Why Do Schools Not Give Pragmatic Classes?

[Disir]

There is nothing dishonest in any of this. This is not a right v left issue either. Cyber schools only benefit one type of learner. This information was available prior to utilization of it. Hence, in Colorado they found the drop out rate was exceptionally high and kids were not scoring well on testing. The only thing successful is profit.

I think you understand perfectly what the links show but you don't like it.

Cyber schools aren't for everyone and not all alternative schools are cycber schools. You made a blanket statement, even if the link was true it doesn't help.

The dishonestly is in you spending a few minutes gathering links and expecting others to spend their day reading them. If you want to support your claim, post the relevant passage and the link so we can check for accuracy, the source and context.

Um........you're going to have to read the article to check for accuracy, source and context. But, ya, I'll remember that the next time that you need that. I have already supported my claim.

 

[kiwiman127]

Why Do Schools Not Give Pragmatic Classes?

If the art pragmatic thinking were taught in schools the end result would be the demise of political and religious ideologies. Why?
------------------------------------------------------------
i·de·o·logue /ˈīdēəˌlôg,-ˌläg,ˈidēə-/
noun
noun: ideologue; plural noun: ideologues
1. an adherent of an ideology, esp. one who is uncompromising and dogmatic.
versus
prag·mat·ic adjective \prag-ˈma-tik\
: dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories
------------------------------------------------------

So boards like this would have a total different format as it wouldn't be the battle of the ideologies, it instead would be the battle of individual's critical thinking. This would mirror the way Washington would work, no political posturing, no group thought and less outside interests effecting policy but instead we'd have critical thinking on each issue. That's the way things should be.

 

[Iceweasel]

Um........you're going to have to read the article to check for accuracy, source and context. But, ya, I'll remember that the next time that you need that. I have already supported my claim.

Um, yes remember that next time. Posting links is physical and intellectual lazy thing to do. This isn't public ed, no one is going to do your homework for you.

 

[peach174]

Schools have taken out how to think and are teaching the students how to memorize information given to them..
Differences Between Analytical & Critical Thinking
By Kyra Sheahan, eHow Contributor
Differences Between Analytical & Critical Thinking | eHow

Differences Between Analytical & Critical Thinking

Analytical thinking can help you problem-solve issues in your life.

Any time you read literary materials or experience something that requires you to comprehend it, you employ a variety of thinking skills. Thinking skills relate to the way in which you process and understand information, and you employ specific thinking skills based on what you wish to gain from your thoughts. Analytical and critical thinking are two styles of thinking skills that are commonly used, but employed for different purposes.


What Are Analytical Skills Used For?
How to Develop Analytical Skills
Analytical Thinking

Analytical thinking describes a thinking style that enables a person to break down complex information or a series of comprehensive data. It uses a step-by-step method to analyze a problem and then come to an answer or solution. In essence, analytical thinking represents a cause and effect style of looking at a problem, and is sometimes referred to as perceiving something through multiple lenses. An example of analytical thinking involves understanding the relationship between leaves and the color green. One could ask "Why are leaves green?" and then use analytical thinking skills to tie the answer together.


Critical Thinking

Critical thinking has to do with evaluating information that is fed to you, and determining how to interpret it, what to believe and whether something appears to be right or wrong. In this style of thinking the thinker employs reasoning to come to a conclusion about how he wants to perceive the information. Critical thinking also takes outside information into account during the thought process. Rather than sticking strictly with the information presented, critical thinking lets the thinker explore other elements that could be of influence.

Analytical and critical thinking styles both look at facts, but those facts are then used for different purposes. When it comes to analytical thinking, facts are used to build on information and support evidence that leads to a logical conclusion. Critical thinking, on the other hand, uses facts to determine a belief, form an opinion or decide whether something makes sense.

Process

The processes of analytical thinking and critical thinking are different. Analytical thinking uses a linear and focused process, with one thought following the other in a stream-like formation. Critical thinking occurs more in circles and can go around and around until a conclusion is stumbled upon.


Purpose

The purposes of critical thinking and analytical thinking are not the same. You do not employ critical thinking strategies to figure out the solution to a complex question or to problem-solve. Rather, analytical thinking is used for this purpose. However, you would not use analytical thinking if your main goal was to come up with a belief or perception about something. In this case, you would use critical thinking methods.



You have a ball and a bat.
Together it costs 1.10.
If the bat costs one dollar more than the ball,
How much is the ball?
Most people get this wrong.

 

[Iceweasel]

You have a ball and a bat.
Together it costs 1.10.
If the bat costs one dollar more than the ball,
How much is the ball?
Most people get this wrong.

What is the tax rate?

 

[Disir]

Um........you're going to have to read the article to check for accuracy, source and context. But, ya, I'll remember that the next time that you need that. I have already supported my claim.

Um, yes remember that next time. Posting links is physical and intellectual lazy thing to do. This isn't public ed, no one is going to do your homework for you.

Wrong. Listen, when I asked you I was dead serious. I would love to read anything that you have on the issue.

You turned around and stated this: We have cyber schools here working in conjunction with parents, kids and the state and the trend is growing as they are very sucessful.

So, ya, you should probably not even touch intellectually lazy. Thanks.

Posting links is backing up statements. You have been provided studies and scams. Unfortunately, you would like to play this game rather than contend with the issue. I do not recognize you as an authority.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wrong. Listen, when I asked you I was dead serious. I would love to read anything that you have on the issue.

You mean my report to congress?

You turned around and stated this: We have cyber schools here working in conjunction with parents, kids and the state and the trend is growing as they are very sucessful.

So, ya, you should probably not even touch intellectually lazy. Thanks.

I'm still waiting for you to make sense of the Colorado link. Or shift to another one. Just post the relevant portion so we know what your specific point is. I have stated my personal experience, worked for a e-school/home school and have a new one going up right near my home. I have friends ready to retire from public-ed and speak highly of them. I trust them more than you, sorry.

How is that not relevant to counter your Colorado failure? Clearly it is NOT a universal trend.

Posting links is backing up statements. You have been provided studies and scams. Unfortunately, you would like to play this game rather than contend with the issue. I do not recognize you as an authority.

I haven't posted a link, how can I have posted studies and scams? Posting links is sloppy and lazy. It's similar to telling people "go read a book". Give us your best case and we'll look at it.

This is about critical thinking so it'll be a good test. Remember, you said

"If this was true then charter schools and even online education would produce far better results. Unfortunately, they do not. In fact, what we are finding is that the Choice meme is more often than not linked to theft of tax payers dollars.

...a rather bold statement. Theft is a crime. 'More often than not' needs more than one or a few examples.

 

[peach174]

You have a ball and a bat.
Together it costs 1.10.
If the bat costs one dollar more than the ball,
How much is the ball?
Most people get this wrong.

What is the tax rate?

Price is before the tax.


Most people answer this question that the ball costs 10 cents.
That is the wrong answer.
The ball costs 5 cents.

 

[Spiderman]

I would like to see HS graduates actually be prepared to function in the world.

As it is today American HS grads are woefully ill prepared to do so.

I agree, however the vast majority of the problem is bad parenting and single parenting. (not saying they are one in the same)
Not to step on toes, but there is no doubt that especially boys raised with just a mother is a BIG problem. BIG problem.

I can't speak to that statement.

I lost both parents at age 10. i had to learn to take care of myself fast. At 17 I was granted emancipated minor status.

 

[eflatminor]

Why Do Schools Not Give Pragmatic Classes?

Whatever it is you dislike about schools, it is because we allow governments to run a monopoly on the market for affordable education. Funding education for everyone is one thing, but RUNNING each and every school, from what's in the text books to how many tater tots are served at lunch is the problem. Get the various governments out of the education business you'd have the CHOICE to pick a school the teaches pragmatic classes.

Until then, we will continue to spend more per student than nearly any country in the world while producing ever poorer results. It's our choice.

If this was true then charter schools and even online education would produce far better results. Unfortunately, they do not. In fact, what we are finding is that the Choice meme is more often than not linked to theft of tax payers dollars.

Respectfully disagree. You're misunderstand what a charter school is. Charter schools are not even close to a the choice and customer control that a free market for education would offer. Charters, like regular public schools, are theft of taxpayer dollars, monopolistic control of affordable education by government...and the both produce universally crappy results.

Look to private schools were the rich enjoy CHOICE and the ability to vote with their dollar. If a rich family values certain things in an education, they can choose the school that meets their needs. Other families can choose differently. But when it comes to affordable education, whether public or charter, the governments have a monopoly. And with such government control, we always get lousy results. Perhaps Carolyn Lochhead said it best:

"Public educators, like Soviet farmers, lack any incentive to produce results, innovate, to be efficient, to make the kinds of of difficult changes that private firms operating in a competitive market must make to survive."

I'm okay with taxing people at the state level (NOT the Federal level) to help everyone pay for an education...but there is NO WAY we should allow government to actually run the schools or dictate how someone else runs the schools through charters. Again, we pay more per student than any other country and still produce lousy results. There is a better way and that way is consumer choice.

 

[House]

Modern public education emphasizes self esteem and the collective mindset over scholastics. I've done numerous projects for various schools locally and I was at first amazed at how inarticulate the educators were. Many, including principles, could barely put a coherant sentence together, let alone a complete concise train of thought.

How could they teach critical anaysis when they don't posses the tools themselves?

Their curriculm often focuses on the correct way to think (group think, very politicaly correct) self worth and value to the community. What ever happened to the three Rs?
They are union managed with little consideration to outcome. Much of what they teach are outright lies. Lincoln's religion is 'liberal' really? Reagan presided over the worse economic collapse in 40 years so supply side economics was abandoned, really?

They don't care what the truth is, or teaching little Johnny how to process information on his own, it's all about the agenda.

Can you back that up with anything?

I don't need your approval.

Odd that you would say that with no support.

Context be damned, I lol'ed.

 

[midcan5]

Huh? You have to be kidding. What is critical thinking? Is it scientific, if so can you imagine the scientific method being taught? Parents would be in a uproar the first time little Joanie asked her parents for proof.

That feeds into the sheeple way of thinking. "Oh, somebody with authority said so, so it must be true by virtue of their position over me. Nevermind that they have no experience or formal training on the subject."

God forbid that papa actually tells Johnny why instead of, "Because I said so!". He might actually learn something... can't have that!


^ And I wrote this post as a parent.

And I as a grandparent, guess what, you are not everyone.

 

[House]

Huh? You have to be kidding. What is critical thinking? Is it scientific, if so can you imagine the scientific method being taught? Parents would be in a uproar the first time little Joanie asked her parents for proof.

That feeds into the sheeple way of thinking. "Oh, somebody with authority said so, so it must be true by virtue of their position over me. Nevermind that they have no experience or formal training on the subject."

God forbid that papa actually tells Johnny why instead of, "Because I said so!". He might actually learn something... can't have that!


^ And I wrote this post as a parent.

And I as a grandparent, guess what, you are not everyone.

Nor are you, as your own post quite eloquently illustrates. Are you done being petty, now?

 

[Iceweasel]

Context be damned, I lol'ed.

Did you understand anything while you were loling? I based my comments on personal experience. He claimed theft and money losses. That requires more than anecdotal accounts. Get it, or do we need a chalk board?

 

[House]

Context be damned, I lol'ed.

Did you understand anything while you were loling? I based my comments on personal experience. He claimed theft and money losses. That requires more than anecdotal accounts. Get it, or do we need a chalk board?

 

[Sunshine]

For example, teaching children to think critically. Instead of teaching children how to think, teachers are just interested in having the children memorize dry facts that mean absolutely nothing and will be forgotten about before the next report card.

If children were taught how to think instead of what to think, and graded on the reliability of their sources instead of how well they could memorize words from a chalk board, we wouldn't have a nation of sheep.

Instead, Critical Thinking is relegated to an elective at the college level.

Along the same vein (and after a class on Critical Thinking), schools should focus on Current Events, to raise awareness of and interest in what's happening around the city, state, country, and world. Then we'd have more voters that were prepared for the polls when they turned 18.

I also think schools should be more proactive about teaching healthy parenting habits, because the reality is, most students will wind up parents sooner rather than later.

I think they should be teaching financial management, Dave Ramsey style.

 

[House]

For example, teaching children to think critically. Instead of teaching children how to think, teachers are just interested in having the children memorize dry facts that mean absolutely nothing and will be forgotten about before the next report card.

If children were taught how to think instead of what to think, and graded on the reliability of their sources instead of how well they could memorize words from a chalk board, we wouldn't have a nation of sheep.

Instead, Critical Thinking is relegated to an elective at the college level.

Along the same vein (and after a class on Critical Thinking), schools should focus on Current Events, to raise awareness of and interest in what's happening around the city, state, country, and world. Then we'd have more voters that were prepared for the polls when they turned 18.

I also think schools should be more proactive about teaching healthy parenting habits, because the reality is, most students will wind up parents sooner rather than later.

I think they should be teaching financial management, Dave Ramsey style.

Agreed, or at the very least, budgeting.

 

[Disir]

Wrong. Listen, when I asked you I was dead serious. I would love to read anything that you have on the issue.

You mean my report to congress?

You turned around and stated this: We have cyber schools here working in conjunction with parents, kids and the state and the trend is growing as they are very sucessful.

So, ya, you should probably not even touch intellectually lazy. Thanks.

I'm still waiting for you to make sense of the Colorado link. Or shift to another one. Just post the relevant portion so we know what your specific point is. I have stated my personal experience, worked for a e-school/home school and have a new one going up right near my home. I have friends ready to retire from public-ed and speak highly of them. I trust them more than you, sorry.

How is that not relevant to counter your Colorado failure? Clearly it is NOT a universal trend.

Posting links is backing up statements. You have been provided studies and scams. Unfortunately, you would like to play this game rather than contend with the issue. I do not recognize you as an authority.

I haven't posted a link, how can I have posted studies and scams? Posting links is sloppy and lazy. It's similar to telling people "go read a book". Give us your best case and we'll look at it.

This is about critical thinking so it'll be a good test. Remember, you said

"If this was true then charter schools and even online education would produce far better results. Unfortunately, they do not. In fact, what we are finding is that the Choice meme is more often than not linked to theft of tax payers dollars.

...a rather bold statement. Theft is a crime. 'More often than not' needs more than one or a few examples.

I repeat: You have been provided studies and scams. Further, I am a she.

 

[Agit8r]

Seems that they taught critical thinking when I was in school, or at least tried to. I wonder if it is something that can be taught effectively. Worth trying, I suppose.

That said, I think that having knowledge is an essential prerequisite to thinking critically

 

[Luddly Neddite]

GOP Opposes Critical Thinking: Party platform paints original ideas as a liberal conspiracy - News - The Austin Chronicle

Party platform paints original ideas as a liberal conspiracy

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."