for reference to equal prediction of job ability by IQ for both blacks and whites (actually blacks slightly under perform their IQs)

 

[IanC]

let's look at the last link first. here is an html link Test "Title"
the study was performed to explore the reasons for black/white(and hispanic) wage gap.

Our approachis a parsimoniously specified wage equation that controls for skillwith the score of a test administered as teenagers prepared to leavehigh school and embark on work careers or postsecondary educa-tion. Independent evidence shows that this test score is a raciallyunbiased measure of the skills and abilities these teenagers wereabout to bring to the labor market. We find that this one test scoreexplains all of the black-white wage gap for young women and muchof the gap for young men. For today's young adults, the black-whitewage gap primarily reflects a skill gap

It then goes on to explain how the AFQT was shown to be a good predictor of work performance and also shown to be non racially biased. This study is also politically correct so any of you from the 'other side' don't have to worry about getting polluted by reading it. I would love to have a reasoned discussion about it actually.
The first two links are very similar, and show that job experience shows diminishing returns on job performanced while general mental ability shows increasing importance with respect to job performance.