Why do so many teachers leave the profession?

[LoneLaugher]

You think teachers teach 1 class, once a day?

where did I say that?

Algebra 2 hasn't changed in 100 years either so teaching that, algebra 1 and geometry shouldn't be too tough

You are right. I've done it, and it is easy.

Most teachers who make teaching hard, bring woe upon themselves. Once you can deal with Other Adults (Parents, other teachers, administrators) the largest problems are resolved.

If anyone wants to know the secret of dealing with this group, I'll summarize with one word: DOCUMENTATION.

Sadly, most teachers are teachers, because they were not the sharpest tools in the shed, and as a result do not possess nearly the mental capacity necessary to optimize a method to document practically every activity they plan to have, nor every activity they have performed. Often you will see these teachers ENFORCING THE RULES. They make up rules as they go along. LOTS of RULES. Then they wonder why everyone is confused by their RULES.

A classroom needs about 5 rules, max. They need to be Writ Large on each wall. They need to be simple, and consistantly enforced, with infractions simply documented on a form with four (4) lines 1. Pupil's Name 2. Date 3. Infraction 4. PHONE NUMBER (have the pupil give this).

Assuming the student gives you the correct number, you call it, and report the infraction to the parent, advising them of the discipline ladder which will require they eventually meet with you, or be inconvenienced to pick their kid up from school, or both.

Obviously, given the wrong number, you'll need to look it up, call, and add giving false information to the infraction.

The whole process takes less than a minute. During September, it happens with some frequency, but by October you have enough documentation to have the most frequent offenders removed from your class most days. Often an administrator will helpfully move the most undesireable student to another teacher's room, where their behavior will not be well documented, thus giving the administrator an excuse to ignore pleas for help.

In what world do you think the rest of us live?

 

[squeeze berry]

She chooses to do it. She isn't obligated to.

You guys have trouble with comprehension when it comes to "choice", dontcha now...

what is yor line of work?

 

[squeeze berry]

They need to record the data anyway so what's the big deal record it in a grade book or on a spread sheet.

My god you are a fountain of fucking excuses aren't you?

facts are not excuses

the ponit is that it's not the piece of cake you portray. Have you ever done it?

I have certainly prepared charts and graphs for multiple items and I sure as shit couldn't whine about it to my boss and still have kept the account.

And sorry but teachers, like most people these days think what they do is soooooo hard and soooooo important.

If you want to teach then fine just quit the fucking whining already.

You're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.

actually, it's you that's whining

what is your line of work ?

 

[koshergrl]

Oh stuff it KG.

Go take your evil progressive narrative elsewhere. You aren't even trying to stay on the topic of the thread.

Could have sworn you brought up your sil's choice to outfit her kids with paper and sech.

 

[koshergrl]

She chooses to do it. She isn't obligated to.

You guys have trouble with comprehension when it comes to "choice", dontcha now...

what is yor line of work?

It involves writing narratives, interpreting and applying policy, and interviewing.

I know what "choice" means.

 

[Samson]

where did I say that?

Algebra 2 hasn't changed in 100 years either so teaching that, algebra 1 and geometry shouldn't be too tough

You are right. I've done it, and it is easy.

Most teachers who make teaching hard, bring woe upon themselves. Once you can deal with Other Adults (Parents, other teachers, administrators) the largest problems are resolved.

If anyone wants to know the secret of dealing with this group, I'll summarize with one word: DOCUMENTATION.

Sadly, most teachers are teachers, because they were not the sharpest tools in the shed, and as a result do not possess nearly the mental capacity necessary to optimize a method to document practically every activity they plan to have, nor every activity they have performed. Often you will see these teachers ENFORCING THE RULES. They make up rules as they go along. LOTS of RULES. Then they wonder why everyone is confused by their RULES.

A classroom needs about 5 rules, max. They need to be Writ Large on each wall. They need to be simple, and consistantly enforced, with infractions simply documented on a form with four (4) lines 1. Pupil's Name 2. Date 3. Infraction 4. PHONE NUMBER (have the pupil give this).

Assuming the student gives you the correct number, you call it, and report the infraction to the parent, advising them of the discipline ladder which will require they eventually meet with you, or be inconvenienced to pick their kid up from school, or both.

Obviously, given the wrong number, you'll need to look it up, call, and add giving false information to the infraction.

The whole process takes less than a minute. During September, it happens with some frequency, but by October you have enough documentation to have the most frequent offenders removed from your class most days. Often an administrator will helpfully move the most undesireable student to another teacher's room, where their behavior will not be well documented, thus giving the administrator an excuse to ignore pleas for help.

In what world do you think the rest of us live?

I pretty much believe the rest of you live in a world that doen't extend much farther than your parents' basements.

 

[Samson]

Hell, I could walk into a class and show the same fucking movie for 8 hours during the day,

No you couldn't, in my division you would be fired for dereliction of duty (i.e. for cause). You could appeal the termination, but you'd loose and during the review process you would be on leave without pay.

or I could teach a very focused lesson, test to see if the information was transferred, grade the test, and retest if necessary, or move on.

If teachers only "work" when there are students in the classroom...

1. When are you going to research the material?

2. When are you going to develop the teaching materials?

3. When are you going to write the tests?

4. When are you going to grade the tests?

5. When are you going to input the results into the student information tracking system?

Quantity of time is finite, but is not necessarily the only measure, or even the best measurement of anyone's ability to get the job done.

Nor is saying that teachers only "work" during the time when students are in the classroom a measure of the quality of the job performed.

Teachers work more than 6 hours per day, 180 days per year when the students are in the seats.


>>>>

Its called a "planning period."

Anyway, thanks for not addressing the question regarding the value of QUALITY teaching time. You've made my point for me: teachers, by nature, are often not mentally equipped to optimize their activities to consistantly deliver quality services within the allocated time frame.

And why should they: Who is measuring their productivity?

 

[Skull Pilot]

facts are not excuses

the ponit is that it's not the piece of cake you portray. Have you ever done it?

I have certainly prepared charts and graphs for multiple items and I sure as shit couldn't whine about it to my boss and still have kept the account.

And sorry but teachers, like most people these days think what they do is soooooo hard and soooooo important.

If you want to teach then fine just quit the fucking whining already.

You're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.

actually, it's you that's whining

what is your line of work ?

I own my own business.

And me telling you that teaching is a pretty good part time gig with full time pay and great benefits is what you call whining?

You're the one saying how difficult making all those charts and graphs is not me.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are right. I've done it, and it is easy.

Most teachers who make teaching hard, bring woe upon themselves. Once you can deal with Other Adults (Parents, other teachers, administrators) the largest problems are resolved.

If anyone wants to know the secret of dealing with this group, I'll summarize with one word: DOCUMENTATION.

Sadly, most teachers are teachers, because they were not the sharpest tools in the shed, and as a result do not possess nearly the mental capacity necessary to optimize a method to document practically every activity they plan to have, nor every activity they have performed. Often you will see these teachers ENFORCING THE RULES. They make up rules as they go along. LOTS of RULES. Then they wonder why everyone is confused by their RULES.

A classroom needs about 5 rules, max. They need to be Writ Large on each wall. They need to be simple, and consistantly enforced, with infractions simply documented on a form with four (4) lines 1. Pupil's Name 2. Date 3. Infraction 4. PHONE NUMBER (have the pupil give this).

Assuming the student gives you the correct number, you call it, and report the infraction to the parent, advising them of the discipline ladder which will require they eventually meet with you, or be inconvenienced to pick their kid up from school, or both.

Obviously, given the wrong number, you'll need to look it up, call, and add giving false information to the infraction.

The whole process takes less than a minute. During September, it happens with some frequency, but by October you have enough documentation to have the most frequent offenders removed from your class most days. Often an administrator will helpfully move the most undesireable student to another teacher's room, where their behavior will not be well documented, thus giving the administrator an excuse to ignore pleas for help.

In what world do you think the rest of us live?

I pretty much believe the rest of you live in a world that doen't extend much farther than your parents' basements.

That explains why you think we will believe the shit you are saying. Sadly, for you, we live out here in the real world. You know, the place where teachers are among the brightest people and are more than capable of documenting events.

The place where teachers are required to document just about everything....and are not afforded the leeway to make their own rules......nevermind their own fucking forms.

"Writ large on each wall" ?

Try harder.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Hell, I could walk into a class and show the same fucking movie for 8 hours during the day,

No you couldn't, in my division you would be fired for dereliction of duty (i.e. for cause). You could appeal the termination, but you'd loose and during the review process you would be on leave without pay.



If teachers only "work" when there are students in the classroom...

1. When are you going to research the material?

2. When are you going to develop the teaching materials?

3. When are you going to write the tests?

4. When are you going to grade the tests?

5. When are you going to input the results into the student information tracking system?

Quantity of time is finite, but is not necessarily the only measure, or even the best measurement of anyone's ability to get the job done.

Nor is saying that teachers only "work" during the time when students are in the classroom a measure of the quality of the job performed.

Teachers work more than 6 hours per day, 180 days per year when the students are in the seats.


>>>>

Its called a "planning period."

Anyway, thanks for not addressing the question regarding the value of QUALITY teaching time. You've made my point for me: teachers, by nature, are often not mentally equipped to optimize their activities to consistantly deliver quality services within the allocated time frame.

And why should they: Who is measuring their productivity?

Most Elementary teachers don't have a "planning period" they have their students all day long.

Secondary teachers, have 7 periods per day, at your "6 hours", that's about 45 minutes per period allowing for some time for the students to change classes. Most core classes have 25-30 students per class. That's 150-180 students per day.

So you are going to research, plan, develop materials for 6 different classes (because not all classes progress at the same rate, nor are they the same subject), write tests, grade homework, grade papers, grade tests, review IEP's for mainstreamed special education students, create make-up work and grade make-up work for students on excused absences (required, you can't just blow them off or not provide the marterial - that's a firing offense) AND make phone calls to parents of students who are having difficulties in your class AND have parent conferences.


Wow, we who have been there bow to your superhuman abilities. Maybe you should take the name of "The Flash" and go into crime-fighting.


>>>>

 

[koshergrl]

as usual there is more to it than that.

teachers now must track progress using charts and graphs. grades are no longer good enough.
when half the class is sped there are dozens of students with 10 accomodations each.mmaccomodations. teachers are no longer able to discipline students. sometimes the curriculum changes and you must start from scratch using a new approach. ever try fractiion rap?and if the lazy and stupid kid does not get it, who gets the blame?

in rality most students don't need albrabantway. vocational training is more appropriate. but parents insist their little Einstein will be a brain surgeon in spite of an IQ of 85 and the ambition of a sloth.

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

You should quit. Seriously. I'm sure you're qualified to do something besides changing diapers.

Or maybe not...

 

[koshergrl]

In what world do you think the rest of us live?

I pretty much believe the rest of you live in a world that doen't extend much farther than your parents' basements.

That explains why you think we will believe the shit you are saying. Sadly, for you, we live out here in the real world. You know, the place where teachers are among the brightest people and are more than capable of documenting events.

The place where teachers are required to document just about everything....and are not afforded the leeway to make their own rules......nevermind their own fucking forms.

"Writ large on each wall" ?

Try harder.

Who is "we"?

I'm the mother of 4, 2 grown and two still in school.

I can say with absolute certainty that teachers are NOT the brightest people. They do exist, but they are not, overall, the shiniest tools in the shed.

 

[koshergrl]

Though perhaps it is an inclination to PRETEND they're stupid that makes them appear stupid so often....you know, sort of like possums fake death to cast off pursuit...

 

[LoneLaugher]

I pretty much believe the rest of you live in a world that doen't extend much farther than your parents' basements.

That explains why you think we will believe the shit you are saying. Sadly, for you, we live out here in the real world. You know, the place where teachers are among the brightest people and are more than capable of documenting events.

The place where teachers are required to document just about everything....and are not afforded the leeway to make their own rules......nevermind their own fucking forms.

"Writ large on each wall" ?

Try harder.

Who is "we"?

I'm the mother of 4, 2 grown and two still in school.

I can say with absolute certainty that teachers are NOT the brightest people. They do exist, but they are not, overall, the shiniest tools in the shed.

My condolences.

 

[yidnar]

they only leave in large numbers in certain school districts !! I know several people that stopped teaching and the thing they said drove them away was the lack of discipline in kids today.

 

[Samson]

In what world do you think the rest of us live?

I pretty much believe the rest of you live in a world that doen't extend much farther than your parents' basements.

That explains why you think we will believe the shit you are saying. Sadly, for you, we live out here in the real world. You know, the place where teachers are among the brightest people and are more than capable of documenting events.

The place where teachers are required to document just about everything....and are not afforded the leeway to make their own rules......nevermind their own fucking forms.

"Writ large on each wall" ?

Try harder.

Daily, Teachers are REQUIRED to document nothing except attendance.


Apparently you've never actually taught in a public school.


Teachers can CHOOSE to document "just about everything." Those that do, will be successful. Those that don't end up whining about why they cannot get administrative support and waiting for someone to help them with elementary classroom techniques that seem to escape you, and every other dolt that fabricates an excuse for their own management failures.

 

[Samson]

Though perhaps it is an inclination to PRETEND they're stupid that makes them appear stupid so often....you know, sort of like possums fake death to cast off pursuit...

No.

Smart people do not remain teachers.

 

[Samson]

OOOOH charts and graphs you mean like the kind you can do on a computer in a few seconds

The horror.

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

You should quit. Seriously. I'm sure you're qualified to do something besides changing diapers.

Or maybe not...

Yeah, when data entry becomes a huge obstical, then working the cash register at Micky D's may not be an option.

 

[LoneLaugher]

skullfuck,

it takes longer than that. You need to enter the data fort multiple children.

You should quit. Seriously. I'm sure you're qualified to do something besides changing diapers.

Or maybe not...

Yeah, when data entry becomes a huge obstical, then working the cash register at Micky D's may not be an option.

A huge what?

 

[squeeze berry]

I have certainly prepared charts and graphs for multiple items and I sure as shit couldn't whine about it to my boss and still have kept the account.

And sorry but teachers, like most people these days think what they do is soooooo hard and soooooo important.

If you want to teach then fine just quit the fucking whining already.

You're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.

actually, it's you that's whining

what is your line of work ?

I own my own business.

And me telling you that teaching is a pretty good part time gig with full time pay and great benefits is what you call whining?

You're the one saying how difficult making all those charts and graphs is not me.

there is more to it than what you claim is my point. You speak from ignorance.

I do not believe that I'm under or over paid. Like wise not under worked or overworked.

BTW what is your "business"

perhaps we could demonize those in your line of work.